Do people even pretend swf is balanced?
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Yeah, more than a few do, and they insist you vs them anyhow.
Or they know they're imbalanced an insist you vs them anyhow.
How dare we dodge, eh?
How dare we complain about them?
Survivors just want to have fun. At the killers expense.9 -
@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else.@Rebel_Raven said:
Yeah, more than a few do, and they insist you vs them anyhow.
Or they know they're imbalanced an insist you vs them anyhow.
How dare we dodge, eh?
How dare we complain about them?Survivors just want to have fun. At the killers expense.
Yes because everytime that Ruin totem is destroyed it's a sWF squad doing it, I mean it's not like experienced solo players don't know how to do that.
It's also not as if experienced solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves or do unhooks by themselves and rush to heal the person since 2 healing is better than 1 in case killer comes back.
Yes play the blame game since that works so well, it's not like most lobbies don't contain a duo at least 64.1% of the time or anything like that. I mean logic and common sense would say that after it being a core function of the game for over 2 years you'd stop complaining about it and adapt.
The old dodge excuse, oh it looks like swf so let me dodge, r solo's join at once still looks like swf so gotta dodge.
I don't like their outfits, dodge, they brought 1 flashlight dodge, they have 2 medkits dodge, check their profile and find out they're experienced dodge. It's all under the banner of it's swf so I can safely dodge I mean lobby shop for easier matches.
For the record I've never dodged a single match except for when someone has 700+ ping since that's not fair to the other 3 survivors in the match. I've taken on all matches otherwise and faced some really good swf groups even the dreaded swat teams.
Yet I've never once come onto the forums and complained about them, I didn't say I wanted easier matches, I didn't ask for a lobby dodging option. I chose to play the game because those were the lobbies that were given to me.
Some of the games i got destroyed while others i did the destroying, but the one thing all those matches had in common was that I learned how to play better. When I make mistakes I learn from them and improve which makes me a better player when I'm versing solo.
I'd love for them to make a solo only system but then if you choose solo lobbies option YOU'RE LOCKED INTO IT FOREVER. So if you want those easier matches then you get stuck in that queue and if your lobby times suck oh well, you got what you asked for.
Since if they're going to waste time and resources into something like that it makes no sense for them to simply let you dodge what you asked for.
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I didn't blame anyone for anything. I simply answered the question in the title.powerbats said:@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else.@Rebel_Raven said:
Yeah, more than a few do, and they insist you vs them anyhow.
Or they know they're imbalanced an insist you vs them anyhow.
How dare we dodge, eh?
How dare we complain about them?Survivors just want to have fun. At the killers expense.
Yes because everytime that Ruin totem is destroyed it's a sWF squad doing it, I mean it's not like experienced solo players don't know how to do that.
It's also not as if experienced solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves or do unhooks by themselves and rush to heal the person since 2 healing is better than 1 in case killer comes back.
Yes play the blame game since that works so well, it's not like most lobbies don't contain a duo at least 64.1% of the time or anything like that. I mean logic and common sense would say that after it being a core function of the game for over 2 years you'd stop complaining about it and adapt.
The old dodge excuse, oh it looks like swf so let me dodge, r solo's join at once still looks like swf so gotta dodge.
I don't like their outfits, dodge, they brought 1 flashlight dodge, they have 2 medkits dodge, check their profile and find out they're experienced dodge. It's all under the banner of it's swf so I can safely dodge I mean lobby shop for easier matches.
For the record I've never dodged a single match except for when someone has 700+ ping since that's not fair to the other 3 survivors in the match. I've taken on all matches otherwise and faced some really good swf groups even the dreaded swat teams.
Yet I've never once come onto the forums and complained about them, I didn't say I wanted easier matches, I didn't ask for a lobby dodging option. I chose to play the game because those were the lobbies that were given to me.
Some of the games i got destroyed while others i did the destroying, but the one thing all those matches had in common was that I learned how to play better. When I make mistakes I learn from them and improve which makes me a better player when I'm versing solo.
I'd love for them to make a solo only system but then if you choose solo lobbies option YOU'RE LOCKED INTO IT FOREVER. So if you want those easier matches then you get stuck in that queue and if your lobby times suck oh well, you got what you asked for.
