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How would you fix survivors tapping a gen to stop regression?
With gen tapping being a bit unfair on killers and seeing this topic pop up a few times I'm curious as to what you guys would do to fix gen tapping. This is my idea, probably not the best out there though.
Any Gen that is regressing due to the killer kicking it, surge activating or oppression will regress as normal. When a survivor gets back on the gen that has been damaged they must sit on the gen for 2 seconds. During this time the gen will stop regressing but will not gain any progress either (much like when you fail a skill check).
If a survivor leaves the gen before the required 2 seconds is complete then the gen will start regressing again. Additionally if a survivor decides to use a toolbox on a regressing gen they will be able to stop the gen regressing 20% faster (a counter to brutal strength).
Note: Gens affected by hex ruin would not have this 2 second requirement as that would be a bit too strong, it would have to be a gen that you have to manually kick (surge being an exception).
Note 2: Surveillance will still show the gen being marked as white while the survivor is doing the 2 second requirement so it's not too strong. Only when the survivor has finished the 2 seconds will the white aura disappear.
It's not perfect and I'm sure there are better ways of doing this but with how gen tapping is right now I feel like something needs to change. Let me know what you think or how you would fix gen tapping. :)
Comments
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A forced skill check that activates every time someone starts working on a regressing gen.
The regression doesn't stop until the skillcheck has been done, if they miss it loses some more progress.
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So a buffed overcharge?
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Is that the one that gives a hard skillcheck?
I'm thinking more of a normal skillcheck, but basically.
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I like the idea though. Maybe the repair speeds of different toolboxes will either make it quicker or slower depending on the specific toolbox being used.
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Not really that difficult if you've been playing 10 hours at least.
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Right, hard or not I think that's how it's described.
I could be wrong, I haven't read the perks' description in a while.
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I wouldn’t. Killers have perks they can run to counter it, like ruin, or just blow a whole chunk of progress, like pop.
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It doesn't need to be difficult, it just needs to keep you on the gen long enough to make the trade-off more fair.
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How would I fix gen tapping? That's easy - I wouldn't. I don't think it's a problem.
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Is Gen tapping still a thing? I know people used to do it to counter the old hex:ruin but why do people do it now?
I havent seen it since those changes. So i dont see the point?
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lmao how is gen tapping an issue? Does old ruin exist still? Are you playing a old version of dbd?
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Tbf overcharge sucks so even if a nerfed version was made base kit lets be honest it wouldn't affect that many situations
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It just makes no sense to kick a gen in most situations as killer because of it. Killer time should generally be about 4 times more valuable as a single survivors yet it takes like 2 seconds to kick a gen and it cause it to start its regression where as it takes like what a frame or 2 to stop it, just makes kicks even worse then it already is.
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It takes the killer 2 seconds to kick a gen for literally no regression. Survivors take 0.01 seconds to stop regression. Unless you have pop it's really a huge waste of time for a killer to kick a gen
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Add a skillcheck like Overcharge but that you cannot stop touching the gen (with Overchange there is a bug that if you activate the skillcheck and leave the gen, you can do the skillcheck while you are walking / running).
Or, that survivors have to spend 2-3 seconds repairing the gen to stop the regression.
Even so, hitting the gens is completely useless without Pop or something similar, the regression speed is absurdly slow, we are talking about a gen that is at 99% taking 5 minutes and 20 seconds (320 seconds) to return to 0%. Wow.
What they should do is buff the base speed of the regression and nerf Ruin.
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It's gen tapping to stop a gen regressing once a killer has kicked it is what I mean. Killers don't bother kicking gens to regress them because a survivor can tap it in a split second to completely undo the action.
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Longer startup animation for generators to actually start the repair process.
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Personally I like the idea of putting in like a 3-5% base regression right off of the kick and then have it regress like normal. Regression speed is a different story, but also one that needs to be looked at too. I mean it is ridiculous that at base it takes 80 secs to do a gen, but it takes 5 minutes to have it regress back to 0% from 99%. Like come on. But with this little change killers might start finding it to be worth kicking gens, while also making survivors think twice about just gen tapping because then they'd just be screwing themselves over at that point.
