An update to The Twins
BAse Kit Changes
- Victor is no longer killed by standing on high ground
- He will die if he is on high ground when he returns control to Charlotte
The devs have yet to be able to code this feature successfully.
It either results in Victor dying when he shouldn't or Victor running on top of ######### regardless.
Just let him do it. He can't do drop attacks, so there's no harm in it so long as he can't go idle up there.
- Decreased successful pounce CD from 5 seconds to 3
- Increased missed pounce CD from 3 seconds to 5
It makes no sense to punish Twins for playing well.
With this, he's less likely to get punted after a down, but basically guaranteed to get punted after a miss.
- Reworked the Twins' anti-camping mechanism
- The Twins are no longer prevented from changing control if either active Twin is near a hooked survivor.
- If a dormant Twin is left within 18 meters of a hooked survivor, they will automatically follow the active Twin until they are 18 meters from the hook.
The current system is ineffective and intrusive.
It doesn't stop people from camping by just hooking near an already-idle Victor, but it does stop Twins from playing normally in the same general vicinity of a hook.
This version of the mechanism is made possible by the pathing AI implemented for Nemesis' zombies, and it should actually work.
- The Twins no longer have collision with one another.
- If Victor pounces into Charlotte, the Twins will reunite.
- If Charlotte presses M2 while Victor is idle, she will recall him.
- Victor can now induce a dormant Charlotte to sleepwalk towards him by tapping Space (toggled, 3 m/s base speed)
This vastly improves the Twins' ability to work as a unit, since they can now more easily move together rather than being forced to perpetually leave one twin behind.
Sleepwalking in particular has some major implications for the Twins' gameplay.
If Victor gets punted after a pounce, Charlotte can pick up chase or scare off a would-be savior.
If a survivor just jumps in a locker, that doesn't work at all now.
If Victor gets a down, Charlotte doesn't have to cross the map to pick them up; she's already a large portion of the way there.
- If Victor is kicked from idle or after a miss, the grow time is increased from 6 seconds to 15.
- If he was manually recalled or removed after a latch, the regrow time is unchanged.
Now that a missed pounce doesn't necessarily mean the end of a chase, this change exists to make sure Charlotte can't just spam out zombie children to attack people.
- Decreased base Pounce charge time from 1 seconds to 0.75
Decreases her reliance on Toy Sword, meaning you can actually do add-on combos on this killer.
Add-on Changes
(unmentioned add-ons are unchanged)
- Toy Sword
- -5 seconds to regrow Victor
Needed changing due to the old Sword being made baseline. This makes it less crippling to have Victor kicked, while making it basically instant to regrow him if everything is under control.
- Cat Figurine
- Effect unchanged, but with reduced reticle opacity
This add-on literally makes short range pounces harder by obstructing your entire screen with a white beam. This is not a good learning add-on.
- Ceremonial Candelabrum
- Once Victor can be manually recalled, latched survivors are hindered by 7.5%
- -1 m/s Sleepwalking speed
The current version makes it marginally more punishing to remove Victor near Charlotte, and makes him marginally harder to kill. It's such a small difference that it doesn't really do much.
This version forces survivors to remove Victor ASAP, because being 92.5% speed while being pursued by Charlotte is not something you can risk. The resulting animation lock is something you might be able to take advantage of.
- Cat's Eye
- +1 m/s sleepwalking movement speed
There's probably some use for the current Eye if you're ambushing as Victor, but that is such a massive waste of time that I basically consider it useless.
- Baby Teeth
- Applies a Deep Wound if Victor is removed from a survivor (by them or through recall)
The old effect was just pathetic.
- Sewer Sludge
- +2 seconds to remove Victor
- -10 seconds before Charlotte can manually recall a latched Victor
A problem with this is that you don't really want survivors to take longer to remove Victor. You want him back ASAP.
Also, if they just held him hostage and made you recall him, you get no value anyways.
This version helps with that.
- Rusted Needle
- Pounces apply Hemorrhage and Mangled until healed.
Victor makes unique use of extra bleeding, but it's still not great. Slap on Mangled and you get some concrete value out of it.
