When will the devs start punishing exploits like "grab-tech"
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I gotta agree with the other guy. You have four survivors alive at EGC, three of which are smart enough to coordinate like they're supposed to and outplay you. I get it's not fun, but it's not fun for the person being facecamped/farmed off of hook either.
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I don't understand what side you think I'm on, or if you're being sarcastic.
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I just don't want my grab to be revoked.
Fix grabs.
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This way I can spam grab in front of a hook while face camping making it impossible for anyone to even attempt to rescue the Survivor???
Obviously you paid no attention when the Doctor was able to do this before it was fixed.
Good grief.
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If they let go, you don't grab. If the grab "breaks", its because they let go much sooner on their side than what you saw due to latency.
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This should absolutely not be a thing.
Before the doctor rework, doctor could grab survivor but otherwise had no m1 ability while in treatment mode. so doctor players could facecamp and literally mash m1 and it was literally impossible to unhook because with no skill on the doctors part, they could not be tricked into hitting you and if you ever committed it was a guranteed grab. This would make hte exact same thing happen with EVERY killer. Survivors should be able to do something to try and save their team mates from a camping killer even if that situation does favor the killer heavily, which it does.
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What is this Senzu... I usually agree with your points but... All he is asking for it to give him what he's entitled to. If he's able to time a grab with how broken and busted the ping and mechanic is, then he should get the grab. The server shouldn't say, nope half way during the animation.
Either fix how buggy hook grabs are or make it more visually clear to the killer that they missed it instead of just canceling it half way. If fixing a bug or fixing the de-sync between the server and client is a nerf to you, then you have the wrong terminology as that's not a nerf.
To picture this as a survivor, it's like escaping through the gates, but the game says, nope and teleports you back. You'll likely be down and on your way to a hook. They need to fix the visual feedback, it's just not right to have the game give you false information.
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So why do you think survivors should be punished for baiting unhooks? The grab bug existing is not their fault. When a killer is in facecamping range, baiting the unhook is necessary whether the bug exists or not.
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It is intentional that the killer can start the grab animation and even play it through to the shoulder only to have the game roll it back and freeze you in place while the survivor gets to run away or complete the gen/save in your face?
wow.
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not the grab cancel, the baiting. which is what i was addressing
please bestie use your critical thinking
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Baiting gens is only a thing because they know the grab cancel is a thing :)
Hook baiting makes sense.
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What are you even talking about?
I'm quite happy for them to fix grabs absolutely no quarrels with that, please show me where I say they shouldn't fix grabs, however the person replying to me is OP, and the title is literally "When will the devs start punishing exploits like grab tech?" So from the title the op want's survivors punished instead of grabs fixed, nobody is exploiting anything since survivors have been doing the fake save thing to get hit for years, way before the dedicated servers broke grabs.
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Survivors have taken hits to finish gens before for years too and has nothing to do with cancelling the grab, if you stay on the gen and no you can't finish it, you stand take a hit and finish the gen knowing you can finish it while they blade wipe.
Absolutely nothing to do with grab cancel issue.
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I would agree with you if they actually stood up but they don't. They look like they are just holding M1 on the gen but you keep freezing every time you try to grab them.
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and on their screen they probably very well did stand up, but apparently that's the survivors fault that connections take time.
When are we going to punish killers for hitting survivors when on my survivor side it didn't look like he hit me at all.
See how these arguments are similar, caused by the same thing, but you'd argue against punishing the killer because it's not their fault.
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I'm talking about people defending the grab tech, I don't understand the mindset behind it. I don't think it should be punishable, but the developers should fix it ASAP since it pretty much eliminates the threat of the killer grabbing you unless you're just inexperienced at baiting.
My apologies if you were talking about it not being punishable, it was vague and the context made me think it wasn't. I just been seeing a lot of people trying to justify keeping this tech, but it's ridiculous โ it practically guarantees an unhook and potentially an escape under certain scenarios.
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The 'grab tech' has been a thing since before grabs were broken, it isn't something being used because grabs are broken it's ALWAYS been a thing, so yes I'm happy to defend faking saves so the killer swings at me so i can pull someone off knowing the cool down is longer than the save animation.
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I'm talking about the bug that makes it impossible to grab, the de-sync.
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You mean the thing survivors have no control over or? lmao
Again, this is like trying to punish killers for getting hits they shouldn't have, it's desync and no one can force it but VPNers.
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Do you want it fixed or keep it? I'm not talking about punishing it, no need to assume I want it punished after I literally told you in a previous comment that I just want it fixed.
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I want it fixed where do i indicate that it shouldn't be fixed?
