Need more anti tunnel/camp perks
For the vast majority of players i've played with after this atrocious rank reset they cannot deal with tunneling and camping properly. Camping and Tunneling in this game are way too effective especially for the lower ranked players. Even in the higher ranks though when its a bad map for survivors or the survivors just can't loop they go down and games end fast when the killer tunnels or camps knowing they can get away with it. The game I just had the survivor had DS still died before we got past the 2nd gen getting done. These two tactics are more effective for getting the kills than it is with hooking each person one by one. To me that sounds like a flaw somewhere. We need more anti tunnel camping perks or it needs to become less viable in some way. The obvious survivor way around both of these tactics is gen rushing, but if they have NOED we're probably #########. On top of that we as the survivors get punished on the Altruism emblem for doing what we're supposed to do in order to get around the two tactics. Its unfair and its really bad for the lower end of skill in this game. Its no wonder DS was used so much and even with it now it doesn't help the killer will continue to tunnel you.
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The thing here is that behaviour doesn't want to, camping and tunneling is a strategy for killers and nerfing killers in any way would probably hurt their killer population which is already pretty low, you can tell they don't want to because there's a pretty easy fix for it and it's basically making every killer work like pyramid head, they could simply remove hooks and make every killer send you to a random location on the map in a cage, that would pretty much end the camping problem but they obviously don't want that.
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The game is a mess in the core, balancewise. The most efficient way to win is to eliminate one person as soon as possible, so whatever you say - tunneling is the most viable tactic. If the game had no BT or DS, there would be no reason NOT to go for the just unhooked person, other than chivalrous code of honor. Adding more perks which are supposed to easy game's core issues won't fix anything, it will just add more ways to abuse said perks for SWFs, as they do with BT and DS, and it will break the game balance even further.
Moreover, the perks you are talking about sound like they will be second-chance perks. And the game has enough of those for survivors, making SWF players virtually immortal.
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The game needs to be changed, I don't think it's a problem with tunneling/ camping. some of the game designs are poorly done and need to be updated. It will just add to the perk bloating and make people complain more about perks
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Camping and tunneling are side effects of the current gen speeds.
When killers don't feel cornered because they lost 2 or 3 gens in a single chase, then they won't camp and tunnel.
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Strategies that heavily rely on Survivors to be effective. Teamwork can counter camping and bad saves lead to tunneling. If these are frequent issues for you then change the load out to compensate.
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That is on you. Predators in nature pursue the very old, the very young, the sick, and the injured (and isolated). Because they are easier prey. Killer in DbD is a "predator". Survivor is "prey". Injured survivors are ideal targets to be hooked. You have to do your part as survivor (load out, items) to prevent that. And the "herd" (teammates) are supposed to help/protect you.
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I just don't understand when they hard tunnel someone at 5 or 4 gens remaining, why ruin the game for others like that?
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Part of it is gen speed yes, but part of as well is that people just give up when nothing really happened, a hook is pressure, now use that, that is what the game is about.
If you start camping because of that then you will never get better and you might as well not play killer as well, watch some Otz gameplay I guess.
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as a survivor you're opting in and have signed the waiver that this is a possibility. the good news is if you didn't queue with friends, you're free to requeue immediately.
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Because they didn't camp and tunnel hard in the previous 10 matches and lost them all.
Showing mercy usually costs a killer the match.
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Oh I'm talking about the solo survivor perspective here.
Likewise I could say the say the same, if you have a problem with camping killers...
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you have to explain that last sentence to me.
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That'd be really cool actually and it'd give room for more killers such as chuckie to come in without wondering how they'd hook.
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That's not a good argument though I've had plenty of them camp or tunnel while having no gens done and commit to it.
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Don't think there is much I can do when they can wait out BT or keep chasing them anyway its up to the other person to just loop at that point and me body block as much as I can but that's not getting gens done so I don't do it too often.
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This isn't about SWF and not all of them that try to abuse that stuff are good enough to actually succeed with it. They might annoy you but they won't always win. BUUUUT i get your point. But you can't balance for the best of the best because the bottom will suffer. I think those second chance perks give them the chance they actually need when it comes to the tunneling camping killers that do it no matter the scenario. Matchmaking has been throwing me against R10's - 20s and its crazy to see just how many of them tunnel or camp. As a red rank player its funny to loop them but its sad because they'll chase the WHOLE game and I'm like...chase someone else you're not catching me and they more than likely do this to the people they can catch and its just not fun gameplay for someone who will feel helpless against it.
