Is it time to rework the the generator skill checks?

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n0suchluck
n0suchluck Member Posts: 35
edited June 2021 in Feedback and Suggestions

With all these arguments about gen speeds too fast, why not increase the difficulty (or rework them a bit) of skill checks within the higher ranks?

Let's be honest fixing generators is extremely easy and boring. The only time I mess up is the rare time I miss a great skill check. Even on the immersion side of things it should be a little bit harder fixing generators. All these survivors are mechanically trained? As it is now, skill check difficulty is pretty much the same at rank 20 as it is on rank 1. That doesn't seem right to me. What are your thoughts?

Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on

Comments

  • TwitchyMike
    TwitchyMike Member Posts: 759
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    Would be cool if you had to collect gasoline and spare parts to actually fix the generators. Make it that you only have to fix 2 generators in proximity to one of the two opening gates. But finding parts takes time and you have to bring them back to generator. And would be more moving around and looking for things instead of... sitting here on a gen.... again...

  • n0suchluck
    n0suchluck Member Posts: 35
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    Well I wasn't saying to make it a sweaty mini game but more or less to increase the frequency of missing a skill check within the higher ranks

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 10,225
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    No, please don't. We don't need to change every single thing in the game. Quite the opposite, actually.

  • Marik13
    Marik13 Member Posts: 683
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    It's funny cus when you look at another similar game, Friday the 13th, they actually did it right imo. Where survivors tread the camp grounds carefully to find all the little things they need, by checking every little nook and cranny of the cabins while also running away from and also distracting the killer. I think doing something similar I'm DBD would be cool, where depending on the map you're on you have to find certain things like generator parts, gasoline, extra wires, and/or some fuses for the exit gate? Maybe change up the scavenger hunt for specific maps too, and make them more thematic to the map itself. I remembered seeing someone suggest something like on the Oni's map you have to find and light some candles that when lit would cleanse the air of evil spirit dark magics and open the way for the exit to appear for the survivors. Something like this could be fun to toy with actually.

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
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    No offense (seriously, nothing against you) but many people who play killer a lot seem to focus much of their attention on one thing: The generators. They're too fast, they're too easy, you only have to hold one button to do them (as opposed to the 17 buttons they have to use when chasing or slugging, etc).

    Generators are fine. A couple go down fast, yes, but usually by the time the gens start to dwindle the killer starts to rapidly catch up. The less gens, the less the killer has to run around. The more strategically the survivors have to play. And don't forget that if they're not working together with perks a generator takes one person a good minute and a half to do one. That's a minute and a half for one fifth of match progress. That's a looooong time to go unseen.

    I think the gens are fine. I don't think that survivors need to do a bunch of aerobics and obstacle course adventures and trust-building getaways and games of spin the bottle and all kinds of other crap, I see enough wins and losses on both sides to say that the matches are usually a toss-up that depends more on player skill than game foundation to determine a successful outcome.

    Just my two cents.

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
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    Monstrum as well. I hype this game a lot (it's easily one of my favorite games of all time). If I may:

    Monstrum is a game that came out the same year as DBD and is, in a way, the single-player version of it. You're on a cargo ship at night in the middle of the sea and every time you play a match the layout of the ship's rooms and hallways are randomized. The goal is to explore the ship and find escape items (which are also randomly placed, and it's a BIG play area) and combine them, loudly, and finally wait out the time it takes for the escape item to become ready to use. Meanwhile there is one of three randomized monsters roaming the ship and if it so much as makes line of sight of you, it will gun for you immediately. If it catches you, game over. Period.

    Stealth and exploration is of prime importance in this game, you need to know when to hide, when to sneak, and when to make a break for it. But the thing is that there is no one reliable tactic because the foe and the placement of the items among the ever-changing maze is unpredictable. In this game it's not about finding an object and working on it, hoping not to expose yourself, it's about navigating a maze and trying to collect what you need until you've got enough to use one of the three escape methods. I have to admit that I prefer the "explore and find items" structure to "work on the static objects for a little while" structure, but this is just personal opinion. That said, I still very much enjoy the gameplay of DBD as it is.

