Don't like the Dev Update
In short
We further dispite fun in the game by making very annoying things in the game stronger.
because it's so fun getting 6 daggers from dozens the trickster just needs to spam with no serious counterplay other than W shift.
Oh but
sUrViVoR lOoK bEttEr NoW.
I think it's official that the devs supports more "w shift, split out do gens separated while everything looks good" instead of making abilities and perks interactive, fun for both sides. Making perks that are fun for both sides and not only a rancor or whatever that's just fun for one side and absolutely not interactive.
It's not about making a weak killer stronger. It's about making a annoying ability that's really not fun to go against stronger. That's the whole direction dbd goes. Instead of making Killer more mobile or faster to get around they make their abilities nearly uncounterable and/or very un fun to go against aka very oppressive as a survivor. But at least they're very slow so everything a survivor has to do is to split up and do all gens separated. That way the Killer can't pressure everyone because he's just 4.6 or even worse: 4.4.
And as a Killer that got a ability like that, like Trickster will do. It's not fun to against those teams. Teams who split up, w-shift, do gens separated. It's not fun ...
And that's the point.
So a Killer is frustrated that if survivors just play how they're supposed to do you can't do anything about that.
And on the other side, as a survivor, it's very frustrating to get downed by an ability where you can't do anything. Where you have to hope that the Killer is bad at playing it right.
And this makes it not fun, but this is the direction it takes and no one realizes that bc many players only think about their favorite role in this game and not the game as a whole.
Comments
-
Are you seriously complaining about a trickster buff?
22 -
Yes, yes they are.
2 -
Did you read anything? Rhetorical question btw.
It's not about making a weak killer stronger. It's about making a annoying ability that's really not fun to go against stronger. That's the whole direction dbd goes. Instead of making Killer more mobile or faster to get around they make their abilities nearly uncounterable and/or very un fun to go against aka very oppressive as a survivor. But at least they're very slow so everything a survivor has to do is to split up and do all gens separated. That way the Killer can't pressure everyone because he's just 4.6 or even worse: 4.4.
And as a Killer that got a ability like that, like Trickster will do. It's not fun to against those teams. Teams who split up, w-shift, do gens separated. It's not fun ...
And that's the point.
So a Killer is frustrated that if survivors just play how they're supposed to do you can't do anything about that.
And on the other side, as a survivor, it's very frustrating to get downed by an ability where you can't do anything. Where you have to hope that the Killer is bad at playing it right.
And this makes it not fun, but this is the direction it goes and no one realizes that bc many players only think about their favorite role in this game and not the game as a whole.
4 -
You guys gotta stop using "FUN" as a code word for "Easier".
You want easier games play lower ranks....
15 -
I just started less than a week ago and I already have red rank survivors with ttv in their names. The easy games lasted like... One day. Don't get me wrong, not every game is hard, but being lower ranked doesn't give me lower ranked opponents. Everyone in the lobby is lower than 12 which is where I am at. The average would probably be around 8.
1 -
Even if they fixed the game you guys will still complain....
God this community is....i have no words.
2 -
I'm super excited for a trickster buff, now im not playing him just coz I like his theme now I'm training :v
0 -
His buff won't matter considering that he still have recoil and I don't know why they thought that keeping recoil is a good idea since on console it still make it unbearable to use his ability.
and even if they removed it, the trickster design is bad when it comes to bed and his power should be rework like some killers.
1 -
It's a trickster buff, something people have been asking forever now, and you are complaining
2 -
i honestly feel the OP's point. The buffs given don't address his core issues. it just makes him stronger at short loops and so much weaker at long loops with the laceration nerf.
4 -
While this is a buff to Trickster, it doesn't address why he isn't fun to play or play against.
People may have been asking for a buff, because the trickster has super obvious problems. But in reality the Trickster's issue was the gameplay loop of the killer sucks and isn't fun and is super at odds with itself.
This may have buffed him, but it makes the problem worse. Its far more important for a killer to have a fun gameplay loop that lets you feel good about using their power than to have a strong power. Good examples of this are Trapper and Pig: Their powers are pretty weak but they have a lot of die-hard loyalists because their abilities are extremely fun and make a certain 'internal' sense mechanically and mastering these powers offers you a lot of very visible reward that lets you try to control the game even if they aren't up there with Spirit or Nurse.
What trickster really needed was to make tossing knives less of a commitment and less clunky, and for them to be a 'longer term' effect rather than a 'I am gunna down you for vaulting' effect. The first is the actually unique thing about the power (it can build up and lets you build up rewards over time without it being all or nothing if you miss) while the second just makes it a worse version of huntress. This doubled down on the 'down at vaults' effect while almost making the long term effect of being hit with a knife worse, so the killer is now even more nonsensical and not interesting, despite being stronger.
So it was a bad change. People asked for a buff, sure, and they got it, but it was a bad buff that didn't actually solve the problems people cared about. To paraphrase Mark Rosewater: People are good at spotting problems, but bad at identifying solutions (or, in my opinion, ROOT causes). Case in point: People think they don't like Trickster because he is weak (And he is) but in reality he is just... unrewarding and actively frustrating.