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You said that I should watch Otz, when I start camping as killer.
Implying that killers just need to get better.
This goes both ways. If you can't play against camping killers, watch a streamer who can.
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Another thing is that most players do not do that {protecting teammates}. Its not something you can teach a herd of people that probably don't want to listen or even understand how or why they should do it and the change in the match it'd make. When matchmaker decides to give me a low ranked killer I can barely ever even get saved by the survivors at those ranks because they try to play immersed when they obviously to me shouldn't be.
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It takes multiple survivors to beat a camping killer if the killer knows how to do it the "right" way
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Ermm there is no playing against a camping killer, camping is just a non game, might as well watch streamers to see how they play against an AFK player, just as interesting.
Camping is not playing the game, its a non match, it should not exist but bad killers will resort to it still.
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As said above. Killer might have had 10 bad matches before he started camping on the get go.
Survivors gen rush and BM at the exit gate. Thinking that's fun. But they forget, that the killer is also a human being. Who will feel frustrated and maybe take out that frustration on the first survivor he sees next match.
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DS was used because it was easily abusable and broken as #########.
It helps against tunneling just as much as before.
Anyways, no. A perk shouldn't nullify a playstyle. That's like making a killer perk that makes survivors unable to run. Tunneling and DS are both fine where they're at.
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Luckily there are usually 4 survivors per match. Play as a team. Even when you play solo.
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We all have to act according to the situation at hand, risk or abandon. Bt can at least buy some time so they're not downed immediately at the hook, but if another chase insues that's up to them to escape or fail again.
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No? You sure about that?
How about unhooking someone with BT?
Or do you instantly suicide on the hook?
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again, non of that is interesting in any way shape or form, its exactly the same as anyone being AFK, or anyone being a complete baby or someone just following the killer around clicking their flashlight the entire time, whatever, its a non match, all party members should play "normally" but that is sadly becoming so rare.
Im sure you can agree with me on that, actual good matches, matches where the outcome does not really matter because it was fair, tense and fun, how often does that really happen in this game? 1 in 20 matches maybe?
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Fixing gen speed won't change how camping and tunneling is still the optimal move. It just is now a previously tunneling brown rank survivor won't feel the need to tunnel until he gets to green rank.
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You also have to understand the killer. Is getting camped fun? No, but neither is losing 3 gens in the first chase.
I guarantee you, that the killer would prefer a nice chase, more points, etc. Instead of feeling cornered by the speed at which gens get done.
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When Undying was released and Undying Ruin was meta, there wasn´t a single thread about camping killers. Instead we had tons of threads that complained about killers being gifted wins by the perk combo, that survivors shouldn´t be forced to do totems or change their loadout.
Now that Undying is useless, we got the camping killer threads back. Which isn´t exactly a surprise. Because when survivors were asked, what they prefer, doing totems or camping killers. They said they prefer the later one, because they already had the perks to deal with the situation.
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Don't p'lay like a D tier Survivor, if the killer isn't tunneling you don't get in front of them with BT and then cry, it's just cringe, BT is meant to be anti-tunnel not "ah ah look at me you can't down me". If killer is tunneling or camping someone then go there and take agro don't hide, don't be a Claudette, go there as a team. Grabs are broken so it's unlikely that you'll get grabbed. the problem is SoloQ survivors are goddamn potatos that try stupid plays all the time and only think of themselves.
BY default the game is considered balanced when 50% of Survivors die, 2 will always have to die, it's just a roulette, you can't survive every game and neither will you die every game but SoloQ Survivor Entitlement get's in the way, you don't wanna die, you don't wanna make a sacrifice to help the whole team, you only care about you. The best thing about SWF is that they are willing to get 2 hooked to save someone else from certain death while SoloQ survivors are absolutly incapable of taking 1 hook for someone else most of the time and guess what every Survivor has direct knowledge of how manny hooks each survivor has and still people let each other die in 4v1 or 3v1 situations.
