Is there anything more pathetic..

@MegMain98 said:
Wolf74 said:

So we have an ingame mechanic that can deny the killer 4K by giving the last survivor a free escape, but a killer playing tactically around that mechanic to get the 4th kill is "pathetic"?

But other survivor mains told me that slugging is actually the build in ingame mechanic to counter the hatch.

So sides one free mechanic is legit, but to counter it with tactic ans strategy is cheap?

Slugging and trying to find the other survivor is fine, but when you camp the slugged survivor and expect the other survivor to come and heal them but you’re standing right beside the slugged survivor is cheap. It drags on the game and isn’t worth a 4K. Hook the survivor and find the other one, it isn’t that hard. If they get the hatch so what?

A hatch is not a “free escape” by the way. You have to actually get generators done for the hatch to even spawn. One time my whole time died to a Leatherface and I fixed two whole generator BY MYSELF. Then I got the hatch and escaped so kindly explain to me how the hatch is a “free escape”? 

When you look at it this way no that is not a free escape that was a bad ass spectacle of survival, I would love to watch that if you recorded it. Getting two Gens against a Leatherface all alone, you deserved that Hatch for such a masterful performance.

I get that the Hatch exists so players can escape the match when all hope is lost, it's there because the game has no timer and I hate timed matches because it's not realistic. When we go for that 4K it's not because we're try-hards it's because it's our objective to hook and kill, there's 4 people so that's 4 people to potentially hook and kill. We get disappointed that we didn't get the 4K but it's nothing to get angry over if we lose it. What is infuriating is that the Hatch is broken to the point that Hatch standoffs exist, just existing is infuriating and it's a joke. It makes fun of killers and makes them look like a try hard for wanting what to play the game and kill everyone. The standoff needs to go the Hatch can stay, simply getting rid of the Grab when they jump in solves this solution, simply forcing a grab when a Survivor stands on the Hatch whether they are wounded or not can also solve this. But those are both extremes and unfair to either player.

But back to the slugging and camping the body, that's just stupid, go find the other player, one bled out and the other gets the Hatch? Why camp the body in the first place?

@The_Crusader said:
Trust Wolf to defend it 🤣

lol im seeing you two guys everywhere i look
do u guys just camp the forums or something

@Wolf74 said:

@MegMain98 said:
Wolf74 said:

So we have an ingame mechanic that can deny the killer 4K by giving the last survivor a free escape, but a killer playing tactically around that mechanic to get the 4th kill is "pathetic"?

But other survivor mains told me that slugging is actually the build in ingame mechanic to counter the hatch.

So sides one free mechanic is legit, but to counter it with tactic ans strategy is cheap?

Slugging and trying to find the other survivor is fine, but when you camp the slugged survivor and expect the other survivor to come and heal them but you’re standing right beside the slugged survivor is cheap. It drags on the game and isn’t worth a 4K. Hook the survivor and find the other one, it isn’t that hard. If they get the hatch so what?

A hatch is not a “free escape” by the way. You have to actually get generators done for the hatch to even spawn. One time my whole time died to a Leatherface and I fixed two whole generator BY MYSELF. Then I got the hatch and escaped so kindly explain to me how the hatch is a “free escape”? 

It is a "tactic".
Cheap? Maybe.
Easy to use? Yes.
Efficient? Depends on your goals as a killer.
If "just hook 'em and search the next" would be so easy as everyone here claim it to be,we wouldn't have this debate.
Why should the killer risk a free unhook, with him on the other side of the map and risk loosing both?

And about the hatch (again), it is "free", because the person using it is not required to have achieved anything.
The one using the hatch could have hide in a locker al match and still could use the hatch.
And if your whole team died before they managed to get TWO gens done, the killer actually deserve the 4K anyway.

I totally forgot to mention that, in Meg's case it was NOT a free escape BUT in many situations, it is a free escape. If the person who does nothing all match is the last Survivor and gets the hatch then they're a loser because they were just good at hiding and didn't do anything, no Gens, no chases, etc, just waiting. Those people exist.

