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The Nemesis debate is ridiculous
I've been reading the 50,000 threads on Nemesis and this is what I got from all of them:
So some Nemesis players want to have zombies pursue survivors that are infected, have more zombies depending on map size, Nemesis to have longer reach, have a wider hitbox on tentacle, hit survivors and break pallet while survivors are sliding over pallets, also infect and damage on the same hit. Did I get all of that?
You need survivors in the game to play and no survivor is going to play against all of that. This game needs killers that are balanced for the health of the game which is what we were given and some want an easy 4k machine.
I appreciate those that know Nemesis is balanced. This forum is full of complaints about game balance, killers like Nemesis are part of creating that balance.
I've seen people talk about the entitlement in this community and it's very obvious.
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I already have my 4K machine (Blight). And learning other 4K machine (Nurse). Freddy is not strong like this both but my Freddy boi has so much 4K.
I wanna some buffs for Nemesis because he is not strong. Killers have to be strong on chases or they have to be good with map mobility. Nemesis has not map mobility. And he is not good at chases because he has to hit 3 times. That makes him so weak. So i do not wanna 4K machine, i wanna fair and balanced killer. Nemesis needs buffs.
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I agree with this. I think he can use some QoL improvements but nothing game breaking. He is a very balanced killer that is around low A tier and high B tier. BHVR did a pretty good job so far with this killer imo.
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Even then the zombies are heavily RNG. They can either be the sole factor carrying you through a match, or the dumbest things in existence.
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IMHO Nemesis is fine.
I think Killer Mains are a little on edge given the state the last two launched in. Twins was just a bug-filled hot mess with an incomplete kit on launch and Trickster was so bad and ineffective, he was a complete meme killer on launch... and honestly, even after sweeping buffs, he's still arguably the worst killer in the game.
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I think Nemesis's Mutation Tiers could be changed, personally.
It takes a LOT of mutation to hit Tier 3, and your benefit is..........1 extra meter?
In terms of everything else I think he is mostly fine, I just find tier 3 rather underwhelming. Maybe it should be like Myers where Mutation 3 gets heavy buffs but it only lasts a limited timespan before you drop back down to tier 2, etc.
If Tier 3 is kept the same as is, maybe achieving it should be a little easier, like for each infected survivor, killing zombies gives more mutation than usual. (Making the "Gameplay Loop" being to try and infect all 4 survivors, then chasing down zombies to get mutation quickly, but survivors will vaccinate to prevent you from getting the extra mutation, so you switch back to trying to infect survivors, since infecting someone gives more mutation than killing a zombie or tentacling an already-infected survivor, and then you go back to targetting zombies again.)
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We get a perfectly mid tier killer who needs some minor changes, and killer mains are having an uproar that he’s not S tier.
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I'll agree tier 3 is pointless. I'm fine with him having only 2 tiers but that's me.
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I mean, the infection makes the survivors make a lot of noise
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Ofcourse survivor mains happy, now they have new weak killer. Devs showed their survside face again.
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Not that I'm for or against nerfing them, but isn't it explained in RE at some point that the zombies don't bother X/Nemesis/Tyrants is because they are also infected with the T virus?
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I think people would rather get outplayed by a killer then get into an unlucky no-win situation because an RNG zombie blocked their one path away from the killer. You literally can't plan around them on some maps.
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Has nothing to do with survivors being happy, this is about game balance. All the suggested changes would make playing against Nemesis miserable to play against and that is bad for the game's balance. Also could we not turn this into an us vs them thread? We have more than enough of those in the forum already.
I'm willing to listen to balanced suggestions if killer players have any. I agree 3 hits is a bit too much but so is his reach. You can duck and avoid some of his attacks if the debris in-between is tall enough but some is not so mind games aren't necessary for some instances.
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I just want another way to mori survivors.If their infected and or down by a zombie on the final hook Nemesis can walk over and trigger a second Mori like Pyramid Head, where the zombies would eat if you're not picked up in time
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Or it can be automatic
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But the speed boost should go on the first hit @CornHub idea
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I appreciate those that know Nemesis is balanced. This forum is full of complaints about game balance, killers like Nemesis are part of creating that balance.
Destroyed your credibility there. To pretend that a new killer that's been out a day is perfectly, empirically balanced in absurd and bias.
Yes, there are a lot of suggestions out there. However, the same people asking for longer reach may not necessarily be the same ones asking for more aggressive zombies. I have seen no individual ask for every single thing that you've listed in your original post. Yes, shocking I know, different individuals can have different suggestions.
