Do people even pretend swf is balanced?

powerbats said:

@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else. 

@Rebel_Raven said:
Yeah, more than a few do, and they insist you vs them anyhow. 
Or they know they're imbalanced an insist you vs them anyhow.
How dare we dodge, eh?
How dare we complain about them?

Survivors just want to have fun. At the killers expense. 

Yes because everytime that Ruin totem is destroyed it's a sWF squad doing it, I mean it's not like experienced solo players don't know how to do that.

It's also not as if experienced solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves or do unhooks by themselves and rush to heal the person since 2 healing is better than 1 in case killer comes back.

Yes play the blame game since that works so well, it's not like most lobbies don't contain a duo at least 64.1% of the time or anything like that. I mean logic and common sense would say that after it being a core function of the game for over 2 years you'd stop complaining about it and adapt.

The old dodge excuse, oh it looks like swf so let me dodge, r solo's join at once still looks like swf so gotta dodge.

I don't like their outfits, dodge, they brought 1 flashlight dodge, they have 2 medkits dodge, check their profile and find out they're experienced dodge. It's all under the banner of it's swf so I can safely dodge I mean lobby shop for easier matches.

For the record I've never dodged a single match except for when someone has 700+ ping since that's not fair to the other 3 survivors in the match. I've taken on all matches otherwise and faced some really good swf groups even the dreaded swat teams.

Yet I've never once come onto the forums and complained about them, I didn't say I wanted easier matches, I didn't ask for a lobby dodging option. I chose to play the game because those were the lobbies that were given to me.

Some of the games i got destroyed while others i did the destroying, but the one thing all those matches had in common was that I learned how to play better. When I make mistakes I learn from them and improve which makes me a better player when I'm versing solo.

I'd love for them to make a solo only system but then if you choose solo lobbies option YOU'RE LOCKED INTO IT FOREVER. So if you want those easier matches then you get stuck in that queue and if your lobby times suck oh well, you got what you asked for.

Since if they're going to waste time and resources into something like that it makes no sense for them to simply let you dodge what you asked for.

@Rebel_Raven said:

I didn't blame anyone for anything. I simply answered the question in the title.

There are people that believe SWF is balanced and insist you battle them.

At the very least there are people that know full well SWF is harder and still insist you vs them as if they were balanced.

It's not that you blamed anyone for anything it's how you answered the question in the tile, hence my response.

Yes, but there's also those who don't and for some that do they point out as i did some of the excuses used as well as the results of versing them. .

That last part turns around and helps solve some of the complaints about other things killer preferential players have. Since if you can learn how easy it is to generally counter swf and use their strengths against them you'll favor them more.

@KingB said:
@powerbats I don't want easy games. I want winnable games. I don't recall saying that solo survivors can't, can you quote me?

 I also don't recall saying solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves. Do you have a quote from me saying otherwise? If so I apologize and retract my earlier statement. 

What am I blaming? The objective time imbalance? Go ahead, enlighten me. How can I adapt? What can I do to play more optimally? Give me some suggestions I'm all ears. Also it's not like depip squad depipped over 90% of killers or anything like that without perks (IIRC, don't remember exact percentage). 

Ok? I dodge some lobbies. Sue me. I play the game to have fun occasionally just as I try hard occasionally. For the record, I never dodge because of items. FD exists for a reason. 

Awesome, I'm sure those survivors returned the favor of you not dodging by playing non-toxic. I've faced good survivors as well. I genuinely enjoy getting 360'd because it does take skill (not sarcasm) I enjoy facing someone who can use dead hard effectively. I enjoy so many things about this game. But I also don't enjoy some things. 

I try to as well. I've come a long way since my first game as killer. I keep getting consistently better, and with this I also understand some mechanics are unfair. I'm going to voice my opinion, I want civil constructive debate. If I get proven wrong I'll rethink my stance(s) and either change my mind or come up with better arguments. 

Everyone is gonna play solo, 99% of the killers will mark that option in a heartbeat. The game would die because swf would never find lobbies. 

I don't want swf removed, I want the game balanced around them so each side can have fun. 

I don't believe i said you specifically want easy games but killers that post on here about dodging anything they even suspect is swf or as all the examples I gave do. Now if we're to be completely technical about it you wanting to dodge SWF is all about wanting easier games.

You can also win games against any swf group, to say those aren't winnable is a fallacy and defeatist from the start. That's like a general in war being outnumbered and saying eh can't win despite knowing how the enemy fights which is an advantage.

No, that's a general statement because your statement was a blanket one which meant that solo's couldn't do the same thing. So no apology is necessary for that, it's just how it comes across when looked at objectively.

You're blaming a 2 man, 3 man or 4 man swf for your issues despite all the evidence that a killer can overcome those differences.I've usually got 1 person wounded and either downed or hooked before a gen pops. It's extremely rare for me to have 3 gens pop like that let alone 2.

I've never used Ruin except for when trying to do the Hag's adepts, in fact Ruin is a really bad crutch worse than DS because you depend on it. When it drops either early or 5 minutes into the game your whole world goes up in flames metaphorically speaking. It's almost as if when you lose that totem you forget how to play and act like you've already lost the match.

If you can't learn to pressure gens better, patrol better, know where people are most likely to be, what are the safe routes and unsafe routes and pallet/vault locations.Then nothing I say can help you since you're stuck in your ways.

If a gen is on the outermost edge of the map and you've got 4 close together than leave that one alone, it doesn't matter that there's 2 or more people on it. I've seen killers get attached to 1 gen for whatever reason or because a hex totem is there. They'll camp that and never let anyone near that are meanwhile everything else gets powered.

Do you patrol properly, what routes do you use to get to where you want to go, what's the most optimal route, if a gen pops where are they most likely to go etc.

