So do survivor's want to be stronger in the 4v1 or in the 1v1?
You can't have it both ways. Do you want to be favoured in the chase aspect or the macro aspect?
Normally as survivors you are suppose to have an advantage in the 4v1, but whenever you get a killer that's really good in the 1v1 the forums are full of people calling for a nerf.
So which one?
Comments
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Are survivors actually asking for buffs? I don't see it very often at all, they just want specific killers (Spirit / Slinger) to have fun meaningful counterplay that isn't guessing.
I can't remember the last time I ever saw "survivors" asking for specific general buffs.
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Both 1v1 and 1v4 need to be considered. I always read that the game is a 1v4, but the 1v1-aspect cannot be ignored, because this is the actual Survivor/Killer-Interaction. And if I go against a Spirit with Stridor, basically nothing from my side matters.
Survivors should not be able to dominate Killers in 1v1 situations, however, their Skill should not be invalidated in 1v1 situations (like it does with Spirit or Deathslinger, as examples).
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You get the odd one asking for buffs, i'm just saying that survivors want to be strong in the 4v1 and the 1v1.
Survivors have an inherent advantage in the 4v1 because they have the numbers. But a lot of them seem to want to be strong in the 1v1 as well and tend not to be a fan of killers who dominate the 1v1
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In 1v1 are you talking about when the killer just found you?
A good soloQ survivor will feel stronger in the 1v1 aspect.
A good survivor in an SWF will feel stronger in both aspects.
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The 1v1 is the chase.
The 4v1 is the broader picture like creating dead zones, generator placement, trying to 3 gen. Stuff like that.
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1v1 is way more fun and is the actual interactive part of dbd.
Nobody wants to be sitting on gens the whole game especially when there are killers with little to no counterplay.
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Do killers want good chase potential or good map pressure? You can’t have it both ways.
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Yeah and the majority of killer's either have none in one category or have a little bit. The only ones that have a strong amount in both are now Nurse and Spirit. Unless you can think of another killer with STRONG map control and chase potential.
So you want survivors to be strong in the 1v1?
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If you make killers stronger in the 1v1, there's a higher chance you won't have to sit on generators the whole trial, because they'll actually have the time to chase you. You'll also be able to perform hook rescues and heals and other stuff more often.
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Not if they make killers that completely counter windows and pallets like Pyramid Head, Nurse, and Spirit, then you'll be on a hook the whole game.
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So killers can't be very strong in the 1v1?
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And before you end up on the hook, you'll have a chase. Survivors don't spawn on hooks, last time I checked.
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For the majority of survivors that play on Solo Q, we don´t really feel the game like a 4 vs 1. It´s more like 1, 1, 1, 1 vs 1. If you what I mean.
Solo Q don´t have communication like SWF.
There are many times where your teammates don´t come in time for a rescue and u die on hook. Or they come with the killer behind and farm you. Or 2 survivors stop gens to come to rescue.
I also remember one game where i discovered the hex: ruin. And killer knew it. He tunneled me hard for that reason. And I couldn´t even tell my teammates where the totem was.
The point is that although the game is survisided on private SWF and only some killers like spirit, nurse or blight can handle a good premade; in public Solo Q games killer have a big advantage over survivors.
And in reply to your question, I´d really like to improve the 4 vs 1 situation giving the solo Q players the chance to exchange information and play like a team. This sistem is present in the majority of the games nowadays. And a command communication system it´s very neccessary. "Come to rescue", "Totem here", " repair that gen (pointing on a radar)...
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The problem is, survivors have huge advantage in 1v4 because of gen speed, especially with coordination in SWF.
So in order for killers to compete in this environment, he has to be so good at ending chase fast. There's no room for survivor/killer interaction because any chase longer than 30 sec is considered a lose for killer. You cannot make a proper gameplay out of this 30 secs.
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You may feel like it's a 1v1v1v1v1, but it still is a 4v1. I agree with giving solo's ways to exchange info to help narrow the gap between solo and swf. But what is the end goal than. If you want survivors to have the advantage in the 4v1, then killers need to be pretty devastating in the 1v1.
