The new auto-ban system is going to outright kill the game if pushed to live.
Full-stop, do some simple math people, there are 4 survivors for every 1 killer. That means there is going to be a 4:1 ratio of reports going one direction. There is absolutely 0 repercussions for false reporting in this game and now that this new "auto-ban" system operates off of point based system there is going to be rampant abuse.
Just think about this logically for a moment, the entire reason they stated they are going to add this new system is to help the deal with the immense influx of reports that is causing them to overlook legitimate hackers. This assertion is very telling, there are only few valid real reasons to report someone.
Here is a link to their actual reportable offenses list.
If you take the time to actually read what they allow you to report there are very few actual reportable offenses. This either means the anti-cheat / chat filter is so utter garbage as to allow literally any hack to be used freely without detection or anything be said without filtering that they're support services are being overloaded by the frequency of valid reports OR and I think we all know the actual answer here, the vast majority of reports are false/invalid ones filed out of spite or pettiness.
In our current system, due to all of these false reports legitimate hackers get away with cheating for months before they get banned due to their human support team have to manually sift through all of these false spite reports. This leads to a worse experience for everyone but thankfully this also means the vast majority of false reports are simply thrown out and the targeted individual isn't getting banned. nor should they, no one should be banned if they haven't broken the rules.
This is not how this new system is going to work, it is going to be a point based system that automatically bans anyone who gets reported enough within a certain time period, valid or not. This is obviously extremely prone to abuse and will only serve to thrust the burden of proof from the support team to that of the individual, something that is nearly impossible for the average user. If you get banned falsely there is a VERY high likelihood you lose everything, all the time spent, all the money spent, all because someone decided to be spiteful.
THIS NEW SYSTEM IS A TERRIBLE IDEA IN EVERY POSSIBLE WAY AND IS GOING TO KILL THE GAME IF LEFT AS IS, if killers start getting banned falsely for literally any reason, the que times for survivors are going to skyrocket in time. This is going to lead to people being more irritated at how long they had to wait for a match and lead to even more false report the next killer they get paired up with for literally any inconvenience.
This is a cyclical recursive loop of bullshit waiting to happen, please BHVR, I know it's hard for you, but think, PLEASE.
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Autoban system? what
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It was discussed in their stream today,
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bruh moment that ######### will kill the game
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Correct
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Like I can't believe that was all the info we got from it. Get a certain number of reports against you then you get auto-banned.
It's actually very concerning they thought that summary of it would be sufficient and not worry anyone.
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I just can't believe someone even gave the green light for something like this, they HAVE TO KNOW the VAST majority of reports are false, it's the entire reason they're implementing this new system, but if they KNOW the VAST majority of them are FALSE REPORTS. Then that begs the question why are they implementing a new system THIS RIPE FOR ABUSE?
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
We should wait for more information. I can't believe we could be banned if we got X amount of reports... What about people who play Spirit, for instance? I'm sure they have hundred of reports because they played with Stridor. Or what about a Survivor who escapes without saving a teammate? It's selfish, but it's the game, you have the choice of being altruistic or thinking about yourself only. What if they do that every single game and their teammates are upset and report each time?
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Considering how horribly their automated chat filter works, I have no faith in any kind of automated ban system.
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Yeah if they really do plan on having more information about this auto-ban system they should have not mentioned this system anyway until they were ready to give us the details. This announcement is a big headache.
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They haven't released all the details yet, and I'm certain that the idea of this system being abused has crossed their minds and it won't be nearly as simple as pressing a button. They probably will require evidence
Also, when the complaint is generated the details of the reporter are also available. It seems obvious to me if the same person starts sending tons of reports and complaints that this will qlso be picked up on and noticed.
It's best to wait until more details emerge before hitting the Caps Lock button.
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Where did you get the information about false reports not having consequeces with the new ban system enabled? I would like a source, plz.
Also, i only play solo survivor, and while i dont like tunneling and camping for no reason (yes, there are valid applications) i think its still legit.
I meet toxic survivors way more often than toxic killers, and i always call them out, and i would report them as well. How does that translate to your 4:1 ratio?
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We don't have all the infos yet, there will probably be a week of test.
And with the report system counting for 1 maybe +rep will actually counter balance it by counting for +5 ?
