http://dbd.game/killswitch
Killers should be more punished for messing up/less punished for playing well - with some exception.
This is just more of a ranty point of view i wanted to get out there, about skill based killers/killers with higher skill caps. Where i feel like some killers have detrimental caps that stop them from excelling, when there supposed to be in place to stop them going too far. ie they have caps or cooldowns, that stop them from just being too powerful, but those seem to be detrimental even when played perfectly. This is far less about buffs and nerfs, and more about punishing killers less for what they should be doing with their powers.
Blight at the moment seems to be a near perfect form and function, and he's the most rewarding and fun killer for me to play for this reason. im punished if i slam for too long, or miss a hit, but hitting someone gives me the default cooldown for a hit, whilst retaining my vision. the cooldowns are all the same for missed hits, but your rewarded for swinging/attempting, by not having your vision altered. he also has a skill cap of techniques that can be preformed with him that lift his skill cap up, make him feel very rewarding to play well, but also punish you if you missplay. the reverse is true of current hillbilly as an example
So lets take the Hillbilly for example. getting downs with his chainsaw can be rough at times, and missing hits/revving endlessly should be punished - that was the main intent behind adding overheat to him as a mechanic. it was to stop him infinitely revving around a pallet or short wall, and getting an instant down off, or infinitely camping. - - - But its in place when he does well too. you get a few chainsaws off, some hits and then you have to stop using it for a while, ultimately capping out his ability to do anything.
-----------------------
Simple solution to hillbilly would be that successful hits with the chainsaw lower his overheat by a small amount. Literally rewards him for playing well. (ie he should have less of a detriment to actively getting downs/succeeding as a killer) But if he continues to play poorly, or go across the map covering large distances, his overheat builds up.
-----------------------
On the reverse side... some killers are punished for paying incorrectly to harshly, or carry the downsides of their regular powers into their punishment.
Ie huntress, trickster (of whom i don't neccessiarly think need buffs or nerfs) (and to a lesser extent deathslinger.) - when your out of hatchets/knives, you have no power. your essentially a slower killer, and have to treck back to a locker to refill, which is also slower then checking a locker normally as any killer. But you have to do this literally every match minimum, due to the need for refills to actually functionally use your power, as you can't chase like a normal killer without it.
-------------------
Simple solution for these killers whom can "lose their power" even if their successful with it, is to simply give them the normal speed of a killer when their completely out of their power. Ie for every hatchet under 5 that huntress has, she moves 1% faster up until 115% movement speed at 0 hatchets. make her ultra rare restore a hatchet on a successful hit. For trickster, simply make it every 8 knives removed from 44 till zero gives him a 1% movement speed buff, or give him the full 5% when out of knives.
---------------------
The nurse is also probably the heaviest contender for this in the game. she's punished for doing well, and playing poorly. But she also has the highest skill cap in the game. She's also one of the least played killers in the game at the moment for this reason, ie her being incredibly hard to play and incredibly punished for all actions she takes.
Now i don't think nurse needs any buffs, furthest from it. shes the closest thing to blight that there is in terms of form and function. But like how blight had his double fatigue removed, and had it made linear (so that all fatigues/attack animations have similar animation downsides) i feel that she should be made to feel more functionally similar to this gold standard - ie remove double fatigue, but make it the same effective duration. she misses, but isn't cursed to look at the ground endlessly. she gets a hit woo! no double fatigue, but she still recovers at the same rate whilst looking around
---------------------
ie linerarly i feel nurse should get the post release blight treatment, where her fatigues are treated differently if she swings and misses/hits/double blinks/single blinks/etc. Single fatigue. same duration, but the visual cues and player speed are altered, whilst also allowing the rewarding nature of hits to actually come into play. to counter this "buff to nurse players" as visual tracking is very important, single blinks could be buffed on their recharge, but double blinks could be nerfed slightly (rewarding singular blinks more then blinking twice and readjusting for a miss.)
----------------------
Ghostface feels punished alongside myers, though lets focus on ghostface for now. at the moment, the best possible addons to run on him are his charge speed addons. and thats because the duration for being broken out of stealth (which the player ultimately HAS to do in order to attack,) is a massive 30s. Thats incredibly punishing for just attacking someone! he can no longer use his power for 30s even if he gets a sneaky hit, not to mention if he's just broken out by someone looking at him.
Simple solution would just be to lower his power cooldown upon a successful hit (ie to say 16s) and to nerf his addons. this would reward him for playing correctly, getting hits, getting grabs, but would actually have him be punished for being broken out and not just have it be the same cooldown for something he's actively forced to do.
