Killers have too much control over both survivor and killer outcome.
Let me make one thing clear from the start. I am not meaning if they live or die. I mean with regards to controlling the survivors ability to get blood points and earn pips.
For survivors to get get blood points and emblems there are 1/2 of the things needed can be 100% blocked by the killers actions, Benevolence/Altruism and Evasive/Boldness. If the killer fails at their job in hitting and hooking survivors they have no way of getting Benevolence/Altruism. If the killer refuses to chase a specific survivor they cannot get Evasive/Boldness points.
The only things survivors can focus on and get some points for regardless of the killers behavior are Light Bringer/Objectives and Survival/Unbroken, but these are still heavily dependent on the killers play style. Lightbringer/Objectives are limited on the map if the killer doesn't focus on making gens regress because there is only so much a survivor can do with objectives. And with survival blood points the max a survivor can git without the killer doing something is 5000 instead of the 8000.
This puts survivors in a circumstance where they are limited in what they can gain by the killers actions, and placed in situations where regardless of skill they are in a no win situation. This is especially true when it comes to 3 behaviors that survivors frequently complain about: tunneling, camping, and slugging. As strategies and game mechanics I have 0 issues with these tactics. They have their place and often times if a killer is behind it is their only way to have a chance of getting maybe even a 1K. But these tactics remove the ability for the survivor being camped, slugged or tunneled from enjoying the game, and then again when it comes from BP and Emblems.
I honestly don't have an issue with the killers BP or emblem system but I think the survivors one is too dependent on both luck and the killers actions. Personally I think survivors should be judged mainly as a team all members get the same emblems and the same go for blood points to a point (since surviving gives 5000 id say 5000 per category) with an individual bonus for specific actions. This wouldn't change play style it just would mean that if you are the survivor who gets tunneled or camped or used as bait you don't get double punished. The only gameplay I think it would change is the extremely selfish gameplay which is meant to be discouraged anyway
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Survivors control the killers points as well. If a team just slams gens and holds W, the killer gets no points even if they win. Their gatekeeper emblem is completely out of their control, as are the other three because they rely on survivors actually doing things instead of just being meta slaves. Good luck getting much devious or hunter in that situation. Even sacrifice depends on the survivors doing poorly to farm.
It's a dumb system, but it cuts both ways.
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I'm not sure of any other way for it to go, since killers need survivors to get hooks and hits as well. It's a mutually beneficial thing.
Obviously it can be impossible against killers that break those systems though, like trying to heal against Plague or unhook against Executioner.
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The difference is the survivors control the killers points in playing the game well. where the killer controls the survivors in playing poorly. If survivors dont do a single gen the killer gets irri gatekeepers. if the killer doesnt injure the survivors the survivors get nothing with benevolence. as for devious using their power gets them devious. Freddy for instance could just make more blood pools. Hunter gives points for chasing or hitting survivors. They actually get more points the shorter the chase is so an afk survivor is worth the max amount of points.
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I am not suggesting not rewarding survivors for saving and healing people. I am suggesting not punishing them for not being able to. If the survivors are super-skilled and completely avoid the killer without sacrificing an individual that's their job, but an entire set of bloodpoints require letting the other survivors get hooked and hit.
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You need to study the emblem system and DbD gameplay a little more.
Firstly, AFK survivors can't start chases, meaning they're worth no points. Secondly, you're not skilled or playing well by holding W. Thirdly, a small handful of killers being able to, over the course of 20 minutes, solo-farm devious points doesn't mean killers in general can get much devious from uninteractive survivors. Fourth, have you ever gone against baby survivors? You get no points. The game's over in minutes, only without anything actually happening.
Edit: also, we're not talking about farming, so that devious comment I made is irrelevant.
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Okay going through killer emblems 1 by 1
Gatekeeper: # points = # of gens * # of min + 10 points for exit gates remaining closes at end of trial. ie 7 min game where 3 min 5 gens remain 2 min 4 gens remain and 2 min 3 gens remain gives the killer 29 points plus and addition 10 if the exit gates didnt open totalling 39 points. Min needed for Irri 35.
Devout- 2 points per kill/disconnect by any means except bleed out 1 point for hooking all survivors at least once and 1 for hooking 9 times so Survivors can actively prevent you from getting the point for 9 times by leaving someone on the hook stopping them from being able to get a 2nd or 3rd hook. I will give you that.
