HOW TO STOP THE BABYSITTING KILLERS

Also Hex Devour Hope rewards killers who don't camp.

Do gens or use borrow time

So killer should go blind for looking at the hook.

Here comes the Trapper! Gonna put you in your crib!

So, I'll just say I'm a killer main to start, so its not like some self serving ideology.

Maybe I wasn't clear, or maybe im confused by what you guys mean. What I was suggesting for hook states is that there is 60 seconds you can be on the hook before you reach the next hook stage. The suggestion is if the killer is within ~6 meters of the hook, the survivor that's on it simply has the hook meter go down at half the rate. The only real punishment to the killer is that if he stands right in front of the hook, it will take longer to "secure the kill" and give survivors more time to work gens.

I guess I see a bit of a drawback for the less campy killers if they hook and immediately have multiple survivors rush to unhook. "The bait the unhook to try to make you swing" type situation would last twice as long, but those are honestly pretty rare and I have never seen that situation go on more than 30 seconds. But if that's the problem, then what if the hook timer goes down as normal if an unhooked survivor is within ~12 meters? Otherwise, what's the issue?

@BrokenSouI buddy, if emblem point loss for hook camping would put you in purple or green ranks from red ranks, you very well may not belong in the red ranks. Sure, sometimes you gotta camp in those clutch moments, but it doesn't sound like that's what you're talking about

But... If the killer chases the survivor around the hook within 12 meters, its back to the normal hook meter. If the killer gets pulled outside of his 6 meter range, normal hook progression.

If the 2 rescuing survs are so far away in opposite directions, it doesn't sound like they're doing gens so technically you are wasting 3 survivors times for the price of 1. Sure, one with could do a gen, but that's a pretty fair trade off for securing a kill.

it wouldn't be hard for the killer to proxy camp 7 meters away to get normal hook state progression back while the 2 rescuers try to bait him. If a survivor starts running at the hook, you can move to intercept once they are within 12 meters which will certainly leave plenty of time to secure a grab.

I really don't understand your argument, because it seems to ignore the 12 meter survivor range aspect I mentioned. Which doesn't really actually change much about how camping works, but it would at least discourage actual face camping. Its more of a "camping killers work the same, but now they won't be RIGHT in your face. Can we stop complaining about camping now?" Kind of suggestion

I am more talking about forcing the killer to do other things, not just YOU doing other things.

People imagine the killer just sitting on the person at hook no matter what, but that is fairly rare. Most killers are camping because something indicated to them your not on gens (ex: You all were visible when they got the down, and thus have a VERY good reason to expect someone is waiting near the hook).

If you leave and do gens, it isn't just denying the killer the ability to down you. It makes it far more likely you can actually unhook the survivor.

It is IMPERATIVE you spread out as survivors and not let the killer pressure more than one survivor at a time. Good killers understand pressuring a lone survivor the whole game is a guaranteed loss and won't do it. If the killer REFUSES to leave hook, force them to depip and get your safety pip. You remain in your rank (save the guy who got nabbed early, but that is only 1/4th your group if your a group or doesn't affect YOU if your solo) and they derank, meaning the problem 'self corrects.'

...As long as your not consistently getting caught first that is. If you are, that means your not really... good enough to have an opinion about what the killer is doing. Not in a 'get good' scrub way, but in the sense that if you are consistently losing chases early to be the first down (because in this hypothetical the killer is going to 'policy camp' the first person and thus you will only get hook camped if your the worst survivor in the lobby) you actually deserve to depip, because your not at your correct rank and your peers are out preforming you.

Frankly this is a problem that doesn't really exist at the 15s or below, which is super trivial to reach because killers at rank 20-15 are total potatos and you could loop them for 5 gens easily to get a pip even if they DO camp you with basic loop knowledge. Once you get to the 15s killers almost always are camping because you are forcing them to be territorial, or they will back down very quick if they try to 'force camp.'