My argument was against punishment of people doing a "tech" that has been used for almost 5 years when this person is saying that it's only being doing because it's exploiting broken grabs when it was a thing before broken grabs were even a thing so it's not exploiting anything.
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I know, I told you that I agreed it shouldn't be punished but rather fixed. Not sure where the misunderstanding came from, but I'm glad we can come to an agreement and say it needs to be fixed ASAP.
Punishing wouldn't be fair in my opinion since it's not like this broken bug created hook baiting, people having been baiting forever. If the developers broke hook grabs, that's on them, not on the hook baiters to stop doing it. If it was a super broken bug that made hook baiting unstoppable, I can agree we need to let people know that this isn't okay, but this bug isn't close to making hook baiting OP.
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Didn't cross my mind as I was thinking about the grabs that get cancelled mid animation. I also never encountered any docs doing this as I rarely see any camping at all, much less a specific killer which was already addressed.
Still pressing the button when prompted and starting an animation only to have it switch to a less beneficial ( sometimes condemning) one needs correction. Unreliable actions are a detriment to play on any side.
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Not necessarily, I had some matches where I turned a situation like this into 4ks. It all depends on the situation imo.
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Punishing survivors for a smart play is dumb but I agree however that the grab is and has been always totally bugged and inconsistent, the devs should really work on it to somehow fix it or make it more fair. But since this is a killer issue the devs will most likely not do anything or very late.
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I do agree that hook baiting to some end makes sense, however because of the grab cancel that exists there as well it makes it incredibly unfair since even if the killer would get the grab they either sit there bugged out or take a swing anyway. What I think would be fair is if survivors had to lock in for at least 1 or 2 seconds which would still allow them to bait but also entirely remove the exploit by not allowing them to cancel the grab.
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it also depends on what killer you are running. certain killers (bubba, billy, myers, gf) can do this because of their instant downs other killers not so much, not even doctor because he has to charge up shock therapy and has a delay on when he can M1 after...which is another issue entirely: why give the doc a stun if you limit his ability to follow up on it? It's the whole reason they reworked him in the first place
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Hook baiting may not be OP but due to how weak killers are, it is often a free escape. once a full health survivor reaches the hook the options are to sit there and loose the hooked survivor or just give it to them. This is also what I mean by survivors making stupid moves, survivor mains know they have no reason to fear killers (and still call for nerfs anyway), they know, that in a horror game, the scariest thing on the map is them...not the monstrosity out to shove meat hooks through them.
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But survivors do have control over this, which is why it's an exploit. High rank survivors especially are nearly impossible to grab and do things such as sitting on generators until you go to grab them, canceling your grab, and finishing off the generator while you are stuck in animation or bugged out. Hits are calculated by the killer as part of server design, this however is a bug that is commonly exploited.
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taking hits is part of the problem with survivors not being afraid of killers, killers use grabs to counter survivors who want to take the hit and go on their merry way but since grabs are broken high rank survivor wait for the grab in stead knowing they either wait and time the animation to bug out the killer or they take the hit anyway. I've seen rank 1 survivors dc after they mistimed the exploit and got themselves grabbed, which messes with the killer even more. so yes, this exploit is a problem because it too also breeds entitlement.
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Translation: I didn't kill anyone by the EGC and think the Devs should give me a way to get a pity kill.
Except any decent survivor would already know that NOED exists and would simply find the totem before attempting a rescue. Starstruck won't work because the three other survivors are off totem hunting while the killer stands by at the hook. If you can't get a sacrifice before EGC I doubt much is going to actually help you.
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Survivors can absolutely end up getting grabbed in these situations, so it's not that there's "zero consequence" to this. Moreover, the player with the worse connection is at a disadvantage when it comes to grab interactions, so it's also not like survivors are usually actually trying to make failed grabs happen (and if they are they are playing with fire), but they try to bait a hit. The only situation in which survivors can intentionally abuse grabs with any reliability is if they have cheating software to manipulate their connection in order to lock the killer into grab animations for prolonged periods of time.
As opposed to hits (which unfortunately still favour the killer completely one-sidedly on latency), grabs appear to be governed by the server. So whether a grab happens depends on whether the server first (or at all) receives a survivor's data saying "I ended the interaction" or the killer's saying "I grabbed them". The fact that killers are locked into grab animations if there is a lot of latency in the connections also suggests this, because the killer client is made to wait for the server call on whether the grab happened or not. So, latency for grabs does not actually favour any side in terms of the underlying networking system; it can be equally unfair for both sides, depending on the connections. If a survivor has a bad connection, they can end up getting grabbed well after having let go of an interaction on their end.
