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SWF needing a Nerf
Now I have been playing 3 to almost 4 year this August 2021, and I seen a lot in this game, but the one thing that need to be Nerf or have a detrimental debuff added to it is SWF. Now I will probably receive negative feedback for this but as we speak as I wrote this I had two SWF groups, playing as Ghost face which I will post the videos on my YT at NoctgamingHD, but to explain why I believe SWF should have a debuff, the first team was a discord SWF group finder team they all came in with breakout flashlight builds, we receive the grandma handbook map all they did. Was gen Rush and flashlight breakout me the entire match only hooking 2 people the entire match! The second game was on Demogorgon map, this time it was 3 SWF and a PC random, PC random quit first then afterwards the SWF console player made a pact where they dc when ever they were close to being hooked , one of them found hacth and the last remaining member I was chasing was downed and DCed to allow there Allies to escape though hatch moment later. This the very point of Toxic SWF groups and the very unfair play style,. Killer perks have constantly keep being Nerf to the point we have to stress and hunt players down or be gen rushed in less then 5 minutes cause while one being chased the other 3 are working on Gens. What happen to the fun apparently this game need to be a Pro game where tournament or made and player earn money for winning. I beieve that if you come in with a SWF you should receive a debuff that reduces you but at the same time reicieve a BP buff so that it balance as a high risk high reward system with a SWF group! Hopefully the developers see this and are able to handle this in a effective way that doesn't harm the player base but gel killers deal with this toxic cancer gameplay!
Comments
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Also as a side note I USUALLY rank n the Red tier 2-3 been R1 a few times so this post isn't coming from some of w level player who doesn't understand the game
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You can't simply "nerf" swf without buffing the solo que experience. Many people including myself play swf because the experience is universally much more enjoyable compared to solo que.
There's many threads already regarding swf and the player base already knows that a well-coordinated swf can dominate many killers with the exception of nurse, spirit, and maybe blight. However the solo que experience needs to be in par with the level of swf before ANY changes can be done to swf.
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thats where slugging and tunneling come into play, its not toxic if its how you need to counter them. i think most times its just that killers let them get into their head.
but if people do think swf needs a change, just make where if you can prove that group was in fact sharing information they wouldn't/shouldn't have known, then its reportable and bannable. best change you can have
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If you truly have been playing this game for close to four years you would know and understand how to counter this BS when it comes about especially what went on in the first match you spoke of. And please tell us all about the previous 20 games in a row where you probably 4k’d every single match. You get your ######### pushed in by a meme squad and come here to complain? lol
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@tattoojake, the point am getting across is the fact you can't prep for every survivor build in the game like you use to back about 2 years ago, and I said you either prep for gen rushing or prep for toxic play styles, and that on majority, we haven't even spoken about the minority build! Now aday killer keep getting Nerf and builds for killer become non existent unless as stated by bran , slugging or tunneling, which gets you no where, and is not fun in the slightest! I play game for fun not to stress about how I have to build a 3 Gen placement to even get 6 hooks!
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I too find SWF extremely tough to play against when they're well-coordinated. However, instead of nerfing SWF, what needs to happen is that solo queuers get a bit of a buff so that they're receiving similar info - in my opinion, icons next to each person's portrait indicating what they're doing (gens, totems, running from the killer, etc.) so that they can coordinate better with their teams.
Then we can buff killers accordingly, since survivors will be more consistent in their knowledge across the board. Otherwise, nerfing survivor knowledge is making solo queue unfairly difficult, and the fact of the matter is that a lot of people queue as solo. Let's be fair and reasonable here
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That's terrible way how to solve it. They need players and most survivors are SWF, why the hell would they make it bannable?
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I can't agree more. Changes I would like to see for soloq:
-let see other survivors when someone is on hook.
-create HUD icon that shows what each survivor is doing (Gen / Totem/ Chase / Walking)
-let survivors see others perks in lobby, so they can adapt and prepare their roles.
Those are things that are easily told for SWF, so it wouldn't change them at all, but buff only soloQ.
Some people suggested bond as base-kit, but that is overkill imo and would help SWF a lot too.
