So this update seems to be pretty anti ruin.
Im not saying thats a bad thing I always found ruin too rng reliant for my tastes but we got 2 survivor perks which excell against ruin. I know the flashbangs arent that strong but I mean its still a bunch of flashbangs. Also they added a perk that sends totems to the shadow realm.
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It's not anti ruin, it's anti killer. They even called Moris toxic and gave survivors instant blinds. Let alone the new map is huge so if two survivors feel like holding the game hostage and hiding forever you can say hi to DCing after 40 minutes.
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survivor totem perks have never really been an issue with me, it's rather the spots that they spawn in. If totems spots weren't as rng I think that undying wouldn't be as necessary to run.
On the newer maps they do a good job with hiding totems, just look at Dead Dawg, but on the three starting maps there are numerous occasions where totems are in the middle of the field willing to be cleansed.
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Killers have been underperforming lately, so we gave Survivors two insta-blind and anti-totem perks.
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Name checks out
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The new totem perk, while nice, won't kill off totems more than Small Game will. It's just a new perk to do the same thing.
You can argue that it increases totem cleansing speeds, and shows the aura of the furthest totem to promote clearing. But you have to remember that you still need to go through the following steps to make use of it:
- Step 1: find that first totem (time waste)
- Step 2: run across the map for the next totem (time waste)
- Step 3: look in the general area where you saw the totem from across the map to actually find it (time waste).
This is all assuming that no one cleanses the totem you see either, in which case you still waste time on step 2/3 before realizing it's gone and going back to step 1.
The amount of additional time wasted to use this perk should offset the improved cleansing speed it provides.
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In contrast, Small Game is much easier to use.
Every map has totems spawn in different quadrants of the map. Simply go to each quadrant in sequence, and use the indicator to find it - done. You also know when some/all totems are cleansed, and when each quadrant is cleared.
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I thought you guys wanted survivors to do totems.
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Tbh I dont mind and hey its kinda a buff to haunted retribution :D
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But then you can better coordinate with your teammates if you're in a SWF. You can then afford to have that one person go off on their totem cleansing adventure.
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Honestly, just run both. That's what scares me. (Killer main fear post) I Honestly think that perk is the strongest out of the whole bunch, even Leon's healing perk doesn't seem to strike as OP compared to this. Now, I could be 100% wrong and reading it on paper makes it scary compared to practicality. But, it just seems like combining the two perks with a swf completely nulls a mechanic for killers. Grant it, I'm not able to play the PTB, but from what I experienced in red ranks and the likes, it definitely seems like that combo can shut off things completely. Either that or Detective's Hunch with super totem cleanser. Apologies if this seems like a rant, it's not supposed to be. But, to me that's the only thing that seems pretty worrisome.
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I don't really mind. Ruin is such a toss a coin it either last until mid game or get destroyed in seconds. Hex perks are no longer a choice even before this. Corrupt its better and if you play survivor you can see its pupularity growing.. I hope that the devs don't nerf corrupt now lol.
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It's okay, I imagine a SWF conversation using the new totem perk to go something like this:
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Bea: "Hey Marik!"
Marik: "Wazzzzuuupp!?"
Bea: "There's a totem on the other side of the map from me. Go get it"
Marik: "The heck does that mean - where are you?"
Bea: "Killer shack"
Marik: "So... you want me to find something on the opposite side of the map of the killer shack."
Bea: "Yeah, I think you're closer. It looks to be around that giant barn you said you're at"
Marik: "Oh okay. Is it a hex totem? Where exactly is it?"
Bea: "I dunno, hard to describe too"
Marik: "So... you want me to hunt for a potentially worthless totem using a vague description that you barely got from across the map in hopes that I find it and cleanse it for some reason?"
Bea: "Yeah, now shuddap and go"
Marik: "Ignoring the fact it could just be a useless dull totem, wont your perk also be useless then since you can't see any other totems? "
Bea: "I SAID SHUDDAP AND GO"
Marik: "..."
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Just replace ruin with haunted grounds, if it's ever used frequently.
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The flashbangs have a hefty requirement to even receive one and its only a firecracker but changed to look like a flashbang. A survivor cannot throw it. They just drop like firecrackers and hiss just like one also.
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nuh uhh as all killer mains know this is SWF commes
Marik: Bravo this is Alpha
Bea: Roger that
Marik: Totem is located in B6 F3
Bea: Copy that cleansing
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Yep I wonder if this will see a rise in Surge. Simalar to ruin its kinda a mass regression perk where it can regress multiple gens so maybe people will run it instead.
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So are we suddenly pretending firecrackers are top tier or something? They've ALWAYS been a complete joke. Calling it something else doesn't change the fact that they're still bad.
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Look at the name and its a new account. I am not taking them seriously tbh.
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Flash grenades are way faster and less obvious than firecrackers.
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What does flashbang have to do with Ruin?
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There is no cap on the amount of firecrackers you get so you can just repair a gen get one then f the killer pushes you off when you get back on it you can get another one.
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I mean if a generator regresses THAT much, I"d argue killers have no issue with that.
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They have a 2 second or so delay and a clink when dropped. You can also see them in the survivors hand aswell as the drop animation. Literally just look up and they are completely impotent.