What is however unfair about grab interactions is the fact that even if a grab fails, killers are locked into the grab animation for a brief period of time. Usually this doesn't make much of a difference as they will still get the hit shortly thereafter, but it can also create scenarios where the survivor does get away without being hit. The fix is simple: failed grabs (grabs that do not end in the survivor being on the killer's shoulder after a certain short period of time) should autmatically be turned into successful hits.
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As for grabbing survivors off of unhooking interactions specifically, I actually think rebalancing is in order. First of all, the fact that a hooked survivor cannot be unhooked for as long as the grabbing animation lasts is a bullshit bug that has been in the game forever and should have long been fixed. The killer already got an easy down out of it, that other survivors are then also unable to rescue the hooked survivor is too punishing.
And for a larger rebalancing, I would actually want for unhook grabs to be removed entirely. Unhook grabs are to a large degree a luck-based mechanic that is vulnerable to latency and can randomly be to the detriment or benefit of either side. They also encourage the hardest of camping and lead to ridiculous, awkward situations of dancing around a hook with the killer refusing to hit the survivor and the survivor being scared to commit to the unhook. As a more general and larger rebalance approach even well beyond that, I would much prefer if the camping power of killers were to be nerfed, and in turn other, more fun and engaging aspects of killer gameplay buffed instead, such as their chase strength, map control, and slowdown capabilities. I have a wide variety of ideas for such buffs, and of course many people here and elsewhere have presented various such ideas too. And hell, with the right approach even camping could be made more fun and engaging of a gameplay aspect in its own right, allowing for more interactive play around hooks.
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Faking unhooks to tank a hit and unhook during the cooldown animation has existed since long before I started, and long before dedicated servers anniahlated the entire concept of grabs. The only problem is that sometimes the game will force a grab to initiateย despite the killer doing a little lunge to deliberately avoid starting a grab, but that's got nothing to do with the survivor unless they're lag switching. That's just poor game code.
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Okay, so here's the deal, as I understand things:
Grab-baiting in itself is fine, yes.
What ISN'T okay, however, is the fact the game outright says "Nah" more often than not, making grabs a moot point more often than not.
If the devs fixed the way grabs are handled to be more fair to the Killer, then I'd be all for baiting it out.
However, as it stands, grabs are ######### up, so I think there should be something to even out the playing field SOMEHOW.
I just don't know if this particular thing is that thing, though.
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For the record, I am all for fixing hit registration, but at the same time, there is an argument to be made for the stupid hitreg-tech that forces a Killer to whiff during a lunge by running back and forth excessively fast as you go about your business.
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There is no hitreg tech lmao
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Then explain how I've had Survivors do this weird zig-zag within centimeters, causing my lunge camera to go ballistic in a chase and ultimately whiff, costing me lots of time.
Hell, I had it happen several times in the same chase, so I just abandoned them.
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Aim dressing has been an issue for a long time and is under no control by the survivors, they zig zag to try and fake going left or right, if forcing killers to miss hits was as easy as zig zagging, everyone would be doing it.
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Well, I see it way more often than I should, and it works way more often than it should, then.
I don't even know what it is they're doing, all I see is zig-zagging, but every time I see that and swing, my camera freaks out and I whiff. I can't explain it.
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Based on the frequent "nerf noed" posts there's not many decent survivors. ๐
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they'll deal with things like that when they start dealing with cheaters that claim they can't because of EAC or that they're on a console and are clearly. lying.
I do what I can when I can catch it but it seems to be getting worse right now. no matter what side of the game you play.
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Same.
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So I'm not the only one!
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That's like saying there aren't many decent killers because they cried for a nerf to DS for the longest time....
Also known as a faulty generalization....
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I know what you are talking about. From what i've been told that has something to do with both controllers and people who use a wiggle macro> Basically they turn the macro on so that it essentially breaks their hitbox before your hit would connect, turning a fair hit into a miss. the devs should absolutely be punishing macro abuse. I understand people who need it for disabilities, but that some people have figured out a way to make it an exploit tells me they need to rework the wiggle (like they did the struggle) and start treating macros like cheating.
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oh no, that's not what he's talking about. by all measures the lunge should be a hit. what's he's talking about is when survivors, while standing in the same place suddenly jolt left-to-right so rapidly that either the lunge travels off into left field or the game gets "confused" and registers a fair hit as a miss because it can't properly track the survivor hitbox. hitreg tech specifically involves breaking the hit box to avoid being hit, it has nothing to do with psyching out killers or dodging. This is strait up some cheaty bullshit.
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nope. I see it frequently. though I don't often go wildly to the side, I have so I do know what you are talking about, most often the game says I missed even though I clearly watched my weapon pass through the survivor.
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yeah but to be fair, DS really did need a nerf. It's fine now, much less able to be abused.
NOED was nerfed to the point that it can completely be disabled.
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