Since if they're going to waste time and resources into something like that it makes no sense for them to simply let you dodge what you asked for.
There are people that believe SWF is balanced and insist you battle them.
At the very least there are people that know full well SWF is harder and still insist you vs them as if they were balanced.
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@powerbats I don't want easy games. I want winnable games. I don't recall saying that solo survivors can't, can you quote me?
I also don't recall saying solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves. Do you have a quote from me saying otherwise? If so I apologize and retract my earlier statement.
What am I blaming? The objective time imbalance? Go ahead, enlighten me. How can I adapt? What can I do to play more optimally? Give me some suggestions I'm all ears. Also it's not like depip squad depipped over 90% of killers or anything like that without perks (IIRC, don't remember exact percentage).
Ok? I dodge some lobbies. Sue me. I play the game to have fun occasionally just as I try hard occasionally. For the record, I never dodge because of items. FD exists for a reason.
Awesome, I'm sure those survivors returned the favor of you not dodging by playing non-toxic. I've faced good survivors as well. I genuinely enjoy getting 360'd because it does take skill (not sarcasm) I enjoy facing someone who can use dead hard effectively. I enjoy so many things about this game. But I also don't enjoy some things.
I try to as well. I've come a long way since my first game as killer. I keep getting consistently better, and with this I also understand some mechanics are unfair. I'm going to voice my opinion, I want civil constructive debate. If I get proven wrong I'll rethink my stance(s) and either change my mind or come up with better arguments.
Everyone is gonna play solo, 99% of the killers will mark that option in a heartbeat. The game would die because swf would never find lobbies.
I don't want swf removed, I want the game balanced around them so each side can have fun.3 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
I didn't blame anyone for anything. I simply answered the question in the title.
There are people that believe SWF is balanced and insist you battle them.
At the very least there are people that know full well SWF is harder and still insist you vs them as if they were balanced.
It's not that you blamed anyone for anything it's how you answered the question in the tile, hence my response.
Yes, but there's also those who don't and for some that do they point out as i did some of the excuses used as well as the results of versing them. .
That last part turns around and helps solve some of the complaints about other things killer preferential players have. Since if you can learn how easy it is to generally counter swf and use their strengths against them you'll favor them more.
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powerbats said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
I didn't blame anyone for anything. I simply answered the question in the title.
There are people that believe SWF is balanced and insist you battle them.
At the very least there are people that know full well SWF is harder and still insist you vs them as if they were balanced.
It's not that you blamed anyone for anything it's how you answered the question in the tile, hence my response.
Yes, but there's also those who don't and for some that do they point out as i did some of the excuses used as well as the results of versing them. .
That last part turns around and helps solve some of the complaints about other things killer preferential players have. Since if you can learn how easy it is to generally counter swf and use their strengths against them you'll favor them more.
We point it out for lots of reasons.
Me? I want a sporting chance. A fair shake.
And I would like to think we both know SWF is not keen to offer that. They already use means beyond the game to get an advantage for the most part.
I mean what fun is it to SWF without talking to each other?
Already that gives them access to a half dozen free perks. Doesn't mean they abuse it and get sweaty, but I doubt they will avoid the power if things get tough.
And, basically the harder they make the game for me, the easier it gets for them. It's not even remotely fair. I'm not getting a sporting chance.
Gunna be honest, you saying you never dodge does nothing for me. I don't believe you're lying, though.
You have a better arsenal, and more time invested than I do. I dare say you're better than I am.
You played in different eras of the game, no doubt. Heck, for all I know you played before SWF was even introduced and gained a lot of power then.
It's easier for you to just fight am swf, and you have more time to train to do it.
I have time to play, not time to practice in a best case scenario.
Your normal experiences are not mine.
It's not easy. We both know SWF is stronger than the average team.
You know everyone would dodge SWFs if they could. That they're a greater challenge.
And you keep saying it's easy, but you never really go into making it easier to fight swfs. Yeah, you give tips in other threads, but it's no good for the people who haven't read those and are just reading this.
Saying it is one thing. Having us believe it? Something else entirely. Especially after being burned by numerous SWFs.