  • Marik13
    Marik13 Member Posts: 683
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    Ooooh see I like that because from the sounds of it, that game has one thing that I've sorta noticed in my short time here, that DBD is lacking. It's lacking the fear aspect. Every game I play I don't really get the sense that the killer is "feared" which kinda goes against the whole theme of this game where you are trying to survive and escape the clutches of this monster who wants nothing more than to just murder you. All of that flies out the window when the survivors know that they have numerous second chance perks, items that can blind and stun the killer, and have places in the map that they can endlessly run around in with no fear of being caught. I will say I the Friday the 13th game I never ever wanted to run in to Jason, even if I had my knife and could stab him and run away, I wanted nothing to do with him and would make sure that I was always sneaking or that if I saw him from a distance that I started booking it in to the woods in the opposite direction. Don't really get that same feeling here though.


    I don't know, this might just be me, and I fully expect to rustle some jimmies with this statement, but I think the survivors in these types of games should always be at a disadvantage against the super powered killer/monster. Not saying that the killer should always win, not not at all. Hell that was never the case in Friday the 13th because while I felt like a force to be reckoned with in that game as Jason I still very much lost a lot of games lol. The survivors in those games straight up would outplay the hell out of me, despite me having the advantage with all my tracking and teleporting powers and what not and as a survivor in that game, outplaying Jason and surviving felt sooooo satisfying and well earned and I'd get that well deserved sigh of relief afterwards lol.


    Anyway main point, I feel like this game when compared to other similar games lacks the fear aspect when playing survivor. Hell I've had so many games where as killer, the only one who was fearful of anything in those was me being scared of the survivors lol.

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
    edited June 2021
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    Oh man, do yourself a favor and check out Monstrum. Watch a couple of longplays, see what you think. Not to hijack, but briefly:

    • You are powerless. You have no defense. None. There is no fighting back.
    • You are faster than all the killers, but not by much for two of them (more on that shortly). This is to allow you to try to desperately break line of sight and find a place to hide. And in this game, hiding is literal: Under bunks, under tables, in cabinets and lockers.
    • Each match can be a minute to half an hour, depending on how well you do at finding the randomized items. Aside from flashlights and glow sticks there's not much more than throwables for distractions and the rare escape items (a submersible, a helicopter, and a life raft. Three to four items are needed to complete each).
    • When you start the game you have no idea which monster you're against. You must tread very carefully.
    • One monster can only be identified from a short distance by the loud stomps it makes when it walks. It is a massive creature called the Brute.
    • One monster can only be identified by the flickering effect it has on the lights, as it's a paranormal entity that floats around the dark halls nearly silently called "the Fiend".
    • The final monster is always in the vents, unseen, until it chooses whatever time it wants to pop out of one and try to startle and ambush you. This is the Hunter.
    • You hear the footsteps of the Brute and see the flickering of the lights in a circular radius meaning you don't know if the monster is in the next room, outside the door, above you, or below you.
    • There are always dead ends, and if you run down one when being chased, bye.
    • The brute is about rushing you hard and fast, bashing down doors to get you. Against the Brute, you RUN. The Fiend is about immediately finding a hiding spot when you see those lights flicker. The Hunter can just show up anytime, almost anywhere, but is thankfully slower.
    • When you're caught, it's very loud, in your face, and crunchy, lol.
    • EDIT: Oh, almost forgot! While the three monsters have dynamic AI, they are always within a certain distance of you. If you run from the bow to the stern for example - itself a good minute or two sprint - the monster will magnetically be drug along with you. It won't always be right by you, but it's designed to never be far from you. Not for long. It doesn't know exactly where you are unless it sees you and watches you duck into a hiding spot, but nah, there's no sitting and waiting for it to leave you alone. It's always near. The fear comes from knowing that you have to get out there in the maze and expose yourself, hoping that you have a good exit plan for when you're spotted. And you WILL be spotted. And boy, the noises they make when you're spotted, lol.


    The game is really, REALLY well designed. Wonderful spooky atmosphere. While I'm now quite used to it it was the only game besides Amnesia in which, for a good few weeks, I felt legitimate unease at wanting to play. It was fun, but it was SO tense that I almost didn't want to put myself through the experience. Overlooked game, very high quality.



  • Marik13
    Marik13 Member Posts: 683
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    That actually sounds like fun! It is multi-player right, like I can form up my own group and play with friends? Just wondering cus like I said, that fear factor just isn't there as a survivor in this game, especially in SWF. If anything the fear gets replaced with salt cus I'm still a baby survivor and have no perks except maybe one unlocked lol.

  • TheClownIsKing
    TheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278
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    No.

    Do you understand what the actual point of skillchecks are?

    They’re so Survivors can’t 100% focus on simply just their spatial awareness, and only worry about panning their camera.