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SWF aren't even that bad, people just see them as being awful because when people think of a SWF they think of the few toxic ones with a 4 man and 4 flashlights. Most SWFs are just friends playing together and having fun, I play with 2 other friends on DBD and we lose the majority of our games and a lot of others do as well!
To solve SWF you need to buff solo queue by making it so you can have kindred and bond as base kit and add a communication wheel. By doing this then SWF and Solo queue will be as strong as each other and you can buff killer a lot easier. Every way people come up with to nerf SWF its guaranteed to then nerf solo queue even more and solo queue is so weak which is why everyone plays SWF.
However, if SWF is toxic gameplay then isn't camping? i don't mind tunneling as much but camping is legit standing in front of someone staring at them? shouldn't that be punished?
Post edited by Gay Myers (Luzi) on0 -
that was just me joking around to be honest.
but if it is such a big issue, just ban em, easiest thing. xd
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I agree that his idea is the most stupid thing I have read on this forum so far. I agree SWF are not always bad, but SWF toxic with flashlights are not problem, those are usually useless. SWF that don't waste time and are able to finish game in 5 minutes are problem.
Yes, soloQ needs buff, we just have different opinions on how to do it. I think I argue with you on how to buff soloq in different post, so I will ignore that.
Make camping / tunneling bannable is almost as stupid as his suggestion. I don't care about camping Bubba at 5 gens, it is toxic will lose him game and survivor, but it is sometimes fun to meme with stuff like that.
Thing is that if you have 3-gen, your hex is nearby and survivor on hook, then there is absolutely not any reason for you to leave that place and would be stupid if you could get banned for playing correctly.
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come on, clearly that second part was a joke.
but if people rather nerf the game just because the player decided to play with their friends. what's the easiest thing to do? just ban any swf who can be proven to have shared a bit too much information. streamers beware xd.
i dont even care for swf when i play against them. more power to em
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The banning part was a joke lmao...
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SWFs are terrible for the game balance and my suggestion on this topic was to restrict the amount of perks a group can take. (Simply because of the additional information they get from voice chatting together.)
Solo = 4
Duo = 3
Trio = 2
Quad = 1
Alternatively, I suggested powering down the effects of perks but that would take a good amount of work to implement due to how some perks can just work with a few values going up or down, but others aren't so simple. Basically 1/(Survivors in group) times the effect of a perk to put it simply.
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You can't really do that. 4 new survivors will be ######### and have to play with dog ######### perks even tho they are noobs.
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Yea I agree...
I mean playing solo queue is way weaker and different from playing with friends, but both are the same in terms of repair speed and stats overall.
So yea they should do something about how many players got in a game from the same lobby.
Because from killer side, there is nothing they can do more if it is a SWF or a whole team of randoms solo queue.
The fact is a 4 swf squad can synchronise their actions, tell their team where the killer is, if their are chased tell their squad to gen rush, etc. Overall, a swf 4 men squad can win a lot of time in a trial and make a harder time to the killer while a bunch of solo survs can't do these.
Overall, a killer against a SWF team has a LOT LESS chances to do well in the trial.
Let's imagine a killer is going against a 2 swf and 2 solo. the swf can still coordinate their actions and talk to each other, but there are still 2 other players who can't get benefits of it, that makes a, let's say a B tier survivor team.
Then, you have the 3 swf and the solo survivor. The solo won't have any benefits of coordinate actions, but could have a lot more chances to survive because the 3 others has a strong benefit about helping him, and the solo can still be very good on their own. Let's say it is a A tier survivor Team.
Finally we have a whole 4 squad of SWF, everyone can be very very strong surv, loop gods, very well coordinated, etc. This kind of team is clearly a S tier team.
So, in the end, the same player who plays the same killer against these different type of teams won't have the same chances to win and perform well because SWF have the same repair speed as if it was against 4 solo queue... Something has to be nerfed somehow, but it unfortunately has been a while since people complain against SWF, and nothing is done to improve this issue.
I think that there should be a certain percentage of speed repair debuff according on how many are paired in swf in a lobby.