Yeah with so little informations, it is scary to think that playing killer could get you ban. But we have to wait for more infos before shooting at them ^^
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"Also, i only play solo survivor, and while i dont like tunneling and camping for no reason (yes, there are valid applications) i think its still legit."
You, this comment right here, perfectly encapsulates why this new system is going to rampantly abused. I LITERALLY LINKED YOU DIRECTLY TO BHVR'S OFFICIAL REPORT GUIDELINES PAGE and you still think filing a report for someone camping and or tunneling you is a valid reason to report. It isn't, it never has been and it NEVER WILL BE A VALID REPORT. making these false reports only serves to bloat the system.
Since you were apparently too lazy to click on the DIRECT link provided, ill just drop this snip-it here for you.
Discarded reports reasons
THE FOLLOWING ARE NOT CONSIDERED BANNABLE OFFENSES - PLEASE DO NOT REPORT
- Camping
- Slugging
- Tunneling
- Streamsniping
- Teabagging
- Bodyblocking
- Looping
This is why we can't have nice things people, people either can't or willingly don't read.
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The system is automated, there is no one involved who could check if a report is legit or not. If you need humans to check for false reports then that defeats the purpose of an auto-ban system.
That's why it seems like there will be no consequences for false reports.
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Good that people are so nice in these games and won't report you just for losing, or not giving hatch, or hitting that hatchet because a bug you couldn't do anything about or or or
Good luck for those people still playing this mess!
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How about you stop and think about how intelligent someone has to be to get a job developing as successful a venture as Dead By Daylight and compare that to the level of sheer idiocy you are implying they possess?
No team this damn successful is ever going to be that stupid as to implement a system that kills their game in a matter of days. That's not ever how it's going to work. The entire point of Dead by Daylight, and every other game any of us have played, is to pump money out of the wallets of its playerbase, and like all successful games it has a team of extremely cunning and manipulative people directing it. Now, whatever your views on the predatory nature of capitalism, you have to admit that the likelihood of a team of professional game developers working in the multiplayer industry and reading (if not interacting with) various forums and communities, let alone the reports and complaints they receive, to take their cash cow out back and slit its proverbial throat with a proverbial blunt and rusted saw whilst chanting "be reborn my child", is so bloody slim that to even mention it is like mentioning you're going to win the lottery.
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I'm just going to say, in general, a developer is only as dumb or smart as their users allow them to be. These are the same devs who had to disable their leaver penalty 3 times since someone was able to abuse it to ban whoever they wanted for however long they wanted. This system is going to be abused either naturally with how salty and report happy this community is, or unnaturally through some sort of exploit, which I would hope would be reversed when it happens, but there is no guarantee any false bans will be reversed. I will say everyone should voice their obvious concerns in general, but until the devs give more info on how it will work, we can only speculate based on other games implementations. All I'll say is I hope they don't make a whitelist so that they can see it being publicly abused when streamers like tru3 get targeted first like on the leaver penalties.
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There is a massive, massive difference between a faulty penalty system that lets hackers abuse it, and a system that lets everyone ban everyone. One of them is an oversight mixed with outside malice, the other is ######### career suicide.
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I think they were just saying the tactics are legit and non-reportable, but could be used as a report reason with an auto-ban system.
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Riiight, the same developers whose chat filter banned words like “Myers” and “teabag”, whose MMR system paired 1000 hour players against players with less than 1 hour playtime, whose disconnect penalty could be weaponised to give people 72 hour bans just because, and who used to have unencrypted log files that could be read by literally anyone to give survivors a heads up on the killer they were about to face. These developers would never introduce a new automated system that could be flawed or open to abuse.
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How is it so hard to understand the massive difference in severity between those things? Please, I'm genuinely asking, I have no clue how anyone could possibly think relatively minor glitches that barely impact the overall game are in any way similar to something that would block the significant majority of the playerbase from playing the game.
You're comparing a papercut to a beheading simply because they both involve sharp objects. It makes no sense.
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Yes, but it does not make them perfect.
Remember, we are talking about people who, despite being extremely competent and capable, made several bad decisions throughout the years, with balance related stuff standing proudly on top of the list.
While this is much more severe than balance, it is entirely possible for it to happen and countless innocent players might lose their accounts. That is why everyone has been so vocal about it.