Then there's tactics you don't really touch like 3 gens popping in a chase, then 2 more across the map, or some such.0 -
@KingB said:
@powerbats I don't want easy games. I want winnable games. I don't recall saying that solo survivors can't, can you quote me?I also don't recall saying solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves. Do you have a quote from me saying otherwise? If so I apologize and retract my earlier statement.
What am I blaming? The objective time imbalance? Go ahead, enlighten me. How can I adapt? What can I do to play more optimally? Give me some suggestions I'm all ears. Also it's not like depip squad depipped over 90% of killers or anything like that without perks (IIRC, don't remember exact percentage).
Ok? I dodge some lobbies. Sue me. I play the game to have fun occasionally just as I try hard occasionally. For the record, I never dodge because of items. FD exists for a reason.
Awesome, I'm sure those survivors returned the favor of you not dodging by playing non-toxic. I've faced good survivors as well. I genuinely enjoy getting 360'd because it does take skill (not sarcasm) I enjoy facing someone who can use dead hard effectively. I enjoy so many things about this game. But I also don't enjoy some things.
I try to as well. I've come a long way since my first game as killer. I keep getting consistently better, and with this I also understand some mechanics are unfair. I'm going to voice my opinion, I want civil constructive debate. If I get proven wrong I'll rethink my stance(s) and either change my mind or come up with better arguments.
Everyone is gonna play solo, 99% of the killers will mark that option in a heartbeat. The game would die because swf would never find lobbies.
I don't want swf removed, I want the game balanced around them so each side can have fun.
I don't believe i said you specifically want easy games but killers that post on here about dodging anything they even suspect is swf or as all the examples I gave do. Now if we're to be completely technical about it you wanting to dodge SWF is all about wanting easier games.
You can also win games against any swf group, to say those aren't winnable is a fallacy and defeatist from the start. That's like a general in war being outnumbered and saying eh can't win despite knowing how the enemy fights which is an advantage.
No, that's a general statement because your statement was a blanket one which meant that solo's couldn't do the same thing. So no apology is necessary for that, it's just how it comes across when looked at objectively.
You're blaming a 2 man, 3 man or 4 man swf for your issues despite all the evidence that a killer can overcome those differences.I've usually got 1 person wounded and either downed or hooked before a gen pops. It's extremely rare for me to have 3 gens pop like that let alone 2.
I've never used Ruin except for when trying to do the Hag's adepts, in fact Ruin is a really bad crutch worse than DS because you depend on it. When it drops either early or 5 minutes into the game your whole world goes up in flames metaphorically speaking. It's almost as if when you lose that totem you forget how to play and act like you've already lost the match.
If you can't learn to pressure gens better, patrol better, know where people are most likely to be, what are the safe routes and unsafe routes and pallet/vault locations.Then nothing I say can help you since you're stuck in your ways.
If a gen is on the outermost edge of the map and you've got 4 close together than leave that one alone, it doesn't matter that there's 2 or more people on it. I've seen killers get attached to 1 gen for whatever reason or because a hex totem is there. They'll camp that and never let anyone near that are meanwhile everything else gets powered.
Do you patrol properly, what routes do you use to get to where you want to go, what's the most optimal route, if a gen pops where are they most likely to go etc.
As for the depip squad experiment just stop, that's not a valid experiment and it most definitely doesn't validate your argument at all. Because 4 pro tier players destroying a random killer including baby killers doing dailies isn't valid.
That'd be as valid as me getting together 3 others each with over 1k hours and playing rank 20's and destroying them repeatedly. You'd say that's not valid the same as when people that're high ranked play low ranked.
So you admit to dodging lobbies but then turn around and say FD exists for a reason, what you want is fun by your definition. You lobby shop for easier matches because you want to have fun. But those lobbies you dodged do you know for a fact those were swf or did you just dodge them because you didn't like the characters/outfits/loadouts?
Most groups don't know you didn't dodge them because they were or weren't swf groups, they just know you didn't dodge them for your own selfish reasons. I also have gotten more toxicity from solo lobby survivors than I have swf groups who're on average more friendly.
But then I don't camp, i don't hardcore tunnel, I don't ever say ggez or anything like that, if someone crashes during loading screen or right at start I tend to go easy. When I 4k I generally get a gg because the match was fun for both sides.