-----------------------
Myers is actively one of the most punished killers for playing correctly. alongside legion. Legion has a gigantic 4s stun everytime he exits his power, even if he uses it and gets hits off! and myers is punished by simply existing in a match due to having a slower build up then the closest charecter too him - the oni. Early game myers suffers so much expecially with anti stealth perks, or general awareness, and legion is forced into having giant stuns even if he plays well. Myers as well has a lock on the amount of stalk he can get. this is incredibly punishing in the late game! he can actually not have a power in the late game if you kill off an unstalked player early by some means, meaning he plays completely as a 115% killer with no power, and a slightly smaller terror radius.
- make myers 115% without mirror addon in tier 1. this is simply to punish him less starting out the match, and allow him to chase like a normal killer. because being forced to stalk up until a minimum of 6s to play normally, or a maximum of 60 (not usually hittable in a normal game, but you can prolong it to about 30s, by just staying an avg of 20m away meaning the myers has to get incredibly close which isn't always feasible, expecially with objects in the way that can outright obscure stalking.)
- Give myers the ability to stalk multiple people at once back. This will punish people sticking together early on. where a killer should also be most dangerous, whereas he's artificially punished by the system for playing well and sneaking up on multiple survivors.
- Make myers stalk regenerate on players outside of a 32m radius. if left alone, he can then later tier up on them, much like ghostface can remark an individual survivor.
- Make legion be less stunned when he hits someone affected by killer instinct (ie every player over 1) This would allow him to lower his stun time, if he plays correctly and gets many hits, and allow him to chase after the final survivor he hits rather then giving them a sprint burst and a 4s stun. By the time the 4s stun is over, their sprint burst/plus distance has carried them off into the abyss. His power is literally a reverse stbfl, but it gives you a speed boost to hit a large amount of people in a small amount of time.
-------------------
And finally trapper. oh boy is he punished for doing exactly what he should do. if he goes across the map to get a trap and place it due to his limited supply, a generator pops. he places a trap in chase, the survivor simply runs away. he fake places it, then he has to chase the loop like normal unless the survivor falls for the bait. He is an incredibly tactical killer, that requires massive skill and gameknowledge. But he's punished for gathering his power. its akin to a huntress having to reload after every hatchet, but the reload points are located on the furthest points of the map, sometimes even outside of loops. Sure they down like iri head in a way, their practically an instant down if someones leg snaps into them if their next to you. but they can be exceptionally hard to gather at times or even place/replace without a bag addon. Trapper suffers incredibly from time efficency, and even if he's playing at the best of his ability, he can effectively have no power due to map spawns, rng, or just simply having no time to do what he needs to.
------
Literally the only real thing that trapper needs, so that he can be far less punished for playing well, is putting his traps closer to the centre of the map. we don't want them spawning out in a z wall, near absolutely no gens, that the killer will never ever want to check over, due to it being a complete waste of time! Traps should spawn within a radius around generators and powerful loops. - this alone would marginally increase time efficency, by allowing him to go to the places he would normally go, and gather traps/pick them up aside.
also give the trapper the ability to hold a single extra trap basekit. this literally physically doubles his time efficency, rather then being forced to move between 3 seperate locations to set down two traps, he only has to move between two to even one.
------
In conclusion, i think a lot of killers are punished for using their powers correctly or gathering their powers, and that these gameplay scenarios just feel rather underwhelming. hillbilly is punished for chainsawing correctly. Nurse is punished with double visual fatigue upon getting a successful hit (weapon swing, and then an actual blink fatigue where i feel it should just be swing and wipe). Huntress and trickster being unable to chase normally, when out of ammo, and trucking back to lockers to reload, both slower then a normal killer, or being forced to chase slower then a normal killer but without a power. Myers is punished for stalking upon multiple people at once, and is punished for killing someone he hasn't stalked much early by having no more stalk for the match, effectively removing his power if he plays well. myers is also punished early, being unable to play like a regular killer, being forced to stalk which might not be optimal due to loops or distance. Legion is forced to tank a 4s stun, no matter how many successful hits he gets off within a chase. ghostface loses his power upon a successful hit, and is forced to recharge it at the same rate as if he was broken out by a survivor. And trapper is severly punished through time efficency, if he wants to use his power, he has to go out of his way to on some maps, to even obtain it, let alone get to a point he can use it.
Comments
-
This is an interesting idea, I feel like some of these would be a nice buff to some killers. Huntress definitely seems interesting, if not absolutely terrifying. But, I think her ultra rare that makes her 115% killer should do something else.
The item is a leg brace of sorts, so maybe after she uses all her hatchets she would gain the haste status for 15 - 20 seconds.
But, how would it work with iridescent head? Would she be moving at a constant 114%? Maybe you already stated that and I missed it by accident
0 -
I think that punishing for playing bad is not necessary. You're already down no need to kick you further.
Playing well shouldn't be rewarded any more than what you got for playing well. That's just begging to go into snowball territory. Hitting a survivor is its own reward.
3 -
I thought about it a bit more and I agree with you.