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Well you'll have a chase for 15 seconds. I would think most people think that countering the only defenses a survivor has is not healthy for the game.
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What do you think is a reasonable time for a chase than? A time that is sorta in the middle between the killer and the survivor winning
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If the chase takes 15 seconds it's because you ran into a wall or the killer. However, that's not even the point. Either you want all survivors to have things to do besides sitting on generators (particularly, you want them to be chased), or you want chases to be so long that nobody has any choice but to sit on a generator. I'm for the former, and I'm not the one bringing up any times, that's all you.
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I want the game to be functional, i want to have a fair chase not getting hit because the killer lives in a cave in the amazon forest or because the map has temple of purgation basement pallets inside a deadzone.
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Hard to say. As you said in a previous post, a devastating 1 vs 1 killer that finishes pursuits very fast, shouldn´t be so good in 4 vs 1 to compensate. Pyramid head could fit in this description.
On the contrary, we have wraith. He can move very fast along the map, but he can struggle finishing a chase on loopable maps.
One thing I don´t like about the "competitive" part of DBD, is that you always see the same killers: spirit, nurse, blight. Map pressure and good 1 vs 1 killers. And if they can´t repeat killers, you will also see Huntress, Freddy, Onis and a few more.
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You cannot balance like that. If you balance the game for 1 min chase each clown will still lose and spirit and nurse will always win
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Majority of killers have a little bit? The clown who is considered the worst killer by many has very good chase potential. The plague? Deathslinger? All of them are good but lack map pressure. Nurse and spirit are broken, that’s why they have good chases and map pressure.
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Well this is based on top level play, obviously at that point you can slow down gens or do whatever you want to slow down the game but objectively killers like Pyramid Head counter pallets and windows and if he is good enough he can stop basically any chase with 2 easy hits. I'd definitely want chases to last longer than 15 seconds and if they do last longer than that they can nerf gens. This current balance doesn't work for anybody because the average kill rate is too high but objectively survivors are stronger.
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Yes. I think that the Solo Q and SWF are totally different games. Solo Q Survivors just can´t handle a spirit on public games, and a good premade can handle her, but it won´t be ez at all.
The balance of the game should start with giving the solo Q the chance to exchange information and be able to play like a team (improve the 4 vs 1), approaching to the SWF. This process wouldn´t affect to SWF as they will keep on voice communication.
And once you have buffed the solo Q (actually is horrible experience), it´s the time when u can buff or nerf certain killers. The only killer I think needs a nerf is spirit. She is perfect on 1vs1 and 4 vs 1, no matters the map (on difference with nurse, that is very good on open maps but sucks at maps like doctor´s for example).
But said that, any killer can work vs Solo Q nowadays. So in my oppinion, buff solo q, and then buff the weaker killers like clown, plague, trapper, etc,
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I agree with your oppinion. Just looking at Otzdarvas 50 winning streak with more than half of the killers talks by it´s own. You can check it here.
And personally, I prefer having long chases too. It´s the more exciting part of the game.
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I worded that poorly. I meant that most killers are very strong in one area and then have something to help them out with the other aspect.Doctor is a good example. His strength is in chase, shutting down loops and pallets with static blast. He then has Shock Therapy tracking, madness tracking, and madness slowdown to help in the 4v1 aspect. Not very strong by themselves but certainly helpful.Very few killers have all in one category and nothing in the other. The best killers excel in both areas.
A very hard question, i'll probably make a thread on it. But part of the reason why Nurse and Spirit are top tier is they are very strong in both categories. When you have a killer that lacks map control, chases shouldn't be expected to last too long as long as everyone is the same skill level. If you can still buy a lot of time vs a killer in the 1v1 when that is suppose to be the killers strong suit, then what's the point of the killer.
I get that it probably isn't fun to sit there and hold M1 on gens and then get insta downed in a chase, but it also fun to be a killer that has next to zero map control and then have gens fly because one chase went too long because the survivor had an amazing set up.