If there are two people left and the Hatch has spawned and one of them is waiting for the other to die the one who gets the Hatch is a free escape. Yes it's a gamble of who dies it could be anyone but it's still one waiting on the other to just die instead of actually helping each other. It is a strategy yes but it's a waiting game of who doesn't get caught and that person just says yeet as their buddy dies. You could argue that they were better at hiding so therefore they deserve that Hatch but I'm not talking about in relation to the Killer I'm talking about the Survivors and their teamwork, to me that is what a free escape is about, the Survivor not being a team player and that person does not deserve the escape because they outlasted everyone else.

If every Killer's version of free escape is different than mine then I guess I'm just more complicated in my thinking process in fairness and such.

HatCreature said:

@MegMain98 said:
Wolf74 said:

So we have an ingame mechanic that can deny the killer 4K by giving the last survivor a free escape, but a killer playing tactically around that mechanic to get the 4th kill is "pathetic"?

But other survivor mains told me that slugging is actually the build in ingame mechanic to counter the hatch.

So sides one free mechanic is legit, but to counter it with tactic ans strategy is cheap?

Slugging and trying to find the other survivor is fine, but when you camp the slugged survivor and expect the other survivor to come and heal them but you’re standing right beside the slugged survivor is cheap. It drags on the game and isn’t worth a 4K. Hook the survivor and find the other one, it isn’t that hard. If they get the hatch so what?

A hatch is not a “free escape” by the way. You have to actually get generators done for the hatch to even spawn. One time my whole time died to a Leatherface and I fixed two whole generator BY MYSELF. Then I got the hatch and escaped so kindly explain to me how the hatch is a “free escape”? 

When you look at it this way no that is not a free escape that was a bad ass spectacle of survival, I would love to watch that if you recorded it. Getting two Gens against a Leatherface all alone, you deserved that Hatch for such a masterful performance.

I get that the Hatch exists so players can escape the match when all hope is lost, it's there because the game has no timer and I hate timed matches because it's not realistic. When we go for that 4K it's not because we're try-hards it's because it's our objective to hook and kill, there's 4 people so that's 4 people to potentially hook and kill. We get disappointed that we didn't get the 4K but it's nothing to get angry over if we lose it. What is infuriating is that the Hatch is broken to the point that Hatch standoffs exist, just existing is infuriating and it's a joke. It makes fun of killers and makes them look like a try hard for wanting what to play the game and kill everyone. The standoff needs to go the Hatch can stay, simply getting rid of the Grab when they jump in solves this solution, simply forcing a grab when a Survivor stands on the Hatch whether they are wounded or not can also solve this. But those are both extremes and unfair to either player.

But back to the slugging and camping the body, that's just stupid, go find the other player, one bled out and the other gets the Hatch? Why camp the body in the first place?

I actually did record it, it’s saved to my video clips on my PS4. I was still relatively new at the time (probably like Rank 13) and my team got demolished so I was forced to fix two gens by myself.

I was used to timed matches (I used to play F13 ALL the time) so I could easy outrun the killer in a timed match so this was just a new experience, I do agree however I like the matches that aren’t timed better. It gets extremely frustrating to kill three people and then that one who did NOTHING the entire round gets the hatch. In that case it is a definite free escape because they did nothing at all.

In the PTB for the Clown I did lile the idea of closing the hatch but it was somewhat overpowered because the last survivor had almost no chance for an escape. However I do believe that whoever finds the hatch first should basically be the victor. It needed a couple of adjustments on to open the hatch again because fixing an entire generator by yourself with ONLY you and the killer left is kind of OP on the killers side.

I don’t think I’ve ever lost a hatch standoff to a killer because it is kind of easier for a survivor to win a hatch standoff. The killer just has to make one mistake and the survivor can bait the killer into a swing. The only killer you can’t win a standoff with is Tombstone Myers.

Big question: Was the survivor an obsession (not due to the killer's perk choices)? If so, I don't blame 'em for letting 'em lay slugged... it'll give 'em some time to ponder over a different perk selection for the next game. Otherwise, hook 'em, enjoy the 4K, and move on to the next match.

Edit: Upon rereading responses, I see Wolf touched on the very real possibility of DS (and the likely free escape) above.

Guess we could pull the old chestnut others tend to throw out of "fix it by running this perk every game" with No Mither or Unbreakable.