- Victor's Soldier
- Survivors who attempt to kick Victor after a successful pounce will be automatically pounced on.
Kicking an idle Victor gives survivors the power on the old version of the add-on, and it was just incredible niche.
This version should give survivors an "oh #########" moment, either resulting in them getting latched or downed if they try to get cheeky.
- Iridescent Pendant
- While latched, Victor's shrieks are global.
Similar to soldier, the old version of this add-on is garbage (even after the buffs).
This is just incredible. Global tracking on every latch, so long as the survivors are walking around.
Comments
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I really like these. Still allows Twins to snowball via slugging, nerfs their camping and tunneling potential, and makes them more interesting to play as and against.
Also love the add-on concepts.
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Interesting! As a twins main I can see these being quite viable especially the reuniting aspect with Victor jumping back to Charlotte. People keep underestimating how powerful it can be to have both together sometimes hehe...
I've also been hoping to make Victor latching onto survivors a bit more lethal such as the following:
- Removing Victor now takes 10 seconds from 8 seconds (same as locker removing time)
- Survivors can no longer run while removing him, but walking and standing still is available
This will hopefully make Victor latched onto survivors more viable and somewhat oppressive because as of rn, there's very little benefit onto latching to survivors in certain scenarios. It'll give a bit more room for other strategies while keeping slugging a powerful tool for them.
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You've hit the nail on the head! These are prety much the exact changes the Twins need, and I'm glad that you've made this as more of a rework than just a flat out nerf like most people who get slugged by Victor once suggest. Virtually perfect. Only thing I'd change is equalising both the missed and successful pounce cooldowns to 4 seconds, but that's just a minor thing.
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I like the base changes.
but I also don't really play twins so...
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No. They need to nerf the twins. It’s basically a killer built to tunnel off the hook. It’s a pretty miserable experience for survivors and I was excited about that chapter.
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I like these changes and I consider the Twin's to be one of my top three favorite killers to play. Maybe this will keep people from dcing against them so often.
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...what?
Buffs
- You can use your power near hooks now
- Victor can parkour
- Victor can chain back to back pounces the same way he used to
- Their best add-on is now base
- You can micromanage Charlotte while playing Victor
- Getting Victor killed in chase doesn't mean the end of the chase because Charlotte can follow you
- Hiding in lockers is now meaningless
- You can reunite the Twins to move together
- TONS of add-on buffs
Nerfs
- If you miss a pounce you will probably get kicked (not much different from now)
- If you ######### up and let victor get kicked you lose him for a little bit longer
...what are you smoking and where can I get some?
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I’m deeply sorry, and I’m not attacking you personally, but also being a Twins main myself, I disagree with almost 100% of these suggestions.
Twins are already incredibly strong. Most of these proposed ideas would reintroduce some problems, whilst creating entirely new ones.
Sorry for the harsh criticisms, but a killer of this potential and strength NEEDS to have the very high drawbacks that they currently have.
The only fair thing is for Victor to be destroyed if already idle within a certain radius upon hooking a survivor, in order to curb the current scummy trend of getting around the existing anti camp by planting Victor before hooking.
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I like this! There are some thing that I disagree with but overall I like these changes. Small things like pouncing back into Charlotte can go a long way. While I like the sleep walk mechanic, I feel like it would take away some of the skill needed of knowing where is a good place to be dormat and might make them too good. Great list!
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I like this quite a bit... Probably my favorite Twins suggestion I've seen.
I'd add three things to it:
-Charlotte should be able to attack a survivor that blocks her path, or else there's no indication if you're controlling Victor that Charlotte is being blocked somewhere.
-The transition between Victor and Charlotte should be shorter. At the moment switching back to Charlotte is so slow that it almost kills your ability to do pinching strategies with them. Transitioning faster would just allow a more interesting back and forth stile.
-I think survivors should not be able to kidnap Victor for so long. It's just too much time to have your power removed for no good reason imo. Maybe shorten it to 25 or even 20 seconds, before you can recall Victor from a survivor.
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I really like this! The mental image of seeing Charlotte sleepwalk by the gen I'm doing and hoping that she doesn't wake up is a very cool one.
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