I personally wish they would play more into the altruism aspect of the game. I have never complained about flashbangs, pallet saves, flash light saves, sabos, or body blocking. They can be incredibly frustrating at the time but that is suppose to be the survivors advantage. They use their numbers against me and win.
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I wouldn't argue Spirit is perfect or even has the best 4v1 game. She has a damn good one but i don't think anyone can beat Hag's 4v1 once she's set up.
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They nerfs flashlights every patch, i doubt they care about that also flashlight saves are more for fun because the one going around with a flashlight is wasting a ton of time.
This game right now has no true way of real balance.
If you buff all killers so that clown can have a chance spirit and nurse become absurdly powerfull. If you buff specific killers to be on par with nurse and spirit you demolish solos and they'd have to rework some maps because they're way too killer sided.
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Most people want chases to be a fair competition where there's always something interesting one side can do against a killer. The problem being that gens can go so fast that survivors can predrop every pallet and screw over every killer or just hold W to waste loads of time with no effort, so the game has to eliminate those two before chases can really be addressed.
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The downside of that is making killers stronger in the 1 V 1 which leads to killers like Spirit or Deathslinger where a survivors skill takes a backseat. That isn't fun either, because it feels like the devs saying your skill shouldn't matter.
Killers like Billy have always been considered the most fun for a reason. Shame BHVr gutted him
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The downside of that is making killers stronger in the 1 V 1 which leads to killers like Spirit or Deathslinger where a survivors skill takes a backseat. That isn't fun either, because it feels like the devs saying your skill shouldn't matter.
The real problem is that a 1v1 is seen as synonymous with "chase". There's more that goes into a 1v1.
Killers like Billy have always been considered the most fun for a reason. Shame BHVr gutted him
I've been here since launch and I can guarantee you there is no killer that hasn't been complained about. The Hillbilly in particular was complained about a lot before his nerf.
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Oh I remember complaining about Billy when I very first started but once you get some experience you realise he's probably the most fun, fair killer they ever added.
There's certain killers where when you hear a complaint you can just tell the person is new and doesn't know how to play yet. Usually worth disregarding those opinions.
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I think that is the general point of the op, but everytime a killer comes out with good chase potential people want a nerf. I.e. the common examples of Deathslinger and PH killers with only chase and no map pressure, or even Freddy a killer with some map pressure and some chase potential but not overwhelming in both.
This is also obvious if you look at the only two S ranked killers in this game being spirit and nurse, who have large amounts of both and can actually compete somewhat with the best swfs.
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Yeah, but you won’t face the best swf everyday.
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Well, you can't be extremely strong in the 1v1, but you can't be hopeless, either. I don't see much that would need to be changed in that way, at the moment, other than getting rid of Bloodlust.
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When it comes to the 1v1 killers are meant to be strong, that's what they are designed for. However survivors want to feel like they can have an impact on how long they last. This doesn't mean they expect a 4/5 minute chase.
I'd like to feel like my experience as a survivor would give me the tools to last a decent bit longer than a rank 20. But vs a Spirit, it really is just a guessing game. I could last 20 seconds, I could last 1 minute I never know.
So to answer the question. I don't want to feel strong in the 1v1 but I want to feel like what I do is calculated and not a guess. I'd rather be stronger in the 4v1 because that requires strategy.
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Pretty sure most people want a good balance between the two.
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This is an interesting video. Sweh is able to run this pig for almost 10 minutes. At one point he even says that this is literally broken, if you watch it closely the pig makes a couple of small mistakes but not bad enough that it should take 10 minutes. No survivor should ever be this strong in a 1v1. Start watching at 5:30
I dont know how they fix that, but its really gross
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U don´t see the clown looping the pig so hard everyday lol. Is that a cosmetic skin or a mod?
Respect to the gameplay, Idk. The survivor looks really good. And although the killer doesn´t look like pretty good at chases, he has just won the match with 3 kills.