The way DBD's game design works makes it so the correct response to a camp literally can't be you trying to unhook and getting the unhook. The entire gameplay loop is "Killer denies area and applies pressure locally, survivors cannot apply pressure near the killer but have global presence to pressure killer any time they are not near them." The ENTIRE interaction between survivors and killers requires the killer to be able to deny you the ability to do any objective they are defending. It has to work that way. It may not be fun to be camped out, but it also isn't fun to say... get unga-bunga'd and taken from 100 to 0 by E-Hondo in Street fighter because you got corner combo'd.

Games aren't about making literally ever scenario and interaction fun and empowering for you, that doesn't work. Games need high and low points and different gamestates which require different responses and have different sides holding different amounts of power, or else the game doesn't function. There need to be situations where if you enter them you almost certainly lose, or can't accomplish specific things no matter how good you are: You shouldn't win a long range 1v1 vs an AWPer with dualies in counter-strike unless the AWPer is so low skill they literally can't play the game. You can be the best Counter-Strike player and you can and SHOULD lose in that matchup for different weapons and their advantages to mean something.

Likewise, in DBD, the fact the killer can block rescues is important to the overall loop of the game. There was a time where camping legitimately didn't work due to the absurd strength of old BT that made it essentially impossible for the killer to get any value off hook, combined with the strength of vacuum pallets meaning camping out a kill is as good as just starting a new chase because the value of that initial hit was so low. Survivors quit the game because of how ######### boring it was. The killer being able to punish you for being near them recklessly is literally the only tension in the game. Do not argue for its removal or the game will die.

And, again, it is really trivial to counter it. Killer streamers don't camp unless the survivors clearly are intent on feeding the camper, and survivor streamers basically don't get camped out unless they piss the killer off so much they are willing to throw the game over it. It is clearly possible to defeat camping via skill, and is so easy that it is defacto assumed in 'high level play' you will not be camping unless given a good reason to do so otherwise. So there really is no need to address it besides this idea that it isn't fun to be camped, which is... kinda true but its also not fun for the entire game to fall apart and die so lets take the lesser of two evils and accept that every gameplay loop has low points where you get wrecked and just need to take it like an adult.

Camping complaints were also less of an issue when SWF didn't exist, because being eliminated had far less cost.

Of course there is also the problem of Q times, and survivor queues being very long, but I guarentee you destroying core mechanic of killers as having the absolute power to shut down any action done in their face by a survivor not attempting to evade them will not help with your problems of dying being frustrating even in solo-Q now because it takes a long time to get a match and your disappointed it lasted only 3 minutes because you don't know how to not be first chase and aren't good enough at looping to make being the first chase fun.

Its a common issue in game design where attempted fixes to behavior caused by core systems through tertiary systems lead to unintended consequences that encourage things more. For example, during the old BT days, camping was WORSE because you HAD to be within 5 meters to get the grab to get anything off the hook. So either you facecamped or you tried to go for a 12 hook game. Ironically, strong anti-camping tools just make killers want to camp HARDER. And if the tool is too strong it just creates a slug meta (because slugging low key is more powerful a tool in DBD in terms of delaying survivors and making them expend more effort on rescues than hooks) like we had in 2017 where it was slug nurse as far as the eye could see.

The changes needed to support removing camping as a viable defensive strategy in killers in scenarios where you are actually going for the unhook and thus justify the camping behavior would need to be so pervasive that DBD would not resemble itself anymore. Like... it was literally a core design philosophy of Deathgarden to remove camping and swift player elimination as a key strategy for the killer... and Deathgarden SUCKED for this because it removes all tension from the game to allow survivors to treat hook states as a known, secure resource. The game was super braindead because the runners in that game had no reason to fear interaction with the hunter and it was boring for them, while hunter was frustrating because smart play was actively punished.

Gens plus borrowed time is your answer to campers never do an unsafe rescue unless the gates are powered

How about the survivor who is hooked gets points if the killer is within a certain range and gen progress is done because they're technically helping because the killer won't leave.

Did you try to Boop at 5 gens or closer to end game?

Also yea some Piggies don’t appreciate boops but I always do.