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Someone being banned from playing the game due to an abusable DC ban system is less severe than someone being banned from playing the game due to an abusable reporting system? I really don’t see your logic there. I also didn’t consider the first rollout of MMR a “minor glitch that barely impacted the game” personally, it made my matches absolutely godawful and I stopped playing until they turned it off.
I’m all for giving the devs the benefit of the doubt when it comes to stuff like perk changes and new content, but they have a bad track record with stuff like this. Why would you trust them to implement a flawless system when they have literally never introduced a new system like this that didn’t have huge, glaring flaws right out of the gate? Can you give an example of the devs implementing something new like this that just worked as intended? I can’t think of a single example.
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Once again, that comparison is nonsensical.
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So you see no difference between the Devs overlooking a way a hacker can exploit a game, and the literal end of DbD?
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I think that the devs are very talented and obviously very intelligent people, but I also think that their track record shows that they often implement things into the game with major flaws. Obviously there’s a difference between flawed disconnect penalty system and an automated ban system that would ban everyone eventually, but it doesn’t need to ban everyone eventually for it to be a bad thing for the game. Even a small percentage of undeserved bans would have a very negative effect on the game. This is what people are concerned about.
Are there any automated ban systems in existence that don’t ban people in error? Will the DBD devs be able to invent the very first example of one? I find it unlikely.
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The problem with this auto ban system is not that there's an amplification issue of 4:1 (as you pointed out). Devs could mitigate that, by adjusting the threshold that initiates a ban (or even have a more complicated formula that e.g. weakens reports of people that belong to the same SWF, etc. .... lots of possibilites).
The real problem is, that the majority of people (which is also a majority of those that raise reports) just doesn't know what's a bannable offense and what is not. And that, in itself is a huge problem, if reports will not be double-checked by a neutral instance that actually does know the rules (a human) and what's a bannable offense. Everything will probably be based on the accuracy and truthfulness of the reporters, because they (BHVR) probably won't create a "machine" that will check video evidence.
All this reminds me of that expression "May you live in interesting times" ...
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You still gave no source for you "knowledge".
Is the entire process automated, or just parts of it? Is there a way to conquer that decision? Is a ban decicion supervised by a service member?
Is the reason for the report validated? Is there a certain requirement for a report, due to giving a reason for example? does reporting a dozen people maybe lead to an investigation about the reporter?
I dont know any of those, but you seem to know that the system will function in exactly one way. Thats why i want a source, which you keep to yourself. Unless there is no source, and you are just uttering your opinion with no fondation in reality whatsoever. But who would do something that stupid, like propagating an example with no knowledge what will actually happen.
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I think you should exclude the matchmaking here, because that is actually intentional, to minimize queue times. Its - in my opinion - the wrong approach to prioritize waiting times over fair matches, but it is simply a path chosen.
And wile i totaly belive it might be flawed and possibly open to abuse, since i at least have no knowledge what they actually plan, i dont know in which way it might or might not happen. And those that claim to know dont share their knowledge.
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I’m not talking about the standard matchmaking that has to balance between fair matches and quick lobbies. I’m talking about the MMR system they implemented briefly last year.
The devs said that the MMR system had been gathering data in the background which would allow for fair and balanced matches, and then when it launched it put me in lobbies, as a rank 1 player with 1000+ hours, with and against players who had literally bought the game that day. It was awful and much, much worse and more unbalanced than the system that’s in place now. In fact it was so bad that they turned it off and over a year later, it’s still not in place.
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Again, what do you think is fair and balanced? Because during the last tests they did, i had the same experience. but it might be intentionally.
Because they think a match with 2 kills and 2 escapes are the most balanced. So, if you get a killer with 2 survivors above his skill level, and 2 survivors below that, it is not an unlikly scenario that he kills the lower survivors and the other 2 escapes, leading to a "balanced" matchup result.
So while i would like a match where all others survivors are on my skill level and it cant be predicted if its a 4 escape or a 4 kill or anything in between, it might not be what the devs aim for. They said several times that the new system is good at predicting the end result of a match. If it can do that, for what result should it aim?
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Everyone start writing your wills.
We're going off the deep end.
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Bruh the game is 6 years old and now they're worried about censorship and bans?
Chill Behavior its not that deep
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