What do we think about current DS?
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It could be changed to 45 seconds like Pop I think that would be fair. I use it still sometimes but it's not often I get to use it so mostly I prefer other perks. But I can still feel sorry for the killer who manage to down me again fairly because I made a mistake and yet I can get a free escape because it has 60 second timer.
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I think it really, really doesn't matter. The fastest self heal you can get is like, 8 seconds with Inner Strength? Maybe something slightly slower with a medkit + healing build? And the only "game progression" it enables is not wasting 16 seconds of a teammate's time while they go do something else- chances are that if those 16 seconds were THAT valuable to them, they weren't gonna bother healing the unhooked guy, anyways. Plus, unless you're a killer with a one-hit down ability/have a one hit ability active, having DS still active on a fully healed person doesn't matter because healing time+chase time is more than likely going to outlast the DS timer if the survivor is any good at all.
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How do you think that's possible? That's pretty interesting...
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It still prevents efficient tunneling and is a decent second chance, people asking for it to have multiple uses are either way under the level of gameplay matchmaking decides them to be in or just want more and more tools to bully the killer for free. Denying a hook and getting a healthstate back, having a second chance to run into a decent loop and lose more of the killers time while other survivors hit objectives hurts a ######### lot, thats why you respect and don't straight up tunnel people if you want to get a 4k against decent players. DS and BT were put into a decent spot after the changes idk why people keep bringing this up every couple of days, it makes the forum so annoying to look through.
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I'd be OK if BT added having no scratch marks for the 10 seconds time
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DS is perfectly balanced. Anyone who complains about it only used it for 60 seconds of free invulnerability. This is now a TRUE anti tunnel perk.
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What I have in mind are
. A DS as basekit
. Equip DS perk, you can use it twice a match.
. DS is not active when Gates powered.
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Problem is this change exposed how little it does against actual tunnelling
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I wouldnt mind if it deactivated after you fully heal yourself but the fact it deactivates immediately means you can get unhooked and if you started healing even for a second then it deactivates and the killer can still tunnel you...
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I think it's fine. I still use DS even after all the changes it went through
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i think the ds should still active if you heal your teammates or when you get slugged timer pause. it's only fair
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Well,if a killer REALLY wants you dead then there's not much you can do against it other than wasting as much time as possible.
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DS is a 4th hook state should the killer decide to tunnel you. Do people not realize how powerful that is? "Oh just let us use it after every hook" You think it's okay to have 5 hook states? Really? DS is meant to delay tunneling not stop it, tunneling is a valid killer strat and will never go away, nor should it. The perk is in a perfect place, if you dislike tunneling that much then play with friends, it's your team's responsibility to help stop you from being tunneled.
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What is the escape rate? As in that specific chase or escape the Trial?
Imo DS doesn't do enough. It's a chase extender, the best time is during EGC AND being fairly close to the Exit Gate. In this case, it is likely you will escape. Unless you miss the Skill Check or the timer has progressed too far. DS is also too easy to circumvent and even a successful strike means little against most killers. And then there's the guaranteed second tunnel but this time without DS lol So much fun.
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There are survivors that if you tunnel them theyll run you for 5 gens. Try to be at least half as goid as them and most killers will stop tunneling you
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I think it should have some minor changes. Should definitely have two uses per game to make it more anti-tunnel. Issue here is then a slug meta will kick in. Other thing is that survivors are still playing offensively with it when it is not meant for that.
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This is such a stupid reply and doesn't even address the point. Sure "get good" is always the go-to, even when you lack information pertaining to my skill. Every killer and survivor that has feedback about things should just perform at the highest levels to overcome the need for a perk, noted. Besides who wants to be in a five gen chase? I don't, you get nothing done and often lose a pip and get low points.
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Youd rather do gens instead of being chased? Why? Even if i get wrecked id rather be chased.
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In regards to "get good" my general point was if its possible for 1 survivor to run a killer that long its possible for all survivirs to. This isnt a 1v1 game its a 4v1 game. Imagine for a moment that the devs gave survivors everything they want, major buffs to antitunneling mechanism, major overhaul so camping wasnt possible, and 2 of the survivors were just half as good as the ones that can run you for 5 gens. The game woukd literally be impossible to win. If i chase one of your teammates and i can tell theyre really good, I HAVE to leave them for later in the match. If i come across you and you show me you suck, I HAVE to get rid of you so i have time to chase that better survivor. If my point was "get good" i woukd have said that, my point was killers HAVE TO get rid of the bad runners first. They just do. And thats in todays game, if you make it worse by adding in other mechanics that hinder a kikkers ability to get rid of the weaker ones first then you ruin their ability to win at all.
