Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
A pass on Exhaustion perks.
Smash Hit
No changes are necessary to Smash Hit.
The best execution of high risk high reward; if you make a successful outplay at a pallet, you get a large reward.
Adrenaline
This perk is also in a good spot, since it's a massive reward in exchange for a stringent requirement (basically requiring you to win outright with just three perks).
That said, it could use a little QOL buff to help make team plays with it in solo queue.
When the last generator reaches 70% progress, Adrenaline gives its user a notification.
When only one generator remains, all players running Adrenaline gain an icon on their portrait visible to all other survivors.
Head On
This perk is, for the most part, completely fine.
I have no issue with its current effects. In fact, I want to expand on them a little bit to make team Head On plays more viable in solo queue.
Once Head On is primed and ready, the locker is indicated in yellow to all survivors.
Balanced Landing
A little bit problematic, but not the worst.
The fact that it's as situational as it is makes it inherently less of a problem than other Exhaustion perks, but the ability for survivors who are near a drop to use it as essentially a version of Sprint Burst that forces the killer to waste a lot of time before the speed boost (ie into a building or around a hill) makes it a pain in the ass.
Increased stagger reduction from 75% to 100%
Only triggers if you hold the Sprint button when you hit the ground
Balanced Landing duration decreased from 3 seconds to 1.5
If the killer attempts an attack or special attack within the initial effect duration, the speed boost duration is extended to 4 seconds
With this version of the perk, you get greatly reduced value from the perk if you don't use it to bait out an attack.
This means that once the killer knows you have Balanced Landing (so long as he remembers it) he can largely mitigate its effects by holding back his urge to swing at you as you land.
In exchange, the perk can now be held (potentially tricking the killer into thinking you don't have it), and it lasts much longer if you can actually pull it off.
Lithe
Essentially the same deal as Balanced Landing, but much less situational and used to simply hold W more often than Balanced Landing, making it a bit of a problem.
As such, it requires a bit of a more fundamental change.
Press the active ability button to initiate a Lithe Vault while approaching a window.
Lithe vaults are 50% faster than regular vaults and are followed by a shoulder roll that lowers your profile for 1 second.
If you use a Lithe vault to dodge an attack, break into a sprint at 150% your normal speed for 3 seconds.
Causes exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.
This basically means that you win close calls at window tiles, and that goes double for projectile killers.
If the killer sees Lithe coming and doesn't attack into it, the reward for this is mild; simply a vault speed boost.
If they swing into it, you get the current Lithe boost on top of the better vault and automatic projectile ducking.
Sprint Burst
The most basic exhaustion perk in the game.
Very strong, but it has some problems.
- Immobile killers and stealth killers are left with no real recourse against the perk
- Running Sprint Burst makes your initial positioning in a chase virtually irrelevant.
- The bane of solo survivors everywhere is a teammate trying to "save sprint burst" by walking (or worse, crouch walking) across the entire map.
The solution here is pretty simple; low risk, low reward.
Decreased Sprint Burst's effect duration from 3 seconds to 1.5
Decreased Sprint Burst's exhaustion duration from 60/50/40 seconds to 30/25/20 seconds.
With this change, Sprint Burst is now much easier to manage outside of chases, but the effect itself is now weaker (matching the effect of a post-hit speed boost).
It can still make up for minor lapses in positioning, but not nearly as much as the old SB.
In exchange, you can more or less rely on the perk always being available for use.
There's a bit of opportunity cost for using SB instead of a perk that gives more distance, but the low exhaustion timer and ease of use are great.
Dead hard
The most problematic exhaustion perk.
Have you found yourself in a situation where:
- You misjudged distance to a pallet/window?
- You tried to transition to a tile out of reach?
- You flat-out got outplayed at a tile?
- You got dead-ended by somebody like Trapper?
Press E and you're good. Get to that pallet, buy yourself an extra 30 seconds or so of chase.
3+ times per game. Per person. On potentially four people.
Yes, certain bad players (and bugs) can make it seem like this perk has counterplay, but when used (and functioning) properly is just doesn't.
This perk needs a full rework. The current version is not only bad by design, but is something the devs have clearly proved incapable of making work on the back end.
Vault over a pallet into a stunned killer to kick them into the face, extending their stun for an additional 2 seconds.
For 8 seconds afterward, your blood, scratches, and moans of pain are hidden from the killer.
