Make DS Activate Once Per Hook, So Twice In 1 Match
The title says it all. To be a true anti-tunnel perk, you should get 1 for each hook phase. If you don't use it the first time and get hooked a second time, that doesn't give you 2 DS's. That just means you messed up and lost one. You get 1 try per hook state. If they want to tunnel someone off the hook twice, they get stabbed twice.
(Edit: The rules for it stay the same. You touch a gen, touch a totem or heal, it deactivates since you're not being tunneled.)
Comments
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I don't have an argument with that since it disables on everything except exit gates now. I don't think it'll see additional use but it would be a nice little change.
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I've been hoping for this change. I just have some curse on me with killers, like yesterday a rank 1 killer hardcore tunneled me and messaged "EZ noob haha first one to die". Like c'mon now really?
With the new restrictions put onto it, I really see no harm into making it more efficient at what it does.
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Short answer: No.
- It's fine
- They did it for a reason
- It's more balanced
- It was too strong compared to other anyway.
- It was ised in unintended ways
- Bad players get carried by it.
It doesnt deserve or warrant a second usage. Its stun wasnt even nerfed.
"it got nerfed but the devs have to give it a huge buff to compensate"
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1 try per hook state incase you really ARE being tunneled, should activate per state then. If no one is tunneling, they won't have to worry about getting hit twice, will they? It was nerfed because it was being abused. The devs want it to be anti-tunnel. If you get stabbed once then get downed again then rehooked on your second hook state, you should be able to use it once more after being unhooked incase the killer still wants you out of the game quickly. You can't touch a gen or heal yourself since it deactivates upon doing so.
The only thing this will do will make it so it actually does it's job. Before, that would be a terrible idea but if a survivor wants to do ######### all for 40-50 seconds, more power to them. If a killer really just wants to tunnel that guy, that killer will be taught a lesson twice in a row to not do that. It's a simple change. Let me rephrase this a little better. If you don't use DS on the first hook then get a second hook, you don't get 2 ds's. You only get 1 per hook. If you get hooked a second time and didn't use it, you lost that one.
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They did it for a reason, -back when it worked off of being picked up without requiring to be hooked first-.
They kept it for a reason, -back when it didn't get deactivated by doing literally anything that helps the survivors-.
But the perk is now incredibly conditional and ONLY serves to hinder tunnelling. The fact that it only works once is entirely unreasonable.
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Since all the changes it got and since there are other perks doing similar things while those are working for each hook I think it would be just fair.
So yea, sign me in for this change
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Okay
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No thank you
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"They did it for a reason" is not a good argument, this is BHVR :D
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How about you learn to lead the killer on a chase after getting a 5 second head start because you were allowed to escape the killer for free after he literally outplayed you twice?
Good survivors make massive use of this perk. They barely need safeguards in the first place because they have the skill to turn a 5 second head start into a huge chase.
That's the value DS gives you. It literally allows you to undo the fact the killer outplayed you to down and hook you and then downed you again to give you an extra health state for you to work with. If you can't work with it, that should not punish the killer, and the game shouldn't hand hold you.
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Not everything in this game is down to personal skill. There's plenty of issues that can occur that can leave someone unable to fight back, like context key errors, bad hitboxes, latency and errors on the part of other survivors.
DS ONLY works if the killer is on your tail before you can do -anything-. It's perfectly fair to have it activate twice per match as opposed to the arbitrary once per match it is now.
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Context key errors: A mistake on the player's part, should not punish the opposing player and reward the player that made the mistake.
Bad hitboxes: Hitboxes are fine. it's a cone in front of the killer, and the animation is just cosmetic, once you understand that you know how to play around it. It's a skill survivors should learn.
Latency: A true issue, BHVR should fix their servers. However no reason to punish the killer and reward a survivor that got outplayed, and you can more or less account for latency once you experience one hit with weird latency.
Errors on the part of other survivors: Survivors have to work as a team, even if most of them just can't. There's a reason their actions are cooperative. A mistake on your team's part should not punish the killer taking advantage of it.