Unless they recieve massive buffs the flashbang perk will remain a meme pick.
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I was just asking a question...don't know what's with the sarcasm. I just figured that because SWF teams can actually communicate they can better coordinate things if someone has the perk and wanted to go off on a totem cleansing adventure.
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Nah, I get the fear. Totem perks are already pretty RNG based whether or not you get value from them, so I get the general concern about totem health after it's added.
That said, if it's any comfort, as a frequent Small Game user (almost all of my games), I assure you that I find and destroy your hex totems immediately anyway. If I used this new totem perk in addition to small game, it would only save this amount of time:
- First cleanse: 2.3 seconds
- Second cleanse: 4 seconds
- Third cleanse: 5.3 seconds
- Fourth cleanse: 6.2 seconds
- Fifth cleanse: 7 seconds
In total, that's a potential 25 seconds saved on totem cleansing if I use both Small Game and... whatever this new perk was called. That isn't bad, but it's also the maximum effect you can get in a match and goes down every time someone else cleanses a totem. If the first totem I cleanse is your totem perk (ruin/devour), then I'm only realistically saving 2.3 seconds worth of time. That's only actually relevant if you're hard camping that totem, but then you lose pressure on generators and have other problems.
I can also assure you that when there's a totem perk in play, I'm gunning it down instead of wasting time to cleanse each dull totem on the way.
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Edit:
Although theoretically, if I did use both totem perks for this, I'd probably actually justify cleansing each dull totem I found before the hex totem just so I could cleanse it faster when I found it. But at that point I'm wasting more time cleansing other totems than I'm saving cleansing the main totem itself, which kinda balances itself out I'd think.
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Generators were so slow, so they found way to nerf Ruin. Survivors need so much help
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Sorry, I love going on random tangents and creating nonsensical posts with a purpose. When I saw a free opportunity to create a short story to explain my outlook on the issue, I took it.
My main point was just to say that it doesn't really provide significant benefit to SWFs to use it in that way.
You won't know if the totem is dull or a hex, nor its actually location (especially relative to a teammates), and even if you do somehow communicate that, you'd then lose out on the totem-aura and cleansing benefits of the perk itself.
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I think blast mine against pop will be more annoying.
Detectives Hunch is still the better totem perk if you have a team who does gens. You see the nearest totems and you dont need to waste time cleansing if its dull.
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No worries it's cool. I do have a question though, I think I may have missed something on that new perk. So are they not able to see if the totems are active or not? I'd think that them being able to cleanse totems quicker after each cleansing, and being able to see the nearest totem location would be useful in helping pinpoint the killer's active hex especially if they have one of the more common/devastating hexes like Ruin or DH?
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No, it's just a brief and general 4 second aura akin to what you'd see with Detective's Hunch from what I've seen. This aura is also for the totem furthest away from you, not the nearest. So you'll spend a considerable amount of time finding hex perks with this since you have to go across the map every time you cleanse one, pray you remembered and can translate roughly where it was, cleanse what you saw, and then repeat the process until you find the hex perk.
Meanwhile with Small Game, I just rotate around the map and taking the shortest route between each totem, always knowing where they are, and skipping over anything that's not an active totem. It's just so much better for tracking down hex perks than Counterforce (hey, I remembered the new perks name).
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That also, again, all depends on someone else not cleansing the totem you saw and went to painstaking lengths to find and cleanse. If they did, you don't have a perk until you find a completely new totem on your own.
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Ohhh ok, and my bad I thought the perk tracked the nearest and not the farthest. But even then wouldn't the ability to cleanse the totems quicker with each cleanse be very powerful on its own, especially if you did mix it with other perks and add-ons to hunt down the active totem?
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The totem cleanse speed is only relevant if you're being contested on the hex totem you want to cleanse. If the killer isn't around to stop you, it doesn't matter. However if the killer tries to contest you enough for it to matter, you're typically better off threatening to break the totem rather than actually breaking it since they lose pressure everywhere else on the map as a result and will potentially lose the game.
In addition to that, you only get a significant amount of cleanse speed by cleansing other totems first. But if you stop and take the time to cleanse those totems, you actually waste more time doing so as opposed to skipping them and gunning for the hex totem itself.
These above scenarios apply the same whether you're running Counterforce by itself, or with other totem-related perks (like Small Game). I honestly wouldn't recommend stacking totem perks for these reasons because there's just not much benefit to be derived - especially when compared to running nearly anything else.
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At most, I predict Counterforce will only be decent in a totem meme build or as an alternative to Small Game (of which Small Game will probably still be better, but I'd argue they're close enough).
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The totem perks will get run for the first few weeks until everyone's back to the meta so no need to worry.
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Ok, I see what you mean. Thanks for actually taking the time to go in to it and go over just how useful this thing may or may not be, I appreciate that =). Curious to see what or if any changes will be made once this chapter goes live next month.
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I still prefer my detective hunch over counterforce. Nothing can beat the ability to see all the totems and generator, and chest locations. Like you said if a killer is not around the speed boost won't matter.
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Yeah, that does make sense. What I'm imagining is a runner, two gen users, and a totem/gen user. This totem hunter cleanses like a machine then does gens. It seems scary, but. It's all chance, so I guess it makes it okay, but until I experience it myself I will be scared haha
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