I understand that and over time it'll improve but by not taking the challenge of swf you'll miss out on so much that when you face a solo lobby of really good people you'll get wrecked. I've been in so many so q lobbies at rank 1 where all 4 people joined separately sometimes even minutes apart.
The killer gets their clocked cleaned because everyone is super focused and knows what they're doing then post game comes up and complains about 4 man swf. They then say they should've dodged like they always do despite everyone loading up separately.
Yes everyone is going to voice their opinion but it's been 2+ years, the devs have emphatically stated they're not doing anything like this and for many of the reason I've listed. What they have said is they want to buff solo q up to the level of SWF information wise then buff killers to face that level. That benefits everyone not just the vocal minority that wants the dodge option since then it's easier to balance.
No, 99% of killers won't go for that option since there's not 99% of the killers that're that foolish since they know the numbers don't work. In fact it's you killer that wouldn't have lobbies because the playerbase of solo players isn't that big to support you.
If you want to have 2-6 hour lobbies then go ahead and be my guest, but you're stuck there forever and can't queue up for swf lobbies. It's the old adage be careful what you wish for since there's a finite number of solo players.
See my comment above about the buffing solo up.
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the game is balanced either around solos or around swf with communication, choose one. Id pick the 1st choice and anyone saying that playing against solos or swf is the same is just lying0
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@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else.Yes most people claim it.
However it can happen that a group of solo survivor spawns on your hex totem too, thats a problem of the whole hex mechanic and the devs show no intention to fix that. They generated another perk "haunted ground" and that seems to be the "fix" they promised0 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
Survivors just want to have fun. At the killers expense.Dude. This is like the very definition of the game. Survivors want fun at killers expense and killer wants fun at survivors expense. Welcome to Dead By Daylight!
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@cetruzzo said:
the game is balanced either around solos or around swf with communication, choose one. Id pick the 1st choice and anyone saying that playing against solos or swf is the same is just lyingAnd if it is the latter.. the developers need to step up their killer buffing game.
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You can also win games against any swf group, to say those aren't winnable is a fallacy and defeatist from the start. That's like a general in war being outnumbered and saying eh can't win despite knowing how the enemy fights which is an advantage.
Whether they can theoretically be overcome is a different question than whether they are likely to. The person you quoted worded things in terms of "being a fair shake" not SWF matches being "unwinnable"
Further, the depip squad was able to take out killers of equal skill consistently. You are skirting around admitting that SWF holds a proven and distinct advantage over the killer.
Claiming that SWF is manageable because you "know how they fight" is misleading. Yes, SWF's tend to me more altruistic, but smart SWF aren't going to blindly hook swarm. Intelligent SWF have the power to completely shift and adapt their team's strategy based on how they observe the killer playing, but the killer lacks that ability by comparison, he/she can only make an educated guess on what the opposing teams strategy has become.
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@KingB no it's not "balanced", whatever "balanced" means. Soloes have it rough, SWF have it easier. Yes, secondary objectives would be welcome. Yes, the game should somehow try to close the gap between solo and SWF.
But. None of this changes the fact that lobbydodging or DC-ing when facing SWF is a chickenshit thing to do.
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I sympathize with lobby dodgers. I don't anymore since I choose to play against them to get better, but at the same time, people want to have good games. Killers lobby dodge not because they want easy games, but because they want good one's. Good games are close. Good games are toss ups, they're exciting, and both parties make awesome plays and the tiniest of factors changes the course of the whole match. Getting bullied isn't a good game. Having all four people tea bag you at the exit gates isn't a good game. I don't blame killers for trying to avoid that.
My SWF team just today 4 manned a rank one leatherface who didn't even get to put anyone on a hook. He did everything he was supposed to. He didn't spend too long on chases. He pressured the map, he patrolled generators effectively, but he was out gamed simply because one of us would hide up on a high platform, like a house or hill (It was autohaven wreckers) and we could call out exactly where he was going at all times. Three gens were done before he even FOUND anyone.