DS is still massively powerful, good survivors can still be aggressive while using it, and it's especially devastating during late and endgame. The rest is up to you as a survivor. My point still stands, if you're unable to turn a 5 second head start (plus however long the killer took to down you in the first place) into a good chase that buys your team time, then that is 100% totally on you, and you have no reason to deserve that kind of safeguard twice in a match.
Let me be clear with this again: Nobody, not killers, not survivors, should get massively impactful safeguards that literally negate the fact they got outplayed unless they actually require them to do something demanding. Like Pop, for instance, regresses a gen, but it requires you to outplay your opponent and win a chase. More of a reward for your good job than a safeguard from mistakes, unlike DS, or even Spirit Fury.
Imagine, BT and DS giving you essentially 3 health states while you have to do NOTHING other than hit a skill check and still think that you need more.
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How is it a mistake on the player's part if the game is not functioning as it should? Standing under a pallet for a full second without the context key popping up, mashing up against the window and the game delaying its activation so you miss a running vault, those are 'player errors'?
'Hitboxes are fine', have you ever, even once, played a match against a Huntress where you did NOT get hit through a solid obstacle? Because I haven't.
Latency: So it shouldn't punish the killer, but it SHOULD punish the survivor. Gotcha. Also, no, you can't account for latency because it is not a consistent factor. Just had a match where a Plague caught me because her lag image circled clockwise while the actual Plague went counterclockwise, leading me to run into her. She hadn't been lagging up until that point. And no, she didn't double back, I saw her rubberband into me.
Errors on the part of other survivors: It does blow a hole in your idea that any time the survivor is downed, it was due to an outplay on the killer's part.
DS is still massively powerful, good survivors can still be aggressive while using it, and it's especially devastating during late and endgame.
It is really not, because it comes at the expense of you being unable to act otherwise. It is designed to keep killers from tunnelling and currently it just fails to do that because one five second stun means the perk is gone and that's a big ol' green light for tunnelling.
Let me be clear with this again: Nobody, not killers, not survivors, should get massively impactful safeguards that literally negate the fact they got outplayed unless they actually require them to do something demanding. Like Pop, for instance, regresses a gen, but it requires you to outplay your opponent and win a chase. More of a reward for your good job than a safeguard from mistakes, unlike DS, or even Spirit Fury.
Killers have far, FAR more perks with little investment and massive pay-off. Their entire board is littered with perks that are easy to trigger, if they even have a trigger, that make things considerably more difficult on survivors. Should we also remove Ruin? I'm All Ears? Corrupt Intervention?
Imagine, BT and DS giving you essentially 3 health states while you have to do NOTHING other than hit a skill check and still think that you need more.
Imagine being dumb enough to get baited into a DS not once, but twice. Talk about getting outplayed.
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Wow! Tunneling is just a big part of a wining strategy as splitting up on gens is its a 4 v 1
Period
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Correct, but using a perk to dissuade someone from doing so is also a part of the game and should be improved to reflect that decision instead of half-assing it. I speak from both sides of the spectrum. Sometimes you have to remove someone later in the match but doing so at 5 gens just because you suck at the game shouldn't be rewarded with 1 DS then doing it all over again after they get unhooked and the killer is just chilling in their face. I play killer as a Rank 1 and I don't do that ######### at the beginning of the match and I usually 3k-4k depending on if I'm feeling nice. So why is it that others' can just face camp someone, someone busts their ass to unhook them just for that killer to still chase, get DS'd and continue but only once? It's still doing its job at 2 and it still deactivates if you do anything that forwards the game. It's not old DS.
