Revert Franklin's Nerf
Comments
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Which would make it a decent Nemesis perk? I don't get this decision at all.
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It still makes no sense to nerf an entire perk over the specific mechanics that only appear with one specific killer still. If they really wanted to nerf the perk, regardless if it broke the vaccines or not, then why not roll out the nerf side by side with the key rework? Because until that goes live, as it stands now there's no hard counters to them now.
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As someone who plays both roles, this change to Franklin’s was poorly thought out of. I usually play Nurse so this won’t affect me too much, but you can bet I will now be dodging if I see keys as a killer I want to chill with, or just switch roles completely until this is fixed!
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Franklin's nerf is not an indirect buff to keys cause Franklin was never a counter to keys.
If you won a match by camping the key with Franklins you most likely would have won the match regardless of keys.
Not to mention that survivors could just drop the key somewhere safe and franklins did nothing.
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Well you only slap on Franklins when there is a key, but now the only counter is tunneling the key person. This is bad for everyone just make it not work on the vaccine what is the problem??
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We already had a perk that destroyed item charges!!!!!!
NOBODY CARES ABOUT CHARGES!!!!
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This Dev team is either bad at coding.....or
Archeage levels of out of touch with the game and playerbase.
This change is the equivalent of burning down an entire house just to kill 1 spider hiding under a cabinet......
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It achieved a lot actually, especially against flashlight users trying to buy time at pallets, and people who crutched med kits, and the guy who now has to go back and find his toolbox with Brand New Part in it. ^ In every single one of those instances (which is extremely frequent) Franklins just bought the killer a lot of time, and in some cases a free down for people trying to disrespect and scramble back for the item they just dropped in the same chase.
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How will this update to Franklin's change that in any way?
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That seems difficult to find out 😅
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this is horsepoop, they should have made the vaccine item bound to the survivors until they use it or have it as immediate use as soon as they pick it up. i mean, wasn't the point of 4 vaccines only that using them has risk?
at this rate just modify the game so that survivors run around the map, do the objectives, open the door and get out, while the killer is immediately disconnected at the beginning of the match with entity displeased. (oh wait the "In order to access this content, a network connection is required." error already f*s us like this, 5+ minute bans included.
srsly, the direction this game is headed... sad.
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Because you can still take advantage of certain items with zero charges. Thats why nobody bothered with Overwhelming Presence.....<--cause charges mean ######### all....
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Soo uhh.. hmm.. what about.. Hex perks?? Survivors can literally take away entire perks but ya call other people delusional lol. This isn't even considering the fact that the killer loses their add-ons EVERY game if they don't use a very rare offering lol
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Overwhelming Presence was actually decent if you hate flashlights. Pallet and Pickup blinds mean the survivor is almost always in the terror radius so their batteries drain twice as fast.
But Lightborn is a better anti-flashlight perk though since it provides complete immunity to flashlights.
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Why is it such a big deal if survivor lose their item?
Friend pointed this out to me: Because some items are only attainable in a very short timespan. You don't want your event toolbox or flashlight to get destroyed by a niche perk like that. This change allows people to salvage them.
I do agree however that this should've come with a nerf to make keys no longer open a hatch if they're drained of charges to keep FD's interaction with keys the same.
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Also, to add to the convo, I didn't use Franklin's with keys in mind. Having it on helps in those situations but I primarily used it for adding pressure. Survivors can't help but go back for their items, even if they are injured, especially when they know they will disappear; it can be a grey medkit and they still want it.
I use it with Blight because it allows me to apply map pressure in an RP type of way. Blight is all about greed. gluttony, addiction and so my build is Franklins (to draw out the survivor's inner golem), Hex Ruin(to motivate them to look for pretty totems), and Retribution, Undying (because they can't resist the shiny bones but the bps come at a price). I can knock an item out of someone's hand run to a gen, hit someone, run back to that item and surprise there is a survivor I originally hit. Repeating this allows me to pull survivors in more and more, all the while if they just did gens and left their items my whole plan falls apart.