Now to counter balance this, you'd have to nerf pop, ruin, and corrupt. Easy enough. Reduce the regression rate of ruin say to 150% max. Reduce the extra % kick you get from pop go from 25% to like 18% (or 20% so that when it combines with the base kick, it still only takes off a total of 25%), and maybe lower corrupt's blocking time to I dunno...100 or 90 secs max? Granted I think the numbers will need to be played with a bit, but for a start I think this is as good one.
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Kicking a gen now removes 2.5% progress immediately. Does not stack with Pop.
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Make Overcharge basekit as well, and rework the perk to be... functional.
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When starting a gen you get hit with 3 rapid fire skill checks before any progress is made. Any one of those skill checks that fails is 10% regression.
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There not a point, it already takes forever to finish a genwith gentapping.
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I play both sides and I can say that I feel really guilty when I gen tap as its awful as a killer who's struggling for control
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The discussion is about tapping gens mid chase. It's basically running by a generator and repairing it for just a frame. It doesnt break your running speed or animation.
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Okay, so now Gen-tapping is a problem?
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...Why touch ruin corrupt pop like that.
That's a terrible idea off the bat,
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Gen tapping is fine if you play survivor it's not as quick as you'd think and for some reason survivors can be full health grabbed off it 2 seconds after they let go
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Because if you're going to be fixing gen speeds AND giving a miniature pop like effect at base level with normal gen kicks, you need to offset the other perks otherwise it'd be too strong... The whole point of these recommendations isn't to give killers free wins and be overbearing to survivors. If that's the case and you don't want to change anything, then might as well reverse the DS nerf.
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Why is this a problem at kicking gens is only sometimes a good idea, though? While playing killer I would rather not spend the whole match kicking gens anyway. The current high risk / high reward nature of kicking gens rewards good tracking and decision making, which I think is a good thing; I definitely wouldn't want a base kit killer to nearly always get value out of a gen kick.
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Its not even a problem ool. Hag isfree
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It absolutely does slow you down, even if your reaction time is good, and even if the gen is magically directly in the optimal path away from the killer, which it seldom will be.
If a survivor is tapping a gen mid-chase and it has been regressing for a while, then the killer already got value out of their kick. The survivor is trading a bit of distance for the potential of saving some gen progress. If the survivor is tapping a gen the killer just kicked, the killer kicked the gen at a bad time. That's on them; tapping isn't the issue.
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There's really no need to. If you tap a gen and it has been regressing for a while, then the killer already got value out of their kick. Even if that tap comes mid-chase, not only did the killer still get some value from their kick, but the survivor also needs to trade a bit of distance to tap the gen. The kick therefore also provided a bit of value in that it should shorten that chase.
If the survivor is tapping a gen the killer just kicked, though, the killer simply kicked the gen at a bad time. That's on them.
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I'd just make kicking a gen do a mini pop of 5% regression as baseline for kicking gens. Then nerf pop to be 20% regression, so it stays as 25% regression total.
5% isn't much and amounts to 4 seconds of immediate regression. Since it takes a killer 2 seconds to kick a gen, this seems pretty fair to me. It would also be a nice synergy/buff to less used perks like Opression.
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I don't see it as unfair. Kicking a gen has a regression rate of 0.25 charges/sec. You should only kick a gen if you believe it will regress longer than the time it takes to kick it.
If you kick a gen knowing a survivor will run up and tap it then you are the one wasting time.
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Killer smashes the hell out a gen. Survivor graces their fingertips with it for a millisecond and it's magically fixed.
No, it's not alright or balanced. If i can tap a gen mid-chase, thats an issue. How can a person fix a damaged generator while running for their life?
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That's still wouldn't be good..
only 5%? You can still get all that regression screwed over easily.
This game is purely survivor sided. nerfing those perks will just make it worse in the end.
And the ruin nerf wouldn't make sense otherwise,
Gens are auto-kicked by ruin, you're not kicking it already xD
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How can a Woman fly or dissapear?