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I feel what you're saying but I've also been on the receiving end of ######### survivors who don't run BT and while being chased by the killer then I get downed then immediately picked up. I'm defenseless. Then the guy does it again and I go down again because I STILL have no control over who unhooks me with what. THAT is my issue. And my favorite, a killer just face camping you because you outran them then they immediately slam you back down because no one seems to run BT every match at Rank 1. I can tell you this now, it doesn't feel good when you did nothing but do your best, just to get ######### over by the killer or a survivor then you die and derank without a fair shake. What if as a killer, you could get blinded without a timer just because the survivor could blind you whenever they felt like it?
They tried that and removed it but its the same concept. No one likes to feel jaded due to anothers' actions. You can play how you LIKE. You can TUNNEL and CAMP all you like. I'm all for doing whatever the player wants but don't look me in the face and say face ######### someone then getting them downed immediately after because the survivor didn't have BT took skill or you deserved that down because you outplayed an immobile player. You might as well say you beat a disabled player at basketball because you made 3 shots but the guy can't move his arms.
(Edit: Also, those who have DS cannot do ANYTHING because it disables the perk. It's not OLD DS.)
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This game is certainly not killer sided and camping/tunneling only you get you 1-2k if the survivors take advantage of it. You're exaggerating.
However a 2nd dstrike against persistent tunnelers would be great.
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Hahaha, ######### no. These suggestions are actual trolls. Please realize that this game has 2 sides, not only survivor with an AI killer. So ignorant, even as a survivor main this is so dumb. Especially "killer-sided". Anyone who has played for more than a month know killers are significantly weaker.
Weak bait, 2/10
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You calling me a troll? When your account is 2 weeks old?
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This is a very bad Idea. If you have been around awhile you would understand why.
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Actually, if you've been around a while, you might misunderstand. DS was finetuned to fulfill its purpose more precisely.
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Period.
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You're arguing the same point, so eloquently.
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I've been playing DBD for 4 and a half years. I've seen it all. Rubber-band basement, getting stuck inside of hooks, double BT for both the unhooker and the unhooked, 6 second SB and the list goes on.
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If you make it happen twice, it has to come down on time. perhaps 25 seconds or so. The emblems did some to deter tunneling, but I understand your overall point. Reduce the stun by 1s and reduce the time its active to 25 seconds and you could have 2 charges of it. That might work.
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It wouldn't work. DS is meant for anti-tunnel. You do ANYTHING to progress the game and you lose DS automatically for that hook state. If you don't do ANYTHING for 50-60 seconds, you're literally helping the killer kill your teammates if he's not chasing you since you're doing nothing to progress the game for your team. Doing this would make it shine as a true anti-tunnel perk but at the same time, if they want to do gens, they still lose the protection. It's only purpose is to stop tunneling. If you touch a gen, do a totem, heal or heal someone else, it deactivates. This isn't old DS.
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Here you go since some people don't know the perk was changed awhile back.
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I think that DS should work like pigs bear traps, if you are in a chase the timer doesn’t go down. This way you won’t feel obligated to have to use it in under a minute, and the killer can’t simply wait it out if you are in chase.
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That would be abused by survivors. They would just circle around the killer while they're chasing someone else to keep the timer going. Once everyone has DS, one person could break away and do gens while the other 3 are just being #########. It would just make old DS reappear in a different form.
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Fair, I guess one way they could combat this is to only have one active at a time, but even then I could see that causing problems now.
IMO, DS isn’t an anti-tunneling perk as it only buys you a minute at most.
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If you looped the killer for over a minute without using DS, it did its' purpose. If you get downed shortly and ds him then run away for another 30 seconds, that is still a lot more time than what you would have had without it. It isn't about keep the killer away. It's about making the game a bit fairer so you get a chance to actually get points and a pip. No one likes to get unhooked without BT then while still unable to move, get downed again then rehooked. People who say you should have not got caught when the purpose of the game is for you to go down at some point; it's a flawed argument.
I just want DS to have 1 use per hook. If you miss it on the first one, sucks to be you. If you hit it, you should be able to at least extend the chase a bit longer so your team can knock out gens. IF you are not being chased, get healed then do gens. Don't waste your teams' time by trying to get the killer to chase you just because you have DS. That isn't the reason for DS. A gen takes 1 minute and 20 seconds, I believe with 1 person. 60 seconds means you should have at least 3 gens close to popping if the killer wants to tunnel for another minute on the same guy. Extending that time any farther, and you punish the killer harshly for just trying to kill someone.