5 -
who needs a buff to annoying 1v1 killer? who has no map pressure? making him deathslinger 2.0 is not gonna seal the deal
2 -
And i agree to that but he didnt mentioned that, he just complained about his buff in general and then complained about DS nerf.
0 -
he's indirectly referencing this idea by stating they are making an annoying ability stronger and uncounterable other than holding W. He's angry at the buffs because it just makes trickster even more oppressive, he might not of said the specific situation that makes him oppressive but thats part of what he's referring to.
0 -
Leaving him as is won't help either, think of this similarly to legion
1 -
And so, in standard dbd forum fashion, paragraphs of text explaining how trickster suffered from lacking map pressure and losing gens easily, and making him more annoying in a 1v1 won't solve that issue but only make it more unfun to verse and force survivors to rush gens more, those comments get 1-2 upvotes and a "######### YoU cOmPlAiNiNg AbOuT a BuFf" comment getting instantly upvoted to +10 lmao.
1 -
Pray tell, how would you fix a ranged Killer who can guarantee to down you if he can zone you enough?
It's the same thing with Deathslinger, Huntress, even ######### Demo.
If they can get you into a situation where they are guaranteed to hit you, they will hit you. DBD is about managing your resources as a Survivor, that includes hook states. Killers like Deathslinger and Trickster have basically zero map pressure. Their entire power is reliant on them getting downs quickly.
Yes, it can sometimes feel demoralizing and powerless. But that's just how it is when you play Survivor, especially in Solo Queue. You just have to hope your teammates aren't stupid enough to hide and not do gens while you go for a chase with the Killer.
It's obvious they aren't going to change the Trickster's design. So the only way to actually make him viable is to make him more oppressive midchase.
And I for one, am okay with that. I wouldn't mind seeing him do ricochets as a basekit power too since I would love to see him actually get some more usage out of his knives around tall walls.
1 -
Thats the fault of BHVR's matchmaking system, and the ability to be a red rank and SWF with a bunch of rank 20s.
1 -
Hes 110 and his laceration meter makes his perk ass. This isnt going to help him
0 -
Firstly, I want to note that I am saying 'Trickster is frustrating and unfun' from a KILLER perspective. The power is anemic and unrewarding and has so many built in downsides it legitimately feels bad to use.
As to how to fix them: I would take the focus off downing and ending the chase, and more into a threat of sorts. He should be able to do it, but it should more be a long term threat than a short term one that has delay that forces survivors to change their behavior.
For example: Remove ammo from the power, instead make it a cooldown and when he triggers the cooldown he fires off a few knives in a row. If every single one hits, sure he gets an injure state, essentially making his 'base power' his ultimate. Otherwise they just... stay in the target, and they need to pseudo-mend to remove them. If you get filled with knives, its an INSTANT down though, and not just an injure.
That already changes the dynamic a LOT and makes it so trickster is forcing you to spend time removing knives instead of repairing, but he isn't going in with the prime goal of downing you at the same loop. Getting knives on a survivor has value outside of getting the injure or down because it becomes delay, especially if removing each knife takes time. He is playing a longer game and each individual knife hit matters (So the fact its a rapid fire power has value still) while rewarding every knife hit you land (to reward mastery). And it rewards counterplay too, the trickster can't shut down loops utterly by existing because he can't just spam the power anymore.
The reason 'my only pressure is down threat' works for Huntress and Deathslinger is because their effects are 'instant.' You aren't just threatening a long range down, its single decision points that take off the health state. Trickster needs to move away from being a Huntress clone, because otherwise he is always going to be worse because demanding track aim from projectiles is always going to be harder and longer than just landing the hatchet. Its ok for killers to be similar if the way they do things is different and interesting that leads to different upsides and downsides, but Trickster doesn't really have upsides vs Huntress besides rewarding extremely bad play in a way that won't satisfy anyone. Functionally landing 4 knives on someone vaulting is WORSE than landing one hatchet doing so.
Is this a good change? I dunno, probably has more downsides than upsides. But its way better than the hot mess of "I am Huntress but worse and less fun and rewarding and it feels more BS for all involved, even the survivors" that Trickster is now. Almost nothing about his current design is redeeming.
There is an interesting concept stuck in there, but this instence on decay and it being a 'short term' power when its just objectively worse than other 'burst lethality' powers by a significant degree without any upsides or interesting effects to make it fun for the killer (ex: Plague, who gets to be 115 movespeed, gets detection off their 'spam' power, gets the ability to make it a lethal 'burst' power, and which comes with delay to offset all the downsides compared to Huntress and Slinger) is really holding Trickster back, and honestly I don't think he will be fun for the killer ever unless it gets oppressively good, it becomes a 'side gig' and he is made 115 movespeed, or decay stops existing and it starts to operate more like Plague where the laceration meter does more than merely threaten an injure state and is something that comes with side benefits.
1