Causes exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.
Similar to Smash Hit, but with some key differences.
Using Smash Hit will grant you an insane amount of distance, but doesn't necessarily cause the chase to stop.
Reworked Dead Hard doesn't give you that much in the way of distance, but is excellent for dropping chase, as using it places you behind the killer, gives you a head start, and removes all of their means of tracking you.
Comments
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I think Head On should probably have a lower CD compared to the other exhaustion perks but just slightly.
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Have you ever found yourself in a situation where:
- you didn’t know if there would be a pallet or not, giving the killer a guaranteed hit, but there was a window? just press Spacebar and use lithe.
- you are injured but instead of healing before repairing, you want to be greedy and finish the gen in the killer’s face? Just press W while holding shift and use Sprint Burst.
- A teammate was just hooked on a hill, so you farm them with no BT? Just press W, drop down and use Balanced Landing. You are sure to get away.
- Your teammate was hooked inside basement but instead of saving them you wanted to finish the generator right next to shack? Just press Spacebar (again) and use lithe, it will correct your lack of altruism and allow you to get the distance you didn’t have and get to the hook on time.
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Those are all pretty situational (Except SB). Problems, sure (Except the Lithe one, that just seems like a bad play followed by a wasted exhaustion perk), but not nearly as bad as Dead Hard.
"I am about to get downed" is something that happens several times in every game, and this is the situation where Dead Hard is stupidly strong.
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situational? Lmao how often do you see a gen in a dead zone in your matches? Or survivors trying to get greedy through various ways… while getting away aka correcting their “mistake”.
This isn’t exclusive to DH.
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There are already counters to exhaustion in this game but you just don't want to use them. If you are really getting frustrated by exhaustion perks then Blood Echo and Mindbreaker are your friend. Oh but of course you shouldn't have to change up your play style to meet others, that's too much work.
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Honestly I don't like any of the changes
Most of them are just make the perk more complicated and reward attentive killers / punish new players who don't know what they are going against or how to use them
On top of that
Quality of life for an extremely strong perk / effect isn't quality of life when it negates the weaknesses of the perk and as the weaknesses of adrenaline stem from lack of communication buffing the perk to tell all survivors you have it and tell you that the last gen is nearing completion is just a buff to a strong perk that doesn't need it
Head on one is fine tho
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I'm not sure how you think Adrenaline is at all okay. The "risk" is minimal and the reward is enormous and comes from genrushing. Stay injured, slam gens, and have a perk undo all of the risk. What's that? Killer's trying to snowball? Get ######### noob, everyone's healthy and the slug picked themselves up.
Not to mention the fact that there's no risk for any exhaustion perk except perhaps Head On. Smash Hit? Camp the pallet and get a double speed boost. Adrenaline? Rush gens and predrop pallets. Balanced Landing? Free distance, minimal thought. Lithe? Same. Sprint Burst? 99ing takes a trial to learn. Dead Hard? Outplay with a button press.
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I've used both and they both suck because the game isn't even balanced around Exhaustion. Even when they finally effect survivors in any meaningful way, the survivor just plays a little safer and you wasted 1-2 perk slots.
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Think I’d genuinely quit playing if these changes were made lol
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Mindbreaker is only decent against Sprint Burst while Blood Echo only consistently works on Plague and Legion.
I would happily use a perk slot to combat exhaustion perks,but there is no decent anti exhaustion perk out there
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If you refuse to play a game where you aren't handed a free +3 health states per trial, good riddance.
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If a killer doesn't down and hook Survivors who are staying injured to complete their objective (which is the optimal Survivor play even without Adrenaline), the health boost from Adrenaline doesn't "undo all of the risk". Just because the killer failed to take advantage of the opportunities that were given to them doesn't mean that the opportunity wasn't there, or that the risk for the survivors wasn't there.
Adrenaline's reward is a health state and a speed boost, both of which are meaningless if you're not downed, injured or in a chase. In fact, if you're not any of those things, the perk actively hurts you by restarting your Exhaustion. Adrenaline is one of the healthiest perks in the game, OP was right to see that it doesn't really need any serious changes.
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Your changes would be absolutely horrendous to the meta. Killers constantly complain about lack of variety in survivor perks. Well, if exhaustion perks are nerfed, say hello to everyone running BT Spine chill Iron Will and DS.