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Yes, only 5% is good enough for a BASE LINE kick. The whole point of my suggestion is to try to even out the base line regression for killers who do not have pop. Ruin is good yeah, while it's still active. Given that totems can literally spawn next to survivors at the beginning of the game, it's hard to say if you'll get any value from it. Plus the subject of this thread is about fixing gen tapping. This is a fix. Is a survivor wants to loop near a gen and gen tap they then risk that 5% kick happening again, now they lost 10%.
When I go in to these conversations I go in thinking about balance and try not to skew things towards one side or another. Giving a base 5% pop, which again you can increase with other perks still, and increasing regression time PLUS leaving ruin and pop maintain their normal values would be too oppressive for the survivors imo. If I said give the killers every thing and change nothing then I'd be no better than the survivors who come on here crying about how the DS nerf should be reverted while also making BT granted invulnerability to both survivors and make DH not give exhaustion. Like nah, you gotta balance things out. Give and take.
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Here's the simple truth, touching a gen to stop it regressing is not a problem. (Not going to call it gen tapping because gen tapping is something different that is now defunct but can cause confusion if we refer to this as gen tapping.) As a killer you should not be wasting your time kicking a gen when there is a survivor around that is going to touch it to stop the regression unless it is part of your plan to catch them. It is simply a waste of your time to kick it until you have downed them or run them off. If something a survivor is doing is an issue for you then the first thing you should be doing is figuring out how to counter it or make it work to your advantage not whining for a nerf because you can't adapt. Now here's something for the more advanced killers, if you kick a gen when you think no one is around and out of nowhere it's not regressing anymore there is a survivor nearby. You now know the general vicinity of one or more survivors, congratulations. If the survivor is touching the gen during a chase to stop the regression that takes them stopping and clicking their mouse to start an animation. This means they've stopped all their movement momentum and will have to start it back up when they go to move again and yes there is acceleration time in this game. It's small but it is noticeable. That means when the survivor stopped to tap that gen they gave up distance this is in YOUR favor as a killer and you can use it to YOUR advantage. Why on earth would you want to de-incentivize a survivor from doing something that causes them to give up distance. In a chase a survivor's distance is a resource for them. You want to reduce that resource not help them to preserve it.
TL;DR: Survivors stopping gens from regressing with a tap is good for smart killers. Nerfing regression stopping is unnecessary and removes a valuable tool for killers. Learn to adapt and use the tools you have instead of whining about things not fitting into your narrow scope.
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They mean tapping it to instantly remove regression in chase.
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It's annoying and it's been complained about since BHVR allowed killers to regress gens. Always been a topic on the board since its inception. Why should a survivor be able to effortlessly stop a regression? All BHVR has to do to resolve this argument is give their opinion on what their view on this is.
Granted it could potentially spark more discussion however it would be based around BHVR's view on how things should be and why rather than just the simple debate.
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Fix Overcharge so it stops giving Survivors Telekinetic powers. Seriously... you aren't even touching the generator anymore. How are you finishing the skill check?!?!?
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If I were to make a change I'd make survivors have to do a skill check or do a short animation.
But instead of doing that I'd rather buff kicked gen regression so it's actually worth it.
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To give kicking gens without perks a meaning cause its a waste of time when someone can literally spend less than a sec in stopping the regression..
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Future killer power right there. Killer able to strike a gen without having to physically touch it.
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Then you change the base altogether,
Don't change the perks just Cause It'd be too "Op"
Survivor has more Op items and perks in general. than that,
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That's not a bug, it is intentional game design confirmed by the developers to allow survivors to tap gens.
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The problem is that it really hurts every slowdown perk except Corrupt and Ruin. Even Pop gets hit harder by it than people realise.
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That's...not how that works... Whenever you're gonna add something new to a game you need to make sure that if the addition of said thing isn't going to break or make one aspect (or side, in this case) too op. If it does then you compensate with the other things. Literally nerfing pop to 20% DOES NOTHING. It literally evens out at the end.
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They can still pump 20% back in 14 seconds. 10 if they have toolboxes.
It wouldn't work, Pop has to stay 25% base otherwise you'll see the pattern.
Go look at Any High MMR gameplay that people use pop in, look how fast they get gen rushed.
Pop doesn't save em but like a spare second, at best
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