As for the depip squad experiment just stop, that's not a valid experiment and it most definitely doesn't validate your argument at all. Because 4 pro tier players destroying a random killer including baby killers doing dailies isn't valid.

That'd be as valid as me getting together 3 others each with over 1k hours and playing rank 20's and destroying them repeatedly. You'd say that's not valid the same as when people that're high ranked play low ranked.

So you admit to dodging lobbies but then turn around and say FD exists for a reason, what you want is fun by your definition. You lobby shop for easier matches because you want to have fun. But those lobbies you dodged do you know for a fact those were swf or did you just dodge them because you didn't like the characters/outfits/loadouts?

Most groups don't know you didn't dodge them because they were or weren't swf groups, they just know you didn't dodge them for your own selfish reasons. I also have gotten more toxicity from solo lobby survivors than I have swf groups who're on average more friendly.

But then I don't camp, i don't hardcore tunnel, I don't ever say ggez or anything like that, if someone crashes during loading screen or right at start I tend to go easy. When I 4k I generally get a gg because the match was fun for both sides.

I understand that and over time it'll improve but by not taking the challenge of swf you'll miss out on so much that when you face a solo lobby of really good people you'll get wrecked. I've been in so many so q lobbies at rank 1 where all 4 people joined separately sometimes even minutes apart.

The killer gets their clocked cleaned because everyone is super focused and knows what they're doing then post game comes up and complains about 4 man swf. They then say they should've dodged like they always do despite everyone loading up separately.

Yes everyone is going to voice their opinion but it's been 2+ years, the devs have emphatically stated they're not doing anything like this and for many of the reason I've listed. What they have said is they want to buff solo q up to the level of SWF information wise then buff killers to face that level. That benefits everyone not just the vocal minority that wants the dodge option since then it's easier to balance.

No, 99% of killers won't go for that option since there's not 99% of the killers that're that foolish since they know the numbers don't work. In fact it's you killer that wouldn't have lobbies because the playerbase of solo players isn't that big to support you.

If you want to have 2-6 hour lobbies then go ahead and be my guest, but you're stuck there forever and can't queue up for swf lobbies. It's the old adage be careful what you wish for since there's a finite number of solo players.

See my comment above about the buffing solo up.

@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else. 

I feel like a good counter to dealing with SFW, if you don't honestly want to deal with it, is to have a preference system. Much like some games allow you to choose what game mode you'd like to play, or what maps while queuing, DBD could integrate something along those lines. That way, you can choose to participate as killer in SWF lobbies.

@mcNuggets said:

You really need to play a lil bit rank 1 with a mediocre killer and come back and tell us your opinion again.

If you're referring to me I played Spirit at rank 1 and i've seen countless skilled Bubba's, Doctors, Freddy's, Trappers, Hags, etc. Basically all of the supposed unviable killers that seem to do just fine in the hands of people that know what they're doing.

Are some of the killers underpowered compared to others yes, but it's amazing that they can still 4k and stomp competent SWF teams because they know how to play them,.

@mcNuggets said:

Not every SWF is skilled tho.
A reallly skilled SWF will beat any killer (besides) nurse without any counter play.

Yet people manage to beat those teams with killers besides those 2.

Games of the length of 4 minutes with insta heal and decisive strike + communication are not winnable without a nurse.

Ok here goes the new timer excuse so to speak before it was games were under 3 minutes and you put in an artificial timer to bolster your argument. Throw out the fake determined timer nonsense along with the predetermined loadouts.

I've destroyed 4 insta heals/DS/DH/SC/AD SWF teams before because I didn't play how they wanted me too. I played according to how I wanted to and and took advantage of their teamwork and assumptions on how I'd play.

Oh sure i've gotten my butt kicked as well by those teams but those were more foten me playing poorly and not taking advantage of their mistakes.
>

Survivors HAVE to mess up in the first place in order for a killer to get a down.

Yes and no since you as a killer can force mistakes and not depend on them doing something stupid. If you're constantly being reactionary waiting for them to screw up you're gong to lose every time.

Otherwise they can loop you for atleast 3-4 minutes if they use all the pallets + windows effectively and guess how long gens take?

If they're looping you for that long you deserve to lose plain and simple.

There are games where however you good you play you only get 0-1 kills out of it and in the end chat get flamed and insulted.

There's games where you 4k and get flamed and insulted and there's games where you have scores all over the place and get a gg.

Of course, the main problem isn't SWF, but gen rushing and the capability of survivors finishing rounds, within 3-4 minutes, if skilled enough. (with the usage of overpowered perks)

Oh good grief just stop already, as I said earlier the 3 minute excuse got overused so now it's the 4 minute excuse. If you're losing games in under 4 minutes so often it's not SWF that's the problem it's you.

Marth88 already made 2 "experiments" where it shows how unbalanced playing killer really is, the devs just answered with "We never said it's balanced".

Yes 4 pro caliber players I.E. the top 0.1% of the player base went up against random killers including ones doing dailies on killers they don't know how to play. Yeah that's a legitimate experiment alright and given all the talk about how rank in meaningless since it's super easy to rank up.

If you really wanted that to be considered valid where's the controls, where's the stuff to keep out confirmation bias, Why not choose 4 random players with around 500 hours each or so which would probably be the average player base.

Then put those 4 together and have them do that experiment, the results would be vastly different but much more realistic. They'd also be much more representative of the overall player base..

I don't know how people even imply the game is balanced.

Most of us acknowledge that the game needs more balancing but we don't use all the excuses in the book and blame swf for everything. I think that if a solo lobby was created and you lot were all stuck there forever without ever being able to leave.

That nothing at all would change you'd just come up with some new excuse or complaint or you'd simply blame swf sneaking into your solo lobbies.