Everyone makes good points from a balance perspective and the vaccine reasoning is WEAK and lazy sounding.
I am most upset about these changes from a fun/lore perspective.
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I am just half thorough this thread but had to answer you.
Franklin's didn't destroy items but made survivor more predictable. Most survivor won't let their item go and simply patrolling by the dropped item gives many chances for hits and dropping the item instantly again. Survivor behaved like headless chicken and ran back to their item even mid hade to reset the timer and get downed in the end which wasn't a clever tradeoff.
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So what if it does? That doesn't mean that you should nerf an entire thing just for it!
The better solution would've been for the devs to hard code Vaccines to not be destroyed by Franklin's Demise rather than to just nerf the ability so hard that Keys are just impossible to beat now.
But if the devs don't want to code it so Vaccines aren't destroyed, then the better solution is to nerf Keys so that if it's hit by Franklin's Demise and all charges are lost, it should become a Broken Key.
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I'm fine with people being able to pick up their useless item again and escape with it, if it matters so much to them, but, socially, this is such a tone deaf thing to do. Keys are too strong, the community's been asking to change them for years, we're promised that a change is coming in the future... and then, in the meantime, let's revert Franklin's instead so that your key is invincible.
This is also another example of a poor communication strategy -- knowing that something is going to make the community mad, and then deliberately not mentioning it until the patch notes. That's not how you get out in front of an issue.
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There is always the possibility that you lose your event-item bc you die. I wouldnt use it if i have only a few. With the current franklin the chance is still high that another survivor will take it.
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As a survivor and a killer I heavily dislike the new Franklin's
The drain rate is significant enough that pretty much by the time you get anything back it will have lost a significant portion of it's charges.
This means flashlights and medkits will lose a significant portion of their usage while toolboxes and keys are barely affected.
Toolboxes you can just use all their charges at the start of the match and you're not missing much.
Keys work even with no charges
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That remember me when they nerf pig's reverse trap with then endgame collapse.
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I don't see it as a nerf... if a survivor or other survivor found the item before the timer went out, then the killer would have to hit said survivor and wait for the timer to go on again, now if the item depletes its charges is a good thing because let's suppose they bring a flashlight, at least in that way the flashlight will lose charges until they pick it up again.
And yes, survivors who used keys always drop them in certain spot... that way Franklin did nothing about it so no... Franklin didn't counter keys because first survivors are not stupid and second they can be found in chest so it wasn't like "Oh yeah! Key destroyed, now they can't escape" they could always find a key somewhere else.
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I thought from the description of the perk that the perk will drain charges and when you pick that item back it will have lower charges 100% unless you pick it right away which would be impossible unless someone runs for your items after you /which would be dumb in general/. This somehow leave absolutely zero counter to NOT lose charges when I think about it in normal gameplay which is terrible ..... So I pick a brown medkit with the idea to heal once I get hit and suddenly I can no longer heal to full with it even if I run to it which would actually cost me time that wont be worth for what is left from the medkit
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I still think the charges thing is stronger than people think. If it gets interrupted like it did before it's still overall slowly dealing with the problem. It also makes people who bring medkits potentially not get full heals, meaning you can down them more. Keys are not as big of a problem as a lot of people make them out to be. I can tell you now, you do not see one of them every match. If you do, you either have the worst of luck, playing KYF, or you are lying and ignoring the matches without keys.
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Out of curiosity, did any dev explain why they didn't want this behavior in the game? And didn't instead just add a few more spawns to compensate for franklin's just being innately good on nemesis?
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More Vaccines would be awful and not a good fix.
It wouldn't solve the issue that Franklin's can destroy vaccines and would make it so Nemesis would feel force to run Franklin's to remove vaccines. Vaccines are really strong when survivors use them early as they grant an extra hit against Tentacle Strike and Zombies while proving an extra speed boost in chase. Very easy to force Nemesis to take a long time to down survivors in the early game which means gens will fly.