    Skillchecks give survivors something else to momentarily concentrate on periodically, giving a killer, even one with a 32m TR, a minor opportunity to still possibly approach from a position the survivor(s) may not yet have visual on.

    But this is also why skillchecks aren’t made anymore difficult or complicated at base: Survivors STILL need to be allowed ample opportunity to concentrate on their spatial awareness while repairing a gen. You can’t make keeping tabs on the survivors surroundings more difficult, and making skillchecks more difficult and/or complicated than they are will unavoidably make spatial awareness more difficult.

    You’re reasoning is that it might help slow gen speeds down. What it would also do unfortunately is indirectly buff every killer, particularly stealth killers. Going against a Ghostface on Lery’s will be unbearable with more difficult base gen skillchecks stealing away more of the survivors concentration over keeping an eye on their surroundings.

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
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    Monstrum is only a single-player game (which, to be honest, works in its favor because you are ALL alone. It's just you, with no one to help and no way to defend yourself, against a wandering monster that wants you dead. It works VERY well).

    The sequel, however, due out any time, IS multiplayer. My understanding is that it will be the same asymmetrical style of DBD, though I don't know wen it will be released. They did the open beta about 8 months ago I think.

  • Nos37
    Nos37 Member Posts: 4,112
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    I think the changes should be universal and not based on rank. That said, I had friends play on occasion and they struggle with skill checks as a new player. For this reason I don't think the difficulty of skill checks should be increased by reducing good/great zone sizes.

    Now, imagine a surgeon watching TV off to the side while operating and they're able to clamly deal with a surprise complication all without looking back at the patient. I think the camera needs to focus on the generator when a skill check warning pops up, much like the Hag's phantasms pulling the survivor's camera. Hex: Huntress Lullaby messing with and removing the audio warning should also affect this pull (no pull at 5 stacks), as it would mean one less cue to the survivor about the coming skill check and buff the perk.

    This change would also help stealthy killers; especially Ghostface who requires being continuously stalked back to interrupt his stalking.

  • Marik13
    Marik13 Member Posts: 683
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    Awww damn, it sounded like it would be a cool game to play with some friends late at night and just scream with at 4 am sounds like fun lol

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
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    Not to promote myself but if you're interested I can send you one of my "deep dives" (several hours of me playing the game, commentary or not, your choice) if you'd like to see someone deeply familiar with the game having lots of fun with it. If not that's cool (can we even send private messages?).

    I can understand preferring the multiplayer aspect, that's one of the things that makes DBD special. But Monstrum is a different beast, the sense of isolation and helplessness you feel when it's just you in a veritable maze with a killer who needs do nothing more than catch you for your game to end makes for a very tense experience. I like to call it single-player DBD. :)

  • JimboMason
    JimboMason Member Posts: 759
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    Not that they're fast and easy, just boring. People just want them to be more interactive, like friday the 13th

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
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    When I'm on one by myself it's fairly boring, yeah. Some would say "up the skill checks!" but to me quick-time events are the bane of video gamedom, always have been. At least doing a gen with more than one person cuts the time a lot.

  • n0suchluck
    n0suchluck Member Posts: 35
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    Are you a dev of dbd? Your reply is so matter of fact that I feel like this is your game.

    Imo, generator interaction and looking out for the killer should be more of a balance. As it is now, the generator interaction is an annoying slight distraction that is done while looking out for the killer. Add in, without certain killer addons, it makes a notification sound when you should glance back at it.

    You're making it out like I'm asking for it to be a sweaty af mini game. I'm not! But it should be a little more engaging for the players that have and are mastering the game. The whole objective of the game as survivors is to fix generators. After a few hrs of playing, that main objective takes little to no concentration.

    Honestly it was just a suggestion to slow the gens down without adding more time to it or buffing this and nerfing that...Also making it a little more engaging and a little more challenging for the higher ranks. But apparently "I don't know the purpose of skill checks" soooooo excuse me for adding a suggestion into the mix

  • TheClownIsKing
    TheClownIsKing Member Posts: 6,278
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    I didn’t say you didn’t know.

    I asked a question.

    You know what punctuation is? (Again, this is a question)

  • miketheratguy
    miketheratguy Member Posts: 2,719
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    What drives me nuts is when something happens, like a survivor being downed or hooked, which naturally diverts my attention just when I'm supposed to be doing the skill check. I hate that, it seems to happen way more often than it should.