Stop advocating for ruining fun perks because you aren’t playing efficiently, or using any perks that counter exhaustion perks.
I’m sorry but I can’t take any post seriously asking for nerfs to balanced and lithe, but none for killer perks that are much stronger. Really unhealthy mindset
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What opportunities? Trials last 4 minutes. There's no "opportunities" there, just a perk covering people's arses. People are injured? Who cares, they're off slamming the last 2 gens, if you get close they're just going to take off early and prethrow every pallet, same as what's been happening for the last 2 minutes.
When your average trial is that short, there's no time to exploit any "opportunities". It's just survivors slamming gens and getting a free heal just in case you might have gotten a late-game snowball, something that used to happen a lot back when people weren't using Adrenaline.
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How come "just do bones" isn't a solution against NOED, and wasn't a solution against old Undying...but somehow "run blood echo" is a solution against exhaustion?
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I say "run Blood Echo" because every killer says either "do bones" or "run small game". It's the exact same stupid argument but if you can't beat em then join em.
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Exhastion perks are not "fun". They are boring free wins.
SB, Lithe, and BL allow you to hold W and buy time without having to interact with the killer at all.
Dead Hard allows you to just say "no" when you die, making tile play (the only actual fun thing in this game) meaningless.
Wow. So "fun".
Also, you're simply a fool if you think nerfing Exhaustion perks would reduce perk diversity.
if you knock the S+ tier perks to be on par with the S and A tier perks, that will always increase perk diversity.
If these changes result in 75% of players who currently run Dead Hard every match because they're too bad to win without it swapping it out for another perk, they're not gonna all choose the same perk. We're going to see more Q&Q, Deception, Smash Hit, Saboteur, Head On, Lucky Break, Breakout, Deliverance, Adrenaline, and Unbreakable.
You know, the actually fun perks. Oh, and it's not like any of these reworked exhaustion perks are bad; they're just actually balanced on the same level as other perks.
You sound like the kind of person who would quit a D&D campaign if they weren't allowed to play as the protagonist of a power fantasy harem anime.
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You mean Blood Echo only working on injured survivors basically limiting it to Plague and Legion? Such a great counter that lasts for one chase.
Do I even have to explain how bad Mindbreaker is?
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I mean, at their core they aren't "stupid arguments".
The issue with "just run blood echo" is, it's very situational. "Just do bones" just works 100% of the time.
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So you want to nerf balanced landing? The worst exhaustion perk other than headon?
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Balanced Landing is not a bad perk in the slightest.
It's somewhat situational, so it's usually worse than Dead Hard, SB, and Lithe, but considering how patently absurd the power levels of those perks are that doesn't say much.
This would be like saying "Why would you want to nerf Instasaw Billy? He's worse than Nurse and Spirit."
If you're on a flat map it's not great, but if you're on/near a hill (pretty common, since hooks/gens spawn there often) or a two story building (which is similarly common) it's super powerful.
It...
- Gives large amounts of distance for the survivor without needing to interact with the killer
- Forces the killer to go far out of their way to burn it (going around to the climbable side of a hill) wasting a lot of time.
- Makes tiles that are ordinarily death traps (Hills, spawns of Chapel without a window next to the gen) into complete safe zones.
Compared to the absurdity that is Dead Hard it's not great.
Compared to Unbreakable, DS, or Deliverance, it's out of line.
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Why would you bake a “dodge a hit” condition into two perk reworks in a game where most of the player base constantly complains about hits feeling unfair? Lol.
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The dodge conditions are way too penalizing and how would that even work? How close does the Killer have to be? How (likely) broken is that going to be with latency hits? Sounds like you're trying to cram DH's dodge into other perks and punish the surv if it doesn't work. Which dodging with DH is already a coin toss on it's own.
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Can I pass on your pass?
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We don't need to define that.
BHVR literally already has code for that, which they use for achievements.
If the killer attacks while near you, and he doesn't hit you, you dodged it.
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No "just do bones" does not work 100% of the time in fact it works almost never. I constantly get into games where it's so close that there's no way 3 other random guys can do 5 totems with no communication and no totem counter. It would waste so much time to the point where close games would end up in a killer win because you spent the entirety of the game just doing totems which you have no idea if the killer even has NOED or not. It's all based on this chance that they have NOED and even then it's extremely unreasonable to have to do every single totem with randoms.
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Cannot really believe that someone made Balanced Landing even worse.