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His reach is too long? The tentacle is, like, 5 metres. 6 at tier 3. And has a pinprick hitbox, windup and cancel time, hefty cooldown after use and requires three hits to down.
I don't really know what to say. Good bait if the "oh my god entitled killer mains just want to 4K every game" is any indication.
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You probably need four on a large map,smaller maps would be to oppressive
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Okey let me tell you my Nemesis experience.
- Infect hit is ridicilous. Survivor gets sprint and makes chase so longer. 3 hits = 2 Sprints. And gens flying. Infect hit has to not give sprint. Problem solved.
- He has not any map mobility or pressure. He has to trust zombies for that. And zombies are braindeads. And some maps are so big, zombies are so weak on this maps. Fix AI. Make 3 zombies for big maps (Coldwind, Red Forest, Swamp), 2 zombies for normal maps. Problem solved.
- Remove T3 because 1 meter range is nothing. And good survivors can dodge tentacle so easyly. Add 1 meter range to T2. T2 will be him max level, there is no reason to show effort for T3.
- Fix him tentacle hits because so many times palet breaking but survivor had to get hit, not pallet. That is bug.
That's all he needs. He will not be op, he will be good. If you are thinking this changes will make him uncounterplayable, i have not more words.
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Some suggestions are valid, i.e. tier 3 doesn't really feel worth going for.
You can cherry-pick the worst ones yeah, there should be 15 zombies minimum and they should be able to hook survivors themselves or something. Both sides come out with dumb ideas that should probably be ignored.
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Best thing I could think of right off the bat would be, that for every infected survivor, a zombie spawns. There are none initially. If a survivor vaccinates, then the zombie would not respawn after killed unless the survivor gets infected.
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You need survivors in the game to play and no survivor is going to play against all of that. This game needs killers that are balanced for the health of the game which is what we were given and some want an easy 4k machine.
Conversely though, you also need killers and nobody is going to play a weak killer that just gets bullied in red ranks by any mediocre SWF because they're underpowered.
He doesn't have to be Nurse or Spirit tier but currently the speed boost from getting infected makes him take way too long to down survivors and zombies are useless on any outdoor map, especially the bigger ones yet oppressive on indoor ones.
Look at Trickster (who I think is underrated a little bit tbh) or Clown. How often do you see them played and on top of that, do even moderately well in a match? I for one would like to see killers other than Huntress, Nurse, Wraith, and Blight when I play survivor.
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When I saw the title of your thread I thought it was going to be saying it's ridiculous to judge the balance of the killer so early. But no, this is just another debate thread. You can't call the debate ridiculous and then pick a side.
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Go and check topics on Nemesis and thoughts on him. The list is all the suggestions that players have come up with. I've read them and also by implicating that I have a bias you have shown yours. We're talking about ways to work a killer that is good on both sides and you come here to talk about bias. Also you never came up with any suggestions.
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In what universe is a 3 hit killer balanced? Killers are asking to not have to hit survivors 3 times with a power multiple times in a trial. That's not a tall ask.
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Bait? You're one of those...
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He is actually balanced and fun to play against for now. I hope BHVR doesn’t listen to the braindead killer mains and overbuff him, because he doesn’t need any.
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So you wanna face same killers again and again. Sure. I will keep take my easy 4Ks with Freddy, Blight, Nurse. I have not problem with that but survivor mains have to stop cry on my Steam profile.
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Yes they are all products of the T-Virus or the G-Virus so they all see each other as the same.
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So...I've said this before. Overall he's fine where he's at and could use some little tweaks. The zombies are very RNG to where they're either the best thing ever, or they're pretty much useless and serve no purpose. They still do dumb things, like lag on hits when survivors hug up close to them, or they'll get stuck on walls or something. The three hits with his power is a little much, especially since the initial infection hit gives survivors a speed boost as if they had just taken damage. Honestly the three hits and speed boost on infection hit are probably the biggest glaring issue that needs to be touched on first and soon hopefully. If they want to keep him to where he needs to 3 hit with his power, ok but then take away the speed boost from the initial infection hit. I'd be cool with that, especially since he still has to go through a cooldown when he hits with his tentacle too. Then yeah his T3 is just....severely underwhelming for what's supposed to be your max tier power. That either needs to be reworked entirely or scrapped and just keep him to two tiers and add the little Itty bitty range boost he gets to the pallet breaking ability because that pallet breaker is where the real value of his power is at.