Unless of course you want to start adding in mandatory secondary objectives and reduce some of the chase mechanics, then we can talk.
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Still useful. You just have to be mindful of it as a survivor and play around it. I still use it in an offensive manner. Bait the killer into peeling off a chase and then hop in a locker. Stuff like that.
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it should activate after both unhooks, then its perfect.
id also like to see other things to make it excel at anti tunnel (like pausing the timer while in chase, or something like that) but its not needed
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This is my opinion. It is backed up by precisely zero data, it's just my perception.
DS has two uses. One is to add a cost to Killers who tunnel. Note I am not saying it prevents tunnelling; it just ads a cost. The other use is to get some "invulnerability time" in which to bully the Killer. An example is working on a gen or healing someone with the Killer right there knowing that they can't get you immediately since you have your DS protection.
A large number of people who use DS use it for purpose 2, and now that they can't as easily, they have stopped. Those using it for purpose 1 can still do so with no loss of efficacy. Also, its use near exit gates hasn't changed.
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I don't use it but from what I've seen it works much better as an anti tunnel perk than before.
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I think it should deactivate if a survivor is opening a gate but I rarely see the perk in my killer matches so we can probably leave it alone. Also having it work after both hooks is a little bit much. And it can really hurt a killer when they need a kill.
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DS gives you a chance, your chase skills make use of that chance and that's how it should be. The game should not just guarantee you escape just because the killer is going after you.
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Just like many others who have used the perk before and after the changes, I agree that Decisive Strike is weak. It wasn't balanced; but nerf'd. Interesting enough they "changed" the only so called "anti-tunneling" perk but still haven't addressed or a solution to tunneling. Their answer is that tunneling is a strategy; which I'm ok with if you have a direct counter to it.
My suggestions would be:
- Only deactivate upon doing objectives. (Generators, Totems, Sabotage & Unhooks)
- Remain active if self-caring, and/or healing. (Reason why: you have Killers like Leatherface, Myers, Ghostface, who can still one hit down you after you've healed up all within 60sec) Your DS remaining active will negate this.
- Remove scratch marks, blood, grunts & pains for 5sec once activated. (Meaning: while the killer is stunned for 5sec, this allows you 5sec to get away.)
That will truly allow the perk to be anti-tunneling, and yet balanced as well. I also believe that activating once a trial is more than enough with these changes. Especially if all four survivors are running this perk.
I play both Killer and Survivor equally, and I don't tunnel; even when I'm taunted by players. Just because "it's a strategy" doesn't make it fun. When I play survivor it's not fun having a killer tunnel me out the gamel.
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Oh i'll always dislike it.
Can't help it, i'll always dislike stuns in videogames, especially in games where seconds matter.
That said i rarely get hit by it, so it's hard to really despise it.
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I think had people not used it as some ego-boosting thing to mock the killer more than to punish them for tunneling, there might not have been a change.
Except maybe having it function as a kind of BT within a certain radius of the hook, so you could take a protection hit for the person unhooking you. or something
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I think DS is too underpowered now but its hard to balance. They should have kept DS for selfheals (exclude healing other survivors) and pickup Survivors but exclude working on Gens imo.
It deserved the nerf but not how hard the nerf was.
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DS now punishes survivor for doing the objective. Its too situational now hence why less survivors use it. Its a bit ironic right now because only way to physically get value of decisive strike reliably is to actually abuse the perk for its invincibility and you do that by body-blocking your teammates who is in the chase than pick yourself up with unbreakable(or pick-up DS). Its only other usage to act as late-game perk that allows you to crawl into exit gate but at that point, use Adrenaline for a late game perk. Its mostly wasted perk slot. It got MoM treatment, powerful effect that is not worth playing around compare to playing normal. Survivors just use Borrow time if they're expecting to get hit off hook.
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Well, DS resets if they do something other than get chased or hide. Point being, it's supposed to always be there if you need it, not something you actively seek value out of.
Think of Unbreakable. People don't go out of their way to get slugged just to get value out of UB. They have it IN CASE they need value you from it, not TO GET value from it. DS should be treated the same way. Nobody should go out of their way to use it, it should be there in the event it NEEDS to be used.
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Its pretty bad rn i think it should stay 1 minute but doesnt cancel the second u do anything else. Maybe it should be like if u start an action it reduces the timer to 20 seconds
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I mean if your getting value of the perk so seldomly from its large list of conditions, than you might as well be playing three perk slots. a perk that rarely activates might as be an empty perk slot. At the same time, perks that always active but do not have game-changing effects often do not get used. Perks that you have to go out of your way to get value out of them generally are not good. Its why I do not really rate unbreakable too highly because if you worked out ways to not go down in first place(prevent slugging advantageous slugging situations) than you'll never need unbreakable in the first place.