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Very fair, I totally see your point
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Your account is that old and you genuinely believe this? If you're not trolling, then I really don't think you belong in this community. You're just actively hurting one side of the community because you act as if this is a one-sided game, and of course it's your side.
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You haven't been here long enough to know what side I'm on. You won't last long here with that type of attitude towards others. I believe in balance and fairness for both sides.
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Okay, I guess I didn't understand what you meant when you said context key errors. Yeah the game not functioning properly is no one's fault. It affects both killers and survivors, but the devs shouldn't just reward either side because the other got robbed of something.
Huntress's hatchets have a bit too wide a hitbox sure, but for the most part that's latency. And on the topic of latency, it affects both killers and survivors. It shouldn't reward or punish either because it's not something a player can control. It just so happens that it sometimes punishes people in certain things which is a mess up on BHVR's part. Still it's no excuse to award survivors a massively powerful safeguard.
Errors on other survivors that the killer capitalizes on 100% means that the killer is capable of capitalizing on your team's* mistakes. Note that again, as survivors, you work as a team, your objective gets completed as a team and you live and die as a team. I'm sorry the solo Q experience is pitiful, it doesn't change the fact survivors are a team and their mistakes and their successes are for their team. Again, it's no excuse to give each individual survivor a massive safeguard because their team might screw up. Because this literally breaks the balance of the game when you have survivors who are actually competent.
Yes, this is a massive problem with this game where both sides get ridiculous perks that safeguard them or do something massively impactful for no reason. We don't need to add more to the pool of perks that do this #########. The most powerful a perk like this should be is something like Iron Will or Enduring. Both of those give you a benefit for making a mistake but they're arguably not that impactful by themselves. I don't think Ruin is like that though, it requires you to apply decent pressure on gens. If you're bad at pressuring gens then you don't get value through it and survivors with mild coordination can get through it. (BT is a necessary evil, unfortunately, and so is current DS).
It's not even about being bated, mate, it's about survivors getting a powerful safeguard from their mistakes. It's ridiculous design. The instance I gave you is literally a survivor getting 3 healthstates, however long they take to get, because they got downed, hooked, unhooked by a teammate who put a jpeg on their loadout, hit again and downed again and the hardest thing: hit a skillcheck... 3 healthstates is too much for this requirement. It's BS, and you want this to be possible twice in a match.
DS is still powerful and it is a good safeguard. It's just not busted like it was before, and because it's not busted, some survivors are complaining that they don't get to have their cake and eat it too.
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And give survivors an even more powerful endgame? No thank you, the perk was nerfed for a reason and needs no further changes as of this moment.
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Capitalizing on someone else's mistakes because I'm in a match with them and they don't have BT or the knowledge to take a hit, means I should pay for THIER mistake even though I'M running BT and try my best not to let the killer see me? No, that's not fair to the guy who was literally farmed off the hook. That didn't take skill or anything. DS is a second chance for 60 seconds if you don't help progress the match any farther for those 60 seconds. It literally deactivates.
The only this does is punish someone for getting an easy down on someone who was pretty much defenseless. If BT was reversed, no one would care then but it doesn't. I shouldn't be punished for another survivor's stupidity. Also, if you attack me right after and I get BT, that was YOUR choice to try to down someone who couldn't do literally anything while they was unhooked. That isn't SKILL. We are IMMOBILE until we can move. No BT or the killer is face camping you? I guess the killers' skill was high enough to down me after I can finally push a button.
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Survivors are a team. Survivors work as a team. Survivors share an objective as a team. They live and die as a team. Again, I'm sorry solo Q sucks, and you get farmed. It's unfortunate. Matchmaking is #########, this is an issue that 100% needs addressing.