Malicious- 1 point for each hit +2 for each hook stage -1 for each state healed -1 for survivor escape from grasp
Chase- based on hitting survivors and having short chases. and if I am not mistaken a chase begins when you either a) are running after a survivor or b) hit the survivor since you get max points for 0-15 seconds. If the survivors never end up unhooking or healing anyone this one can be limiting to it looks like bronze maybe silver. It looks a bit unclear to me.
So yes survivors never unhooking someone can limit the killer possibilites from 16/16 to 12-13/16 but that basically requires 3 afk survivors. A killer however can drop it from surivivor 64/64 to 25-30/64 depending on if the killer brought hex totems. With the exception of Nemesis who would give survivors a way to injure themselves and thus heal themselves.
As for Bloodpoints.
Brutality- can be limited by because number of times available to hit before you down them
Deviousness- So killers get this just for survivor bleeding plus their abilities plus a bonus for noone escaping. Each killer is different. In addition every killer can utilize their power without the survivors doing anything.
Hunter- there is a limit to how much you can get but you will get points for survivor found. because you do want chases to last a little longer. but you can still get at least 1/2 the blood points with all afks
Sacrafice - is limited if the survivors dont unhook people. but again can still get over 1/2 with full afks.
So I stand by my point that its way too reliant of the killer being effective. The survivors actions might make it so the killer isnt able to get full points but it requires alot of lack of effort of ALL survivors.
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I know what you mean. I'm just saying that the killer loses out by not doing it either, so both sides lose out in the end. If the killer doesn't initiate it, or if they're built to cause issues with it, then obviously that blows. But I like the give and take aspect of it. I'd say if anything, they should streamline the emblems a bit so that the give and take is still there but we don't lose out as much by being put in that predicament.
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Killer going against bad survivors -
Gatekeeper will be maxed, just as Unbroken will be for survivors (never getting downed means max emblem).
Malicious = 8 points for the hits, not sure how it counts specific hook States becuase a trial full of 1-hook kills gets you silver. That emblem is a bit broken.
Chaser - basically nothing here. Hits don't start chases, so a single afk person is worth a grand total of nothing. Combine that with the fact that you're supposed go have about 10 short chases instead of 3-4 average ones (W, remember?) and you're absolutely screwed. If everyone is afk you can actually get 0 chaser.
Devout - 9 points, assuming everyone dies. 6 points if someone gets hatch.
And an average of about 10k BP. This I know from experience, because I got aught in the rank reset bug twice in a row.
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Let me put it this way. There are 5 players.
1/5 player has the ability to depip everyone by not playing
If a survivor is downed once, the killer has the ability to say "this is your death hook you dont get to play."
The ability of the Killer to control the end outcome despite the survivors ability, as one player, far exceeds the amount of control that the 4 survivors together have over the killer.
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I think instead of looking at it as 1 out of 5 players, you should look at it as one team out of two. While one team only has one member it's still one side verse another. If your team doesn't want to save their teammate on a hook because of the other side camping that's fine. Cut your losses and try to salvage as much as you can.
Also, this is just a personal position so take it with a grain of salt, but pips don't matter. Rank doesn't matter. You're either playing with brain-dead nitwits on the lower ranks or you're sweating your giblets off in the higher ranks. Just relax and realize, it's just a game, but it's okay to be frustrated because of it.
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I think its best to think of it as two groups instead of individual players. 1 survivors doesnt equal the killer but all 4 survivors is equal to the killer.
In all cases the killer should absolutely overpower just 1 survivor since they arent equal in terms of power. I get not being able to play that specific game sucks but the survivor team should be responsible for making sure they can play the game, not the killer.
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The entity and emblem system reward those that engage in the full scale of the game, this goes for killers and survivors. If you don't engage with the killer it isn't them denying you points it is you rushing to escape. Both sides are reliant on the other to make progress and action. Additionally you can do totems to gain additional points and all that jazz if you refuse to engage with a killer.
Your argument is if the killer is bad then it is harder to engage with them for points? No if they are bad it is easier, just take the time and do it! Give them a free hit, run them and once they give up go heal and repeat... It are killers that are reliant on survivors more, if they are really good at what they do... there is nothing you can do to get more hooks, hits, etc. If you want to use the other party to maximize your own ability to pip and gain bloodpoints it really is significantly easier if they aren't good, goes both ways!
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