This "PrESUre THe mAP" bullshit is getting old. Yes, obviously, pressuring the map is good advice! Yes, Jesus, pressure the god damned map. Don't over focus on just one chase. Don't mindlessly tunnel. Don't over camp a generator that's almost done. Etc. It's all such basic #########, what survivors don't acknowledge is that "pressure the map" is not a blanket ######### erasure of their advantages. A killer's ability to pressure the map is severely hindered by your ability to know his whereabouts.
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One last comment before I dip, but I'll illustrate SWF's ability to adapt better in comparison to the killer with an example. A perfect illustration is the generator that's almost complete. This is beyond a tricky situation for the killer but it's perfect for an SWF group. From the killer's perspective, he can only make an educated guess on whether to stay and keep smacking people of the gen, or leave in fear that one or two people are baiting him to camp it while the other two go and complete the rest. If he/she chooses to stick around and swat you away, the risk of other generators being completed rises.
If they leave, there's no choice but to sacrifice the generator because there's at least one person sticking around waiting to finish it. The killer can only coin toss. This situation plays right into SWF hands because they don't have to do guess work. They don't have to give up anything or take a risk, they know exactly when to return and when not to, whereas a random group may fall victim to immersion and be too afraid to touch the generator if the killer kept returning to check on it.
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Tbh, I'd prefer play against SWF than wait a 2 hours in lobby to play a match
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Most people that think SWF is balanced, think this because they wont survive otherwise.
Instead of getting better, they get together.
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@Wahara said:
Further, the depip squad was able to take out killers of equal skill consistently. You are skirting around admitting that SWF holds a proven and distinct advantage over the killer.
1.This has already been debunked since 1 When a baby killer is doing a daily ona kille they don't know how to play it isn't comparable skill.
What are you smoking and where can I get some because if you think that 4 pro caliber players each with several k hours of playing. Because how non pro caliber players of most definitely non equal skill are definitely not comparable skill.
See the 2 above which by using sucha flawed metric of course SFW has a proven advantage over killers. But for the most part yes swf has advantages but most swf are overly altruistic as well. The super smart swat teams are a rarity and can still be beaten by smart killers.
Do you get your but kicked by swf yes, but on average you'll win more than you lose if you play properly and learn from your mistakes. If the latest dev stats are correct survival rate is below 50% which includes swf so that means some killers are playing right.
As far as coin tosses go well gee that happens on the survivor side as well even with communication is it a really good player that's going to outsmart us. Is it a dumb killer that we can outsmart, do they have NOED, do they have Insidious and are going to simply camp 1 exit gate?
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No, I'm sorry. Professional killers like Blinky and Kingdime who are considered the best nurse and billy respectively were equally destroyed. They also consistently win nearly every tournament.
Whether or not well coordinated, smart SWF is "common" or not is irrelevant to the question of whether that presents a problem in terms of balancing at high rank play. Frequency and the "possibility" of beating them are basically derailments.
The fact remains: Skilled survivors in an SWF group who focus on the objective and don't ######### around will punk any killer of equal skill 8/10. Yes, I'm aware of the survival rate statistic but that's A) coming out of the hallowed blight event and
Random groups are included in that statistic.2 -
@Rebel_Raven said:
powerbats said:@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else.
@Rebel_Raven said:
Yeah, more than a few do, and they insist you vs them anyhow.
Or they know they're imbalanced an insist you vs them anyhow.
How dare we dodge, eh?
How dare we complain about them?
Survivors just want to have fun. At the killers expense.
Yes because everytime that Ruin totem is destroyed it's a sWF squad doing it, I mean it's not like experienced solo players don't know how to do that.
It's also not as if experienced solo survivors don't know how to work on gens by themselves or do unhooks by themselves and rush to heal the person since 2 healing is better than 1 in case killer comes back.
Yes play the blame game since that works so well, it's not like most lobbies don't contain a duo at least 64.1% of the time or anything like that. I mean logic and common sense would say that after it being a core function of the game for over 2 years you'd stop complaining about it and adapt.
The old dodge excuse, oh it looks like swf so let me dodge, r solo's join at once still looks like swf so gotta dodge.
I don't like their outfits, dodge, they brought 1 flashlight dodge, they have 2 medkits dodge, check their profile and find out they're experienced dodge. It's all under the banner of it's swf so I can safely dodge I mean lobby shop for easier matches.