Overall I'm having fun with him and enjoying him, but I agree that he does need some touch ups before he can be perfect. He's fine, but he could be better too.
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So you can’t play a normal killer? Only busted ones? And yet you guys complained about decisive strike even though it was anti tunnel.
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Translation: I get to impose my will on him and have fun. Keep up the good work BHVR!
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I think he is a bit unbalanced cuz his tantacles can destroy pallets and hit survivors. I mean it's a bit op don't you think cuz he doesn't need to get close his tentecles are a mid-range weapon so he doesn't get stunned and destroys the pallets. if you think that is balanced. plus he can just power up his tantacles and damage survivors over corners because of hit box of his tantacles.Buff, no, he needs a nerf.
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You're acting like nemsis isnt underpowered garbage.
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Did i? I wanna old DS back and i was complaining about it nerf times. I can show my comments for that. DS was fair and good and it is weaker perk now.
And no, i am also playing as PH, Myers, Leatherface. This killers are not strongest killers in game, normal killers.
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Nemesis needs like one, maybe 2 changes.
- When you infect a survivor (not damage them) they should not get a speed boost.
- They should nerf the infection rate addons, and give him some of that base kit. Not like a lot, but just a small like 15-25% boost so those addons don't feel required.
The problem with the first point, is that if survivors just hold w (ah yes the amazing holding of w) they can waste about 1 minute of the his time before they go down. Goodbye all the gens. Survivors already get 3 health states on the m2, outside of that, he is an m1 killer. Zombies are cool but unreliable. Given that he has 0 mobility and map pressure, he needs his counter to not just be "hold w" without any thought put into it.
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He’s low-A, but they’ve got to work on the A.I and how it prioritizes certain things, while also making it so survivors don’t get a sprint burst when they get infected.
That and he’s perfectly fine.
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Personally i wish T3 nemesis equiped his rocketlauncher
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In regards to the zombies I recall Janick saying they chose two as it was what the game would support and it wouldn’t relegate too much of the threat the killer poses to bots which essentially are rng.
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No offense here, genuine question. Do you really think 5 meters is too long? 6, if he's tiered up all the way?
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Okay. That is good. But leatherface is not normal.
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The PTB was exactly like this. One thread wanted Nemesis nerfed, the next thread wanted him buffed. I just assumed that it was like this every time they released a new killer. This community can't come together on anything, lol.
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So should he be boring?
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I think my issue is that at times he can land a hit across debris which makes him kind of hard to deal with. Maybe if he was more consistent with what he can actually reach across. I was hit standing behind a crate that was taller than my survivor but with a flat table between us he couldn't land a hit. I guess it's more his hit inconsistency than his reach. So to answer I guess it really isn't considering Huntress can actually cross map survivors.
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Yes, I understand that completely, since I see many people complaining about his hitboxes being inconsistent when trying to hit over objects. But you have to think, even a killer like Pyramid Head can just hit completely through any solid wall. Nurse can blink them. Spirit can just phase around and listen for you while you can't see her.
I'm glad you ended up realizing it's not so much the reach though. When people refine their ideas about killers' strengths and flaws, we as a community can voice our complaints more thoroughly and hopefully get some good changes. I'm personally of the belief while he may not be absolute garbage, he is on the lower end of killers for sure. I think he could use a slight improvement in some area. Even if it's just his hitbox consistencies.
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I appreciate you asking respectfully. I feel like certain killers take too many options away from survivors like the killers you named and I just want a balance for the game. Maybe I'm looking for the impossible but you and I came to an understanding so an equal understanding on both sides might be possible.
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He should be strong. Being looped to death is boring
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I think he needs to not give Survivors a speed boost when he infects them.
I think they need to fix fhe Zombies AI.
I think they need adjustable amounts of Zombies, 2 of Red Forest isn't enough but two on Hawkins is awful.
I think Tier III needs an extra bonus.
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This is unacceptable. You shouldn't be winning that much!
Now Nemesis is new, you have to learn him. You shouldn't be getting a 4K all the time upon release. He also has intense map pressure, he has 2 helpers on the map giving you info too. He definitely needs no buffs, maybe some nerfs!!
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Survivor's classify weak killers as "balanced" and don't understand why red ranks become the spirit show.
Nemesis is not high B or low A. There are more killers stronger than him than there are weaker.
He is not down in the dumps with trickster, trapper, legion and the boys.
But he also isn't anywhere as good Plague, Huntress, Oni
He's around GF level imo.
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