So apparently, Wraith becomes viable and people are already complaining

You don't want to reduce things to sides yet you do just that.

The thread is talking about why people are saying wraith is unfun and why people are complaining, so I gave an anecdote based on my personal experiences as to why that might be.

Also, I never even said bamboozle was meta, I said it was annoying and not fun to go against when paired with Wraith's mobility and addons and that lots of wraiths are running it (Which they are)

Actually baffled that you take someone's personal opinion and try to discount it as 'survivor sided comment'.

I don't see how it's survivor sided to criticise a style of gameplay that I don't find enjoyable.

Again I didn't at all say the strat wasn't effective or time efficient, that wasn't the point of my post.

I provided a reason why people think it's frustrating and/or boring. I also mentioned the problem of overexposure where you keep facing the same thing over and over again which in wraith's case applies to me personally given how on some days like 50% of my games are vs a wraith doing the stuff I mentioned previously

Come on wraith was never weak, many just didn't know how to play him.

I never ran windstorm ever and almost all of my games were 3 or 4k as rank 1.

I got messages saying they had little change and I was always on top of them.

Others then again reported me of hacking because they didn't win 🤷‍♂️

If you knew how to play him before his buff than you could do so serious damage, even against some very strong and well coordinated swf.

But yeah people always find something to complain about, especially when they make a killer or buff one to become more viable.

Then all of a sudden it is unfun or OP

Not even close to op. He has moved up a tier or so but not to nurse and spirit level etc. Survivors please stop Complaining when we get good stuff on killer side.

He is in a good spot now. We like him having a good buff and it's making me liking it. He's like a good killer to play against.

Honestly, I think the lunge buff was completely unneeded after making windstorm base kit. Been playing him a lot recently and running MYC with Dragons Grip, BBQ, POP, Clapper and Swift hunt is absurd in terms of snowball potential. His addons either need a rework or the lunge needs a tweak. I know someone's going to say "JuSt PlAy ArOuNd WiNdOwS!" but with how many maps have generators in complete deadzones that simply isn't always an option. Being exposed when there's only unsafe pallets around against a killer who excels in getting the opening hit isn't a great experience.

You can only be running Spine Chill by chance because you don't know you're facing a Wraith when you pick your build. And even then it can be countered by just angling your camera when approaching a gen.

Wraith was one of the few killers who was a threat to survivors choosing not to heal and that's has been alleviated more. And the map is often a make of break for how threating he can be.

You can make a killer stronger in any number of ways. Many of those will not be fun to play as, against, or both. Wraith is not fun to play against in his current state. Calling that out does not mean that you want Wraith to be bad; it's just an opinion about his current state. I think he needed some buffs, but I think what he got was too much.

I would keep the quieter footsteps/snarl, the true invisibility at long range, and the less complete decloaking when interacting with gens and such. I would reduce the speed boost while cloaked to ~135% (roughly old yellow windstorm territory instead of the old purple windstorm). I would also rework his decloaking speed mechanic. Instead of slowing down to a crawl and then speeding him up hugely for 1.25 seconds, I would smooth that out; increased movement speed while decloaking (think maybe 90% instead of the 40% it is now) but also no mega lunge on the other side. That means greater ability to bodyblock while decloaking but also less spamming the lunge in smaller loops. The fewer attacks in this game move at high speed, the better imo; as is killers like Wraith can get some disgusting and tilting hits through pallets and windows.

I don't agree with the whole "survivor bad killer good" stereotype. In fact, I think it's immature, and that both sides have their "bad sides."

You're allowed to have your own opinion on Wraith, so yeah that's fine. Although as surv you need to learn how to loop to get the most out of your chases. There are many great guides out there on how to loop as surv on YouTube.

The game doesn´t consist in running in circles.

Good thing I didn't say that

So how did you do this with old wraith where he ran windstorm add on? 🤔

Again, all I said was bamboozle on wraith is annoying because of his high mobility and addons that let him vault basically instantly

I don't see how that's me going "yeah the game needs to be nothing but running in circles"

Sorry, but this is a profoundly simple understanding of why survivors have grievances with those killers. Seeing every critique being reduced down to "survivor cant loop therefore complain" is a boring and tired trope that needs to die it's long overdue death.

• Spirit is rightfully complained about because there is no indication of when she's phasing. You have no meaningful interaction beyond a complete guess and hoping the killer doesn't have decent sound. No, the shards on her lighting up is not good enough because A) you have been really close to even see it at which point it's gg and B) a lot of her cosmetics completely obscure them. Stridor doesn't need commenting on for obvious reasons.
• Nurse is complained about (albeit far less due to how little she's played) because her power fundamentally breaks the game. Anyone who can line up their blinks or rarely misses will steamroll all but the top teams easily. Even then it's still heavily weighted in the nurses favour due to the fact that teleporting in a game like DBD can never be properly balanced.
• Deathslinger's main complaint is that he get's free zoning from just existing. I only have to start spamming M2 for the survivor to instantly lose distance as they can't be sure if I'll take the shot. Sure, he lacks map pressure in terms of mobility but below a certain range the survivor isn't going to be able to react to a quickscope. I've played FPS games for years, landing shots at medium and below range isn't that difficult. The only real counterplay (assuming you aren't at a high wall loop or LOS blocking) is to pre-drop pallets, a number of which you can pull the survivor around anyway and still get them with the lunge.
• Pyramid Head was for the lose-lose situation and the fact that his cages actively encouraged tunnelling someone out (since they bypass DS / BT - not sure if they still do). Since he was adjusted I've not seen people complain about him, yet he's still rightfully regarded as an A tier killer.
• Hag - Nothing to do with her "chase", it's the incredible camping power she has due to the rescuer and rescued having to crouch away without risking setting off the trap. Binding teleport to mouse wheel and instant swinging makes reacting to her difficult (assuming you know where the trap is to bait it in the first place). Sure, you can harass a hag early or use flashlights (assuming you have them) but most players, particularly solo's, do not have the coordination or luxury to spend all game activating her traps and managing to avoid the potential instant teleport swing. It's only due to how rare she is that people haven't brought this up more.
• Freddy - He literally has a multitude of powers, none of which he has to work for. Not withstanding the slowdown addons which were a relic of the past, he suffered no drawback for spamming his snares, doesn't have to do anything to make survivors fall asleep and has incredible map pressure when paired with tinkerer/ruin/pop. His power actively bypassed pre-buffed BT, currently still makes it hard at times to discern where he's approaching from due to the oblivious effect and doubles the time required woken up by another survivor. Yes, the clocks now are more powerful against him now but you still have to spend time traversing the map. As I said, he still has a significant toolkit which requires him to do absolutely nothing. The nerfs were fully justified considering how easy he is to use.

Apologies if any of that comes across rude, just tired of the disingenuous takes people have on here at times.

I have been playing hit and run style wraith a lot. It's funny that survivors complain abaut it when they have been preaching for years that "just chase someone else" and now they are literally saying that i should commit to the chase if survivor reaches strong loop like jungle gym window chained next to a shack? I don't think so. I get hit, break pallet or two and switch target depending on the situation.

That's... literally how people played Wraith to begin with.

He is only disliked now, because its harder to loop round the same pallet multiple times, because he will just swat the hell out of you before you have time to react to the drop pallet button lol