For the record I've never dodged a single match except for when someone has 700+ ping since that's not fair to the other 3 survivors in the match. I've taken on all matches otherwise and faced some really good swf groups even the dreaded swat teams.
Yet I've never once come onto the forums and complained about them, I didn't say I wanted easier matches, I didn't ask for a lobby dodging option. I chose to play the game because those were the lobbies that were given to me.
Some of the games i got destroyed while others i did the destroying, but the one thing all those matches had in common was that I learned how to play better. When I make mistakes I learn from them and improve which makes me a better player when I'm versing solo.
I'd love for them to make a solo only system but then if you choose solo lobbies option YOU'RE LOCKED INTO IT FOREVER. So if you want those easier matches then you get stuck in that queue and if your lobby times suck oh well, you got what you asked for.
Since if they're going to waste time and resources into something like that it makes no sense for them to simply let you dodge what you asked for.
I didn't blame anyone for anything. I simply answered the question in the title.
There are people that believe SWF is balanced and insist you battle them.
At the very least there are people that know full well SWF is harder and still insist you vs them as if they were balanced.
You really need to play a lil bit rank 1 with a mediocre killer and come back and tell us your opinion again.
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@KingB said:
God this is ridiculous. Spawn in, ruin gone in 30 seconds. Find survivor, by the time he's down 3 gens pop. Hook him don't even have time to get across the map before the other 2 pop. It's insane. Secondary objectives would be amazing. The objective time imbalance is so hard to overcome and survivors need something else.I feel like a good counter to dealing with SFW, if you don't honestly want to deal with it, is to have a preference system. Much like some games allow you to choose what game mode you'd like to play, or what maps while queuing, DBD could integrate something along those lines. That way, you can choose to participate as killer in SWF lobbies.
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In my opinion, when I play in a lobby as killer, and I see it's SWF, I immediately chalk it up as a three man kill at the very least because, where there is a group, there's communication. So, say I down and hook one, I can almost guarantee someone's going to come unhook them.
If they move and migrate as a group, which they might do, I get one hit off on a healthy target, and get to re-down, and hook the person they just got off. I actually have more issues playing killer in an all solo-surv lobby, than I do a SWF lobby.
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@mcNuggets said:
You really need to play a lil bit rank 1 with a mediocre killer and come back and tell us your opinion again.
If you're referring to me I played Spirit at rank 1 and i've seen countless skilled Bubba's, Doctors, Freddy's, Trappers, Hags, etc. Basically all of the supposed unviable killers that seem to do just fine in the hands of people that know what they're doing.
Are some of the killers underpowered compared to others yes, but it's amazing that they can still 4k and stomp competent SWF teams because they know how to play them,.
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@Wahara said:
No, I'm sorry. Professional killers like Blinky and Kingdime who are considered the best nurse and billy respectively were equally destroyed. They also consistently win nearly every tournament.Whether or not well coordinated, smart SWF is "common" or not is irrelevant to the question of whether that presents a problem in terms of balancing at high rank play. Frequency and the "possibility" of beating them are basically derailments.
The fact remains: Skilled survivors in an SWF group who focus on the objective and don't [BAD WORD] around will punk any killer of equal skill 8/10. Yes, I'm aware of the survival rate statistic but that's A) coming out of the hallowed blight event and
Random groups are included in that statistic.Were just lucky (or maybe unlucky) that there are so many bad survivors out there, DBD would be unbearable otherwise but maybe that would force the devs to balance SWF....
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Well seeing as there easier to kill as a team then solo I'd say that's a good balence seeing as you basement hook and know ones gonna go for it and use it against them1
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@powerbats said:
@mcNuggets said:
You really need to play a lil bit rank 1 with a mediocre killer and come back and tell us your opinion again.
If you're referring to me I played Spirit at rank 1 and i've seen countless skilled Bubba's, Doctors, Freddy's, Trappers, Hags, etc. Basically all of the supposed unviable killers that seem to do just fine in the hands of people that know what they're doing.
Are some of the killers underpowered compared to others yes, but it's amazing that they can still 4k and stomp competent SWF teams because they know how to play them,.
Not every SWF is skilled tho.