Ahh, OK. Got it now. So you were last man standing, killer had downed the other survivor and camping his slugged body to bait you out. I guess it depends on the number and placement of gens left in correlation to where the downed survivor and camp-a-Doc was hanging out (and what items and/or perks I had at the moment) on what I'd do in that situation.

It definitely puts you in a difficult predicament, but it's a smart and legitimate move. If you're a killer after a 4K (and, to be fair, what killer actually goes into a match saying, "Man, I can't wait to kill 3 and let one get the hatch!"... nor should they), slug and bug that 3rd survivor so the 4th can't just be hanging out near the hatch waiting on it to pop. I'd chalk it up to bad hatch mechanics that the devs have yet to address which kinda' force that situation upon both sides: the survivor who wants to escape and the killer who wants to kill.

i know whats more pathetic, deeming this post worth a discussion.

@Wolf74 said:

@Orion said:

@Wolf74 said:

@Orion said:

@Wolf74 said:
So we have an ingame mechanic that can deny the killer 4K by giving the last survivor a free escape, but a killer playing tactically around that mechanic to get the 4th kill is "pathetic"?
But other survivor mains told me that slugging is actually the build in ingame mechanic to counter the hatch.
So sides one free mechanic is legit, but to counter it with tactic ans strategy is cheap?

There's a big difference between slugging to give yourself more time to find the other guy and slugging while waiting for the slugged Survivor to die. The latter, which is what the OP is complaining about, forces the remaining Survivor to move around to avoid the AFK crows, yet does nothing to help you win. It's borderline exploitative.

Erm… you mean slugging AFTER the other escaped or got killer or guarding the slugged while the other survivor is still around?

Guarding the slug while the other guy is still around.

Why not?
Is the downed guy the obsession? Could he have DS?
Without any clue where to search on anything but the smallest maps is pretty much a free pick up.
Since they buffed recovery that can happen in a run by.
If the killer is giving the other person the time to go search for the hatch and he is just making sure to get his 3rd K, why not?
It's still the killers choice.
Would I do it? Most likely not.
Would I want to have the option to? Yes.

I agree that the Killer should have the option to do it, but I also think that if the guy doesn't have DS and you could've hooked him at any point in time, slugging the one guy while the other one has no choice but to walk around the map doing nothing for several minutes (because of the crows) is borderline exploitative. At the very least, it's a dick move. It does nothing to help you win, since you know the last guy is not going to save.

@Wolf74 said:

@thesuicidefox said:
I had an hour long game against a Spirit that outright refused to kill a guy because she wanted the 4k. I was injured (no SC and no medkit, all the chests were opened) and we need to do 2 more gens. I knew where hatch was, which was on the opposite side of the map from the other survivor. She would down him, camp the body, then get impatient and pick-up/drop them until they broke free. Then she would chase them for a bit and down them again. She did this OVER 10 TIMES!!!! What utter bull #########.

The guy messaged me (Xbox) and said "do gens" which I replied "I can't bc I'm injured and I also only know where 1 gen is" (it was on Lery's and the only gen I knew about was in treatment center which was basically suicide). Eventually I found another gen in a corner somewhere, so I told him to just keep her away from this side of the map. I did that gen, she continued to do her BS. At some point she let the guy go completely, and he healed then found me and healed me. We split up and I found another gen (he went to TC to do that gen). She found him obviously, but he was maybe 15 seconds from bleeding out. He did the gen in her face, and she finally decided to hook him. I dodged her BBQ making her think I went to the gate and took hatch.

The really sad part is that this killer would have easily double pipped if she just killed the guy when she caught him that first time. She got a hook on me already, and there were 2 gens left. She basically held the game hostage for no reason other than to satisfy her ego, and at the end of ALL that BS she still didn't kill me (a typical outcome to these sorts of games). I told the guy thank you for taking the death and I owe him one if I see him again in the future. I woulda been fine to trade places with him if necessary, but that's not how things went down. He was cool about it and just wanted 1 of us to escape, so we at least accomplished that.

Killers that do this are literal cancer to the game. If she wants to slug the guy and come look for me, fine, but don't expect me to be a moron and come heal the guy when it's obvious you are camping him. Man up and leave, take the chance I save him if you want the 4k. Or kill him and take your 2 pip so the game can end. Don't be a spoiled brat.