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The inter-team voice communication is a substitute for many information perks. It's also pretty unlikely that you will have 4 completely new players starting up the game for the first time together. Usually it's 2 players in a group which would still allow them 3 perks. The problem are higher tier SWFs of 4 players that aren't braindead. That's who this is meant to hinder. (+ Newbies often can't even utilize 4 perks.)
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But it happens. Me and my friends started like that. With current grind you really don't want to make this game even less noob friendly.
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1) kindred exists
2) bond/empathy/you name it, there's like 10 aura reading perks to let you know where others are and what they're doing
3) that one I can stand behind, but at the same time not.. I don't run meta perks, I don't want 3-man swf groups to dodge playing with me because of the builds I run
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Yes, it exist. So you are saying soloq should play with only 3 perks compare to SWF?
Those changes just gives info, that is easy for SWF to give without any perk needed. Those changes are supposed to make gap between soloq and SWF smaller.
You can use 2 perks to make it similar, but then you have 2 perks less compare to SWF, which isn't really fair.
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So you're saying solo queue should play with 5 perks compared to SWF?
How is making kindred base kit for solo players a good idea? And now that you rendered kindred useless, what do you propose they make kindred do? Because, unless you forgot, they changed kindred to do exactly what you proposed, made you see what everyone is doing if someone else is on hook, on top of other players seeing each others' auras while you're on hook (as it used to be before)
That made the gap smaller.
That's also why they added the totem counter to small game, rather than make the totem counter base kit or for solo queue only (another suggestion solo players kept making "boohoo SWFs know how many totems got cleansed but as a solo player I don't" well now you have the tools to do it)
Use the perk, dont expect every perk in the game to become basekit for you just because you're solo. That's not how things work. And it would make things broken as heck.
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Just to clarify I play 90% as killer and almost never survivor as soloq, so it is not for me really...
Kindred would still have that part that reveals killer near hooked survivor, which is still really good. They might give it bigger radius as buff.
You don't make gap smaller by perks, because the fact that one survivor has it just doesn't matter, when other survivors don't get that information.
I suggested 3 things. 2 are not any perk and third is half of perk, which would be easy to buff.
Make call out who will go for unhook in SWF is super easy, but soloq you don't know if someone is going for it, then 2 or 3 survivors go for it and waste so much time doing that.
HUD change helps with that too and as SWF you know others perks by telling or from past game. It prevents multiple Inner Strenght etc.
Where the hell I said every perk? I suggested half of one perk.
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In Pathfinder, there's a problem with certain feats being such obvious picks that they practically became mandatory. There's an alternative ruleset that refers to this as the 'feat tax'.
DBD has a similar issue. You say 'just pick Kindred and Bond' to try and fix solo queue. Okay, that's two slots down.
How do we deal with sluggers? Bring Unbreakable/Soul Guard. 3 slots down.
Camper? Borrowed Time. All slots filled.
Tunneller? DS.
Spirit? Iron Will.
The problem with this kind of approach is that the tax removes any kind of build variety. There's quite a few servicable/good perks that players can't pick up because there's so many mandatory picks that stuff up their roster. And that's just the gameplay value for survivors that's suffering.
Because when you attempt to balance the game, it's not really a good idea to have one gamemode where some survivors get Kindred and Bond for free, and some survivors don't. Because then how do you balance killers against these two?
So you're saying solo queue should play with 5 perks compared to SWF?
It's not a case of solo queue playing with 5 perks, it's a case of Swiffers playing with 6.5 perks, since they get Kindred, Bond and the totem counter for free.
And Kindred in particular should be baseline because any kind of buff for anti-camping measures should be STRONGLY encouraged, considering camping is the absolute worst aspect of the game and is most likely to kill it.
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That's why I would want to know what other survivors are using, so everyone can have role. Some will have BT, someone can have totem hunter perk, someone bring Unbreakable. It is easy to say that with SWF, but as soloq you need Kindred, Bond and then fill all those roles, because you just don't know.
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Honestly, showing perks would help a ton of off-meta picks more than the band-aids, which makes it even better. It'll be super useful to declare Ace in the Hole, Inner Strength, For the People and more.
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