Honestly the Franklin's change isn't bad. It's now more useful at stopping items like toolboxes and med-kits that survivors generally want their full charges too. Keys are likely an oversight that can be easily fixed by preventing a key from being able to open hatch at 0 charges.
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Honestly I only virally infect people as nemesis until I hit stage 2, after that I stop caring and just go 'man with raw fists' and use the tentacle as a fast pallet break. So the counterplay is completely wasted based on the way I play, but thats a good point for more power based Nemesis'
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Those event items are collectables, you're not actually supposed to use them, they're like reskins of worse items. With the exception of the old fireworks which at this point can be left in the closet because survivors now have infinite flash bangs that you can put on the ground and give to other survivors.
If they really wanted these old items to be a non issue they'd make them item skins.
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Then they could have made Vaccine not considered a Item; and make it not count as dropped item! Instead of reworking the perk entirely to being weaker and similar to old Franklin's Demise! It is a pointless change, and hurts the only perk that has potential to destroy specific items like Keys!
Item degrading is so slow and not too mention, you can still used a Key with no charges at all, to open the Black Lock Hatch to escape!
Revert the changes; and make the Vaccine function different then a regular Item! Heck, they could have make the Dropped Vaccine glow bright on the ground (aura reading) for other Survivors to find and see and the Entity is unable to destroy it, despite being drop on the ground!
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What difference does it make to you as a killer if a survivor has no medkit vs the survivor having a medkit with 0 charges? I agree that this means a problem if survivors have a key. An easy fix would be not allowing survivors to open hatch if the key has no charges (or a minimum required amount of charges). They anounced changes for keys anyways so hopefully we don't have to wait long.
But besides keys, it's actually a buff, because before the change, if a survivor managed to come back for the item they would recover it intact, but now when you go back for the item (if you manage to come back in time) you will lose charges every time. So it actually does more damage to survivors than before. And i think being able to take the item with you to the next match if you survive is nice and a good qol change.
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The issue is that it removes the pressure Franklin's use to apply. If a survivor knows they aren't going to lose their item, they will just come back for it later. It is so rare that an item makes it very long at all with its charges nowadays that having Franklin's reducing them is only useful for like the first 60 seconds of a match.
The whole value it brought was that it put pressure on the survivor and forced them to make a decision, add in the incidental buff to keys and this perk becomes useless again while actually buffing survivor gameplay.
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Since when was this a thing? Cause spine chill ruins stealth killers and calm spirit f's doctor
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Rizzo, with all due respect, this doesn't make any sense to just nerf everything else because of the vaccines. I'm pretty sure the developers could have just made an exception to vaccines against Franklin's. They are their own rarity, so players would know what Franklin's doesn't destroy — they could still make them drop but not get devoured by the Entity.
However, to avoid all the trouble and programming, survivors shouldn't be holding on to the vaccines since they risk Nemesis having Franklin's. Smart players would just use the vaccine after they get it from the Umbrella chest. The perk doesn't need to be touched, people just need to accept the consequences if they hold on to it and get hit with Franklin's.
I support the developers, but this is something I believe could've been avoided or done differently.
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Who cares if the vaccine is destroyed by Franklins? They don't have a great impact on the match result. God forbid Franklins has slight synergy with Nemesis's power? The vaccines are by no means critical to the survivors defeating Nemesis, and they would have plenty of time to pick them up before Franklins destroyed them. Not to mention, there are FOUR vaccines.
As others have stated earlier, most of the time survivors use the vaccines immediately after looting them from the supply chests anyways. Terrible change.
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We see your point... However; do you see the point of Keys still being useable with Franklin's now? Maybe consider changing keys to become broken keys once they are reduced to zero charges... OR for vaccines... make the opening crate animation and using the syringe all one action.
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