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Its even better when you consider
1. He had no perks. So no exhaustion perk.
2. He didn't even loop the beginning pallets at all.
3. After getting hit he still beat pig to hatch on the other side of the map.
With a set up like that it's comical to say the pig had the advantage in the 1v1 that game. If that wasn't a troll game that pig had no chance assuming the other survivors could loop at an average level.
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It was a mod, only he could see the clown skin, everyone else saw Jane 😂
The other survivors were just messing around, it wasnt a serious game, thats why the pig was willing to do the chase.
Sweh is very good, not taking anything away from him, the pig was above average. Not bad, not great. In terms of skill level yes sweh was better.
The point is though the rng was such that there was nothing this pig could have done. What if 2 of the survivors had been as good as sweh and the other 2 had been just decent at the game? The way this stuff spawned in, the number of pallets, the placement of the tiles, the fun bus, sweh himself admits its broken.
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I think pig is MEANT to be better at the 4v1 given her traps, its to bad their weak. But she needs something to help her in a 1v1. Ambush attack only helps against noobs.
Almost any other killer would have been able to use their power in some way. Almost.
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Pig is probably the second worst killer in a chase. I think she beats out hag. But even then is that reasonable? I mean the pig was going for mind games. Not even just holding w plus the survivor wasn't even milking as much time out of the first pallets as possible.
I know survivors hate facing spirit because of how devastating she is in chase. I guess my question then becomes wheres the sweet spot. Pig is obviously too weak in chase. Spirit is considered too strong.
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Tunnelling makes 4v1 turn to 3v1 pretty fast, though.
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Any power you can use to stop looping the survivors call op. I had to explain to a purple rank swf the other day why clown isnt op. And thats the trade off. If a killer is good at 1v1 but weak at 4v1 then they are TYPICALLY low tier. The killers that are decent in both survivors think are op, the truth is killers NEED both.
Freds an example, if the survivor is asleep he can stop looping pretty quick. Plus his teleport gives him map control. Hes still loopable when awake though to a crazy degree.
Spirit is similar, she can use her power to end chases or get around the map.
Wraiths new speed allows him to get that first hit quickly and have better map control.
The weak killers are typically very weak in both areas. Like pigs traps can sometimes be great in the 4v1 cause they can stall the game, sometimes they do nothing, and her 1v1 is atrocious.
Honestly imo Freddy is pretty balanced in red ranks, hes not quite strong enough to compete against REALLY good swfs. And I think more killers need ways to get around the map like he can. But hes beatable like every otger killer by simply splitting gens and dropping pallets early.
I dont think spirit is op
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Thats why its an effective strategy. But its also one of the 3 deadly sins of the survivor handbook.
If and when the gap between solos and swf is reduced, what should be done about the really good swfs. Should Freddy get buffed or is it acceptable to be doomed to be fighting a losing battle?
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If they close the gap between solo and swf then i think one thing that would help fred is having blood come out of every gen when hes teleporting. Theres an add on that does this but it locks you into teleporting to that gen. Remove the lock and make it basekit. Not sure what else you could do, if anything.
I think some of the other killers are more interesting. Like how do you buff pig to deal with a 4 man good swf? Her traps would need to be ruthless and shed need some way of countering loops, maybe she can trap pallets and vaults? Not sure.
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The problem is if you make survivors stronger in the 4v1 it won’t matter as long as the gap between solo queue and swf is not closed. Solo queue needs a totem counter to be base kit and not locked behind a perk, they need a little notification next to a players portrait to when someone is being chased, and we need kindred without the killer aura reading to be base kit that way swf and solo queue are a lot more similar. You do these things then you can also buff weak killers as well because we can then actually see where every killers power level stands.
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Make her crouch as fast as ghost face. Make her ambush dash way more threatening without addons, let her carry 8 traps and have traps arm on unhook instead of gen. That might put her in company with nurse and spirit.
I am more than fone with buffing solo to narrow the gap. But there would need to be sweeping buffs to all killers outside the top 3.
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Yeah they could buff the crap out of the dash and slow the cool down. Basically make it so ling and disgustingly fast that if you try and leave the loop she will catch up and if you dont you have to drop the pallet. Interesting
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