It's not a Killer problem, it's a Survivor Mentality problem. I'm very happy that they changed Make Your Choice so that the rescuing Survivor screams, you can directly hear who made the save and know who to look for in case they hide and leave the unhooked survivor alone. Instead of running DS and DH and Unbreakable all the time, try other perks that benefit the team instead, bring Bond or Prove Thyself, bring Kindred, perks that aren't all about ME,ME,ME...
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Just went against a camping Legion this morning. We worked on gens until the last possible second required to rescue before the next hook state. He hard camped every single hook until a survivor was dead, then came for the last survivor and I working on the fifth gen with Discordance. With Pop and Thana, we weren’t able to get the gens done even working as optimally as possible. No Kindred or comms to assist the situation either.
And people on here think camping doesn’t need limitations? Hilarious.
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I doubt it people have been complaining about camping since the inception of this game.
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Just look for yourself. Use the search bar.
We got tons of nerf Undying threads in December and not a single camping thread.
But now in may we suddenly have a surge of camping threads.
A killer who used Undying Ruin wasn't camping. That's a fact.
Survivors brought this onto themselves.
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Classic point to evidence and say it's there but you actual have no way to prove it exists.
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What should i actually bring up as proof? A screenshot of the searchbar?
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Okay but running?? That's a core mechanic that'd be like me saying a perk to remove killers being able to swing.
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Yeah it was a bad analogy. How about a killer perk that prevented looping?
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You mean Bamboozle/Blood Favour/Crowd Control?
Or did you mean anti mind-game stuff like I'm All Ears/Stridor?
Killers cancel playstyles all the time. Try playing stealthy against Doctor. Or healer versus Plague. Run stakeout against Wraith or Pig, or Smash hit against Pyramid Head, Nurse or Huntress.
Or hell, don't even bring in perk choices or killer choices and just squat on a hook to disable rescues.
'Playstyles' get disabled all the time.
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Play styles don't. Those perks only hinder play styles.
You can use lockers against Doc and cleanse against Plague.
I don't think you know the definition of playstyle, because your comment is so uneducated it's mind-blowing
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my idea for an anti camp perk, inspired by leons flash bang.
A flash bang that charges based on time allies spent hook, it charges faster the longer someone stays before getting unhooked. Once used it's a fairly long blind/deafen(no stun because i don't want it knocking people out of killer hands in the late game), and places a bunch of scratch marks on the ground so the killer can't track where you went after the unhook. You can play with the charge valuies and stuff, the main target would be, almost guaranteed hook saves, and guarenteed to get it charged if the killer camps, only moderately useful if it's used late game in non hook save situations.
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You can't call me 'uneducated' while saying that cleansing enables a healer playstyle against Plague.
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She doesn't always have the time to sicken you if you continue cleansing, therefore giving you the ability to heal again. Yes, it isn't as efficient, but it doesn't completely nullify the playstyle. However, even if it did, it wouldn't matter. We're talking about perks, not powers. Learn the definition of playstyle before saying that those perks disable survivor playstyles.
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Is that why you skipped over the perks mentioned?
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Lemme go back and look:
Bamboozle: Leave the loop for another one. Does not stop any playstyles.
Blood Favor: Leave the pallet, which you already should be doing even without BF. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
Crowd Control: Go to a different loop. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
I'm all ears: Watch the killer to avoid getting mindgamed. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
Stridor: Loop normally. It only does something for one killer who you can still loop. Doesn't stop any playstyles.
All of these perks are anti loop, but you can still loop killers against them, just not as effectively. None of these stop any playstyles.
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You can't make the killer do what you want them to. If they want to camp to secure their kill, they're going to do so regardless. The issue is why they would want to.
Survivors already have so many second chance perks, and can complete gens so fast, that playing killer is mostly a race against the clock. If the killer is going for kills over hooks, then letting people get unhooks is unattractive. You need to make it attractive again.
Killer perks that reward you for not camping are far more effective. Devour Hope, BBQ, Make Your Choice, etc. even Furtive Chase if you're after obsessions.
Ruin is one too, but with totem placements and the Undying nerf, that's been made less attractive.
The best anti-camping perk would be a gen slowdown perk that rewards the killer for not camping similar to Devour/MYC. A non-hex version of Ruin that only works when you're over 24 meters from a hooked survivor would be brilliant.
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