However, people tend to play better, and the better people play the more these safeguards become busted.
It's neither the killer's fault nor your fault that you got farmed, but your team (you included) is the one that suffers the consequences of your team's mistakes. This is the case in every team based. You cannot punish the other team because your team sucks, and you cannot have the game safeguard you against your teams mistakes to the detriment of the other team, because eventually when your team doesn't suck, your safeguards become busted.
Also, shoutout to survivors that bodyblock with BT making it literally impossible to not go for the unhooked survivor.
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Downing someone who was just unhooked instead of chasing the unhooker shouldn't be rewarded if you have a perk. It should be 1 DS per hook state. I remember when you could blind a killer during the pick up animation then afterwards, they would drop the survivor no matter the timing. It was removed quickly because it was deemed unfair. This is the same concept. A killer should earn his down, not given a free one due to a teammate while the person is immobile. DS doesn't help a survivor in any way except to get away from the killer if the killer chooses to keep going after that survivor instead of the unhooker.
If it was old DS, I would agree with you. It was oppressive and I was one of the few who wanted it changed for years. This new DS seems to fit the bill perfectly but 1 activation per match needs to be removed. It's only purpose is to keep the killer from insta-downing you right after an unhook. You can't do anything else, or it deactivates. That's my point. It's not broken but if you think the only way to win as killer is down someone who was literally just unhooked, that's flawed.
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if you go work a gen, then the killer comes to you, that is not being tunneled. I am positive you are confused about what I said. gl in your quest for ds change buddy.
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If you're working on a gen, DS automatically deactivates. You do realize that? The moment you touch ANYTHING, it deactivates. It's only purpose is to discourage tunneling. It's not 60 seconds of invincibility anymore. If a killer sees you on a gen after you got unhooked, you're free game.
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I don't think he does realise that, I think he's unaware that it's had all its offensive use nerfed out of it.
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I play killer at night when my kids sleeping, and survivor during the day. I would honestly say, ds activating twice isn't a huge deal for me. I rarely go after the unhooked because of the chance of ds or bt. Always go after the unhooked, cause then neither of those will really proc anyways. Also I when I use ds as survivor as luck would have it, I'm usually the last one hooked with no one to save me.
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A lot of people don't seem to know that it was changed. Old DS really scarred some people lol.
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I wouldn't mind it working after both hooks as long as it deactivates once all generators are done.
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All I see is a lot of crying survivors have enough 2nd chances u get tunneled at 5 gens suck it up. And stop crying and just get better
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- Judging by the market increase in tunneling, it is not fine.
- BHVR did it so you don't have 1 minute of invulnerability. This buff has nothing to do with that.
- It can be improved to address the current off-the-hook tunneling meta, that the Current DS does nothing about
- It was unbalanced when it gave you 1 minute of invulnerability. This buff doesn't change that.
- Yes. Again, this buff doesn't allow it to be used in unintended ways.
- No. Good players took advantage of the invulnerability, which was removed. Bad players didn't get carried by it.
It does warrant a second usage because of the new tunnel-off-the-hook meta and because it doesn't deter tunneling now. The nerf unintendingly made DS useless against tunneling, because before, killers respected DS more and because DS was used more.
And to address this final argument. "It got nerfed by the devs have to give it a huge buff to compensate", let's just look at Hex:Ruin and how powerful it became after it's "nerf". Plus, if you over nerf a meta perk that was preventing an undesired behavior (tunneling) and all the sudden tunneling comes back with a vengence, then that meta perk will need to be buffed to reduce the undesired behavior (tunneling).
The Dev's already tried adding a default object of obsession to try and nerf tunneling and that didn't work. Tunneling is in the game but obviously the Dev's feel that it makes survivor players not want to play the game, so they wanted a counter to it. Plus, it's a crutch that bad killers use. A good killer just doesn't need to tunnel, in almost all but very specific situations. And tunneling shouldn't be a guaranteed free kill for killers either.
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