@Orion Is the above a "dick move"? Most likely, yes.
Was it unfair or an exploit? No.
Can a killer really take the game hostage that way? No.
(Taking hostage as a killer only works with last survivor and no hatch or with bodyblocking the basement)
Who do you want to play the judge? Situations like this have so many variables, especially on the person playing it. Do you really want mechanics that force player to play a certain way to avoid this? Such things would always impact ALL player, not just the "dicks".
And btw, survivor play like douches for 2 years now and there are no outcry to force any mechanics on them to avoid that.
Not leaving the map while the gate is already open and farm extra chase points by looping near the gate and stuff like that.

I said borderline exploitative. I don't want mechanics that force players to play in a certain way to avoid this, I just agree that it's a dick move.

@The_Crusader said:
Yes I've had this too. They can't find the other guy, often because they won't leave the first, so they just pick them up and knock them down again to prevent bleed out.

It absolutely is holding the game hostage it's always the crap killers who do this too who only get to that position by picking off the 2 rank 16s who got put into the game with you

Survivors should have the option of bleeding out at 2x speed.

In that case above I would have just disconnected to let the other guy get the hatch. People can call it cheap but I haven't got time to sit through half an hour of that.

It's not holding the game hostage. That person will die even if they don't want to.

@The_Crusader said:
If they keep getting picked up and downed again it will be an extremely long process.

Its holding it hostage. It's trolling. Don't defend every scummy thing in the game.

I've seen it a few times and every time the survivors get fed up and feel forced to disconnect to end the game.

It's not holding hostage. Dick move, yes, but not holding the game hostage.

Once again you prove you're paranoid. I've been supporting you this whole time, saying it's a dick move, but the second I point out you're making a false claim, I'm "defending every scummy thing in the game".
Maybe you should take a look in the mirror, do some honest introspection, and figure out why disagreement triggers you so much.

It's only holding the game hostage if they're the last survivor left in the game since at that point they're just trying to be toxic over it. I actually had a game where the killer wouldn't hook me at all for over 15 minutes, they'd let me wiggle out chase me and down me then pick me up.

But for the situation you described @Crusader it's borderline exploitative and definitely a dick move on their part and i've had killers do the same thing. I run premonition when solo since it's great for that stuff and I've had killers get pissed as well as survivors because i wouldn't take the bait.

Now if the killer repeatedly picks them up and drops them waiting for you while standing over them that's definitely borderline as well.

I agree with OP, bad strat and boring for everyone. Either look for the other survivor or hook the downed one. Unless you have insidious the other survivor is not even coming near you. If there aren't 2 gens done it gives them plenty of time to do it. If the slug dies, you're still in the same predicament as you would have been if you'd hooked the slug and gotten more points. God forbid one escapes, and yes, sometimes it an azzhole player that did nothing but urbanly evade the entire match but it doesn't mean the good players should pay with no chance of escape if the entire team goes down 2 gens into the match. I do think the hatch should be timed. I wouldn't mind if it closed after say 2 minutes and you had to do a gen to open it. I know that would totally swing hatch standoffs in the killers favor, so there would probably need to be some alternatives there.

MegMain98 said:

Wolf74 said:

So we have an ingame mechanic that can deny the killer 4K by giving the last survivor a free escape, but a killer playing tactically around that mechanic to get the 4th kill is "pathetic"?
But other survivor mains told me that slugging is actually the build in ingame mechanic to counter the hatch.
So sides one free mechanic is legit, but to counter it with tactic ans strategy is cheap?

Slugging and trying to find the other survivor is fine, but when you camp the slugged survivor and expect the other survivor to come and heal them but you’re standing right beside the slugged survivor is cheap. It drags on the game and isn’t worth a 4K. Hook the survivor and find the other one, it isn’t that hard. If they get the hatch so what?

A hatch is not a “free escape” by the way. You have to actually get generators done for the hatch to even spawn. One time my whole time died to a Leatherface and I fixed two whole generator BY MYSELF. Then I got the hatch and escaped so kindly explain to me how the hatch is a “free escape”? 

I've had too many times where the person who got hatch was also the person hiding and doing nothing. It feels like a free escape as there's no counter play. It's boring for both party tbh and a battle of who will wait longer.