Plus, sometimes you'll go against a really strong team and the punishments would be too taxing
0 -
I tend to like most of your ideas, especially when it comes to cooldowns. I also like nurse not having to look down but still having a long fatigue. I do think certain killers are punished very badly sometimes for using their powers, even when they so appropriately, legion and ghostface (with no add-ons) are great examples. However, I tend to disagree with your opinions on the ranged killers.
I think the ranged killers do need some kind of increased movement that could come when their power is gone, but this would need to come with a slight nerf to chase potential as well for balance.
I agree with most of your changes for myers except making his tier 1 115; this is to much with no terror radius and would make him very lethal even in tier 1. I think allowing him to stalk without caps and stalk multiple people would be great though. Also, he probably needs a buff to his tier 3 so it is even deadlier and more on par with oni's transformation cause right now he is outclassed.
Another killer you did not mention is plague. If she plays well and forces survivors to cleanse then she can use corrupt, but corrupt comes with that really annoying music/sound effects that make it impossible to hear anything else. Removing these noises or dramatically decreasing their volume would be a nice QOL change for her. Also, survivors can force her into her power and remove all of her active pools if they cleanse at all of them. I would like to see this change to maybe remove only the newly cleansed pool and 1 additional 1 to really benefit the plague for playing well and punish survivors for playing badly.
1 -
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Nemesis of all killers. He gives the Survivors 2 speed boosts if he hits them with his power(once for initial infection and once for a hit), extending chase by a lot
0 -
Nemesis is also punished for using his power correctly (free sprint burst) and so is Victor with his 5 second stun for a down and a 3 second stun for a miss, it should be the other way around
0 -
I think theres a slight disconnect here - to clarify, i mean playing badly in terms of "misplaying" should be punished by the game (ie backreving infinitely as a hillbilly should generate overheat and kick you out of it to stop you doing so, expecially in front of a hook)
But in terms of actual gameplay playing badly in order to compensate for an ability should not be punished ie chasing without hatchets as huntress. at that point you don't have a power, either you've used it all up successfully, or missed shots, either way you have to reload. But until then your literally a weaker killer.
I'm not saying someone should be punished for playing poorly, but theres a reason that a missed blink puts you into fatigue as nurse rather then immediately allowing you to blink again, or missing an attack gives you a short cooldown. But some of these punishments are worse then others or outright detrimental, expecially if your having a good match as some of these can suddenly set you back an entire game.
Its less about snowballing and more so... why is hillbilly punished with overheat, an attack cooldown, etc upon hitting a survivor. why is huntress forced to abandon chase/treck back to a locker slower then other killers. or an even simpler thing - why is ghostface given a 30s cooldown for attacking someone with his power, whereas knocking him out of his power results in the same negative cooldown. He's forced to attack if he wants to win, whether through marking or grabs/regular m1 etc. and he loses his power for 30s everytime he attacks. wraith doesn't lose his ability to cloak upon attacking and getting a successful hit.
tldr - a better way of phrasing it, is killers are punished for playing correctly, and are punished for playing incorrectly too much at times. theres a degree when it stops being the other side outplaying you, or a lack of skill, and just the game punishing you for playing correctly, or incorrectly too harshly. (thats also not to say that survivor side doesn't have some issues like this, but i find that their a lot more perk related then to the overall chase mechanics.)
I didn't want to comment on nemesis because he's still quite recent, (a month and a half ago) but your exactly right both of you. nemesis is punished for using his secondary attack initially in terms of chase potential. sure it sort of balances out by giving them infection that they have to use a limited syringe for. but... the distance gained if they just run in a straight line is a lil bit sad to be quite honest. they effectively always have a single use third health state if you want to use your tentacle strike on them, which is arguably his main route of attacking.
In terms of iri head, that might need a rework for that, 114% is a bit fast, though to be fair its about as fast as other instant down killers like lf or billy, she can just have a single use ranged attack instead, so i don't think its too drastic to not change it either, but i wouldn't mind it classifying as a full 5 hatchets, since it locks it to that single one anyways.
Soldiers putee could be either reworked entirely, or give her a speed boost temporarily after reloading - essentially, making her 115% if she reloads constantly.
though to be fair, i kind of think a one in the chamber addon (could override or not iri head) which reloads her hatchets upon a successful hit could be fun. thats just spitballing ideas though, and this post was less about balancing/rebalancing things and more - killers are punished for playing correctly, and punished for playing incorrectly in different ways that are just minorly irritating.
ie its not my fault i have to reload as huntress (though i do get to decide when, or how soon) but i have to do it. and i can't chase with a power until i do so.
The ideas for reworking or doing things are arguably more spitbally examples. far from set in stone ideas. myers would deffinately need a bit more work then 115% in tier one immediately, but that would be an instant fix as well.
on ranged killers though, i think the only one that would need working around for that is deathslinger, who tbf can reload on the fly so thats really irelevant and unneccessary. without hatchets or knives, huntress and trickster either are