In general, why should an Exhaustion Perk-Overhaul be that complicated? DBD is a super-easy game overall, nothing is too complicated in this game. So why should things be that complicated?
Let alone that you only keep Smash Hit as it is, which is most likely the weakest Exhaustion Perk.
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Lithe needs more than that. I've been robbed of way too many hits because Lithe was there to completely erase a bad vault. It needs some serious changes.
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Hit Reg is gonna make so many of the changes either completely moot or unmanageable for killers depending on how the server's feeling that day.
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It sounds like you're calling everyone that uses dead hard bad. Truth is, the player is actually good for using META perks. They may still suck at the game, but they've done "good" things for the team by running BT, DS, Unbreakable, Adrenaline, Dead Hard, etc.
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I just want the passive stagger reduction of balanced landing back
So tired of breaking my Ackles from a 6 inch drop
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Once infinites are quite literally destroyed, we may see that change reverted.
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I hope so I'd settle for a 25% reduction passive and ditch all the other stuff on the perk. Falling just feels bad man
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Honestly, the speed boost is just a bonus. Give me stagger reduction man. I do like the reduced grunts from falling though. Maybe that could be a bonus effect.
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Nerfing DS didn’t improve perk variety, people just used IW, SC, BT, etc more. Not that I think DS shouldn’t have been nerfed FYI
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"Nerfing DS didn't improve perk variety, people just replaced it with a bunch of other perks"
...that's what perk variety is.
Nerfing DS took the survivor meta from "DS, Unbreakable, Exhaustion, and a Flex" to "Exhaustion and three flexes".
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No!! You can't reduce the survivor toolkit to, just stand there so the killer can hit you. They have to have some means of escaping and something interesting to use....this is a game for all 5 players, your proposals would gut the viable options.
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Yes, because without Dead Hard survivors are just so helpless.
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Does not address the issue of latency and how that would affect the perks.
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So you're telling me if you destroy all 5 totems, the killer will still have NOED?
Gotcha. That must be a new bug.
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So you're telling me that if you counter Dead Hard the survivors can still use Dead Hard?
Gotcha. That must be a new bug.
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Yes, they can, because there is no hard counter to Dead Hard.
- Mindbreaker and Huntress Venom are short enough that they can be walked off mid-chase.
- Blood Echo requires (1) you to hook somebody and (2) for others to be injured. If the person you're trying to hook has Dead Hard, Blood Echo won't stop it. If other people keep themselves healed, Blood Echo does nothing to them.
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To add to that - Dead Hard requires you to be hit. It's a reward for failure.
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They don't need to touch a single exhaustion perk, you just need to stop blaming perks when you lose a chase
The recent updates have turned the maps into massive dead zones interspersed with smaller loops, exhaustion perks just help to close the distance between them once per chase
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That is not what perk variety is. Perk variety is when there are enough viable options to see players use a large volume of different perks. I’d say survivors are closer to this, as they are generally much more willing to have a meme/fun perk on than killers.
Perk variety is achieved by buffing, not nerfing.
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It should be fine to add Drops next to Top-Floor Windows. Or make those into open doorways. E.g. the Myers-House would be fine with there would be no Windows on the Top Floor, but doorways (and the Window downstairs should be blocked all the time, but this is another story). Because with this, the Killer will not lose time while vaulting and the Survivor still gets to use the Stagger Reduction.
I was a big fan of Balanced Landing until the change, mostly because it just felt better with the Stagger Reduction. But now I am used to the Stagger, so it is fine for me, but when they first changed it and I ditched BL, it felt really clumsy when you drop and get the stagger.
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Perks aren't designed to have counters, that's a stupid argument. Open Handed, Plunder's Instinct, Lithe, Balanced Landing, Tinkerer, etc, etc.
Dead Hard is not a "reward for failure", that's another absurd argument. You can use it while injured is much different than needing to be hit to use it. No Mither and For the People want a word with you.
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5 gens got done in 3 mins, thats "rewarding".
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Not true.
If a perk is so good that it outclasses every other option, nerfing it will increase perk diversity, because some people will stop using it and replace it with something else.
Again... nerfing DS had this effect, freeing up two perk slots in every survivor's build that previously had to be used for DS Unbreakable, tremendously increasing perk diversity.
Less Dead Hard, SB, Lithe.
More Hope, Smash Hit, We'll Make It, Flashbang.
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