A reallly skilled SWF will beat any killer (besides) nurse without any counter play.Games of the length of 4 minutes with insta heal and decisive strike + communication are not winnable without a nurse.
Survivors HAVE to mess up in the first place in order for a killer to get a down.
Otherwise they can loop you for atleast 3-4 minutes if they use all the pallets + windows effectively and guess how long gens take?There are games where however you good you play you only get 0-1 kills out of it and in the end chat get flamed and insulted.
Of course, the main problem isn't SWF, but gen rushing and the capability of survivors finishing rounds, within 3-4 minutes, if skilled enough. (with the usage of overpowered perks)Marth88 already made 2 "experiments" where it shows how unbalanced playing killer really is, the devs just answered with "We never said it's balanced".
I don't know how people even imply the game is balanced.
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@mcNuggets said:
Not every SWF is skilled tho.
A reallly skilled SWF will beat any killer (besides) nurse without any counter play.Yet people manage to beat those teams with killers besides those 2.
Games of the length of 4 minutes with insta heal and decisive strike + communication are not winnable without a nurse.
Ok here goes the new timer excuse so to speak before it was games were under 3 minutes and you put in an artificial timer to bolster your argument. Throw out the fake determined timer nonsense along with the predetermined loadouts.
I've destroyed 4 insta heals/DS/DH/SC/AD SWF teams before because I didn't play how they wanted me too. I played according to how I wanted to and and took advantage of their teamwork and assumptions on how I'd play.
Oh sure i've gotten my butt kicked as well by those teams but those were more foten me playing poorly and not taking advantage of their mistakes.
>Survivors HAVE to mess up in the first place in order for a killer to get a down.
Yes and no since you as a killer can force mistakes and not depend on them doing something stupid. If you're constantly being reactionary waiting for them to screw up you're gong to lose every time.
Otherwise they can loop you for atleast 3-4 minutes if they use all the pallets + windows effectively and guess how long gens take?
If they're looping you for that long you deserve to lose plain and simple.
There are games where however you good you play you only get 0-1 kills out of it and in the end chat get flamed and insulted.
There's games where you 4k and get flamed and insulted and there's games where you have scores all over the place and get a gg.
Of course, the main problem isn't SWF, but gen rushing and the capability of survivors finishing rounds, within 3-4 minutes, if skilled enough. (with the usage of overpowered perks)
Oh good grief just stop already, as I said earlier the 3 minute excuse got overused so now it's the 4 minute excuse. If you're losing games in under 4 minutes so often it's not SWF that's the problem it's you.
Marth88 already made 2 "experiments" where it shows how unbalanced playing killer really is, the devs just answered with "We never said it's balanced".
Yes 4 pro caliber players I.E. the top 0.1% of the player base went up against random killers including ones doing dailies on killers they don't know how to play. Yeah that's a legitimate experiment alright and given all the talk about how rank in meaningless since it's super easy to rank up.
If you really wanted that to be considered valid where's the controls, where's the stuff to keep out confirmation bias, Why not choose 4 random players with around 500 hours each or so which would probably be the average player base.
Then put those 4 together and have them do that experiment, the results would be vastly different but much more realistic. They'd also be much more representative of the overall player base..
I don't know how people even imply the game is balanced.
Most of us acknowledge that the game needs more balancing but we don't use all the excuses in the book and blame swf for everything. I think that if a solo lobby was created and you lot were all stuck there forever without ever being able to leave.
That nothing at all would change you'd just come up with some new excuse or complaint or you'd simply blame swf sneaking into your solo lobbies.
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@powerbats said:
@mcNuggets said:
Not every SWF is skilled tho.
A reallly skilled SWF will beat any killer (besides) nurse without any counter play.Yet people manage to beat those teams with killers besides those 2.
Games of the length of 4 minutes with insta heal and decisive strike + communication are not winnable without a nurse.
Ok here goes the new timer excuse so to speak before it was games were under 3 minutes and you put in an artificial timer to bolster your argument. Throw out the fake determined timer nonsense along with the predetermined loadouts.
I've destroyed 4 insta heals/DS/DH/SC/AD SWF teams before because I didn't play how they wanted me too. I played according to how I wanted to and and took advantage of their teamwork and assumptions on how I'd play.
Oh sure i've gotten my butt kicked as well by those teams but those were more foten me playing poorly and not taking advantage of their mistakes.
>Survivors HAVE to mess up in the first place in order for a killer to get a down.
Yes and no since you as a killer can force mistakes and not depend on them doing something stupid. If you're constantly being reactionary waiting for them to screw up you're gong to lose every time.
Otherwise they can loop you for atleast 3-4 minutes if they use all the pallets + windows effectively and guess how long gens take?
If they're looping you for that long you deserve to lose plain and simple.
There are games where however you good you play you only get 0-1 kills out of it and in the end chat get flamed and insulted.
There's games where you 4k and get flamed and insulted and there's games where you have scores all over the place and get a gg.
Of course, the main problem isn't SWF, but gen rushing and the capability of survivors finishing rounds, within 3-4 minutes, if skilled enough. (with the usage of overpowered perks)
Oh good grief just stop already, as I said earlier the 3 minute excuse got overused so now it's the 4 minute excuse. If you're losing games in under 4 minutes so often it's not SWF that's the problem it's you.
Marth88 already made 2 "experiments" where it shows how unbalanced playing killer really is, the devs just answered with "We never said it's balanced".
Yes 4 pro caliber players I.E. the top 0.1% of the player base went up against random killers including ones doing dailies on killers they don't know how to play. Yeah that's a legitimate experiment alright and given all the talk about how rank in meaningless since it's super easy to rank up.
If you really wanted that to be considered valid where's the controls, where's the stuff to keep out confirmation bias, Why not choose 4 random players with around 500 hours each or so which would probably be the average player base.
Then put those 4 together and have them do that experiment, the results would be vastly different but much more realistic. They'd also be much more representative of the overall player base..
I don't know how people even imply the game is balanced.
Most of us acknowledge that the game needs more balancing but we don't use all the excuses in the book and blame swf for everything. I think that if a solo lobby was created and you lot were all stuck there forever without ever being able to leave.
That nothing at all would change you'd just come up with some new excuse or complaint or you'd simply blame swf sneaking into your solo lobbies.
All you say is, you destroyed some good swf players and therefore SWF and the game is balanced.
One of my arguments was, that solo players can also destroy killers with near to no counter play.If you dominate a survivor team (swf or not), they had to mess up greatly and everything could be avoided by them with the right strategy.
As killer (not nurse obv) you don't stand a chance against good survivors, no matter how good you are.
If you verse 4 really good survivors with the right perks, you are just not able to win.Also the experiment was on rank 1, if casual killer players are on rank 1, they would atleast have some knowledge about how to play killer, also playing killer really isn't that hard.
They also had time in the lobby to prepare themselves for the game too.The experiment just showed how inbalanced the game is, nothing more, nothing less.
Every killer player had the same chance to win and they versed people on the red ranks.I am not searching any excuses, I don't know why you accuse me of that, I am not even a fleshed out killer main, I am playing both roles equally, but I have eyes and can see the inbalance.
Whenever I play survivor, I just feel, I am the power role and I don't need to fear #########.Btw. playing in a SWF give you a huge advantage you don't have as solo player, that's a fact, if you like it or not.
Solo players can still ######### over killers like SWFs, I never questioned that though, but it's harder to do so, which makes it more balanced.If you really want proof about how bad killers really are, you could try to dominate me and my friends as a ordinary killer and we see how it ends for ya
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The game is not meant to allow for SWF. If SWF is in play, experienced Survivors with Self-Care, DS and all the other meta perks WILL run circles around the killer. Have fun playing against a 4 man SWF looper team. Getting downed in the right locations to allow for pallet and flashlight saves.
Self-Care, something that everyone has, eliminates a side objective: Getting healed. Other Survivors don't have to get off gens to heal you, and you don't have to spend time looking for medkits.
Non-obsession DS users are easy to counter. Get to hooks quickly. Maybe use Agitation for faster speed or Iron Grasp to make it longer for them to reach the DS point.
Obsession DS users... MAYBE try and use a mori or Rancor? You can also try to line them up in a certain position with the basement stairs to completely negate the stun received from DS. There is environmental counterplay for DS.0