If the perk was good, than BVHR wouldn't need to add an obsession to every single match for free.
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Not really. It's possible to heal while being chased, especially if you have a fast med kit and/or perks.
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Fair enough. Stun mechanics are quite annoying but it’s a necessary evil in this game
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This topic is about DS; stay focused.
Not interested in your reductive slippery slope. Besides the fact that Survivor and/or Killer players aren't a monolith, not everyone wants the same thing. Imo, the existing iteration of DS doesn't go far enough. There is room to fulfill the stated objective with some tweaks to the perk. It doesn't have to be as dramatic and world-ending as you suggest. Idk what the looks like and at what cost so it's nice to see proposed ideas.
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DS is often unavailable when you NEED it because you were tunneled but not picked up until after the timer runs out. It's so easy to circumvent; that is probably why people try to use it. I'm not suggesting it last in perpetuity but the timer is limited despite all of the conditions needed to trigger it.
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Do i seriously need to go back to my post and point to the part where i said buffing antitunneling/camping (which includes ds obviously) perks could have a serious impact on the game at even average levels? I am focused on the topic. You just missed it to rage 🤷♂️ ds in its current form is fine. I run it almost every game
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That's your dramatic opinion but don't act like it is binding or authoritative. Don't conflate your opinion with fact. Clearly, our opinions differ, in fact, there is no consensus thus these topics exist to discuss.
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Yeah its not really my opinion though. Pick any goid killer you want, ohtz, jund, tru3, cmwinters, any of them. In all games its 100% necessary to tunnel, camp or slug during games. Its simple math. I can give you a really basic example.
Lets say on average it takes 7 seconds to hook a survivor, that includes the animation then walking them to the hook, tgen the animation of hooking them.
In that 7 seconds you lost 21 seconds if generator time (7 seconds x 3 survivors). 1 gen only takes 80 seconds, so you lost a quarter of a gen JUST HOOKING 1 PERSON. Hook 4 people and thats 1 gen gone. Thats not getting into finding chasing and hitting people.
You can choise to ignore reality all you want to, these are facts.
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"Let's not discuss absolutely any changes to DS bc in my sole and absolute opinion, it would devastate the game and is fine the way it is, and here are some streamers that agree" is your argument.
Again, your opinion isn't factual or binding bc career players may concur with it. The final authority on the matter is the devs and they have not ruled out adjustments to DS in the future. You sound as dramatic as people that declared the game would die if X was buffed or nerfed. The devs encourage community discussions and listen to feedback.
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Thats not what i said at all, i also gave you simple math to highlight my point. But if youre not willing to listen i guess theres not much point in explaining further 🤷♂️
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You're all over the place but I agree, no further point in discussing your personal position on DS.
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before was a overratet perk, but its a joke... i mean you need to be usless for 1 min to use it, when you get DS without to tunnel 1 person, remember he was 40-50sec completly usless xD
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I think that's an absolutely fair criticism. In it's current form, I would not mind seeing the timer for DS buffed. In fact, before the nerf, when people argued about it having the conditions it has now, I was someone that actually DID say it could run forever until they did a gen, healed, etc. I still wouldn't mind that.
DS certainly needed the nerf it got, but I would not mind a buff to make it a little stronger so long as it keeps its deactivation conditions.
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I think DS is a minor inconvenience to killers who want to tunnel you.
I've brought it to keep from being tunneled and if that killer really wants to tunnel me they can and will. Personally I'm all for it being usable twice. That or we need a new perk that helps to discourage tunneling because BT seems 50/50 these days (And killers tunnel through that as well).
It's just really jarring when someone really tunnels you hardcore and you've done absolutely nothing "wrong" or disrespectful. Makes me happy that moris were nerfed hard because these are probably the same people who brought old ebony moris. I understand not every killer can and will play for fun but I try to treat others with respect when I play both sides and there's just always going to be people on both sides who are mean. Idk
But yeah I'm all for buffing DS since I think it's kind of laughable at discouraging tunneling.
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Make It so that it is capable of working twice in one match. This is already a common suggestion for the perk, but I really do think DS needs it.
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It isn't an anti tunneling perk. Killers eat ds and are back on you, same as bt. They chew through it and still tunnel. I stopped using ds. And if a killer is camping as the unhooker they will down you just to go redown the unhooked, even if they are on the other side of the map. Happened to me too often. Ignored everyone and just tunneled me again and again. Tried to save teammates as well or take aggro and nothing.
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it is still strong perk since the only perk that can prevent tunneling.
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Ehm just no, from someone who plays both roles. If killers almost need to tunnel to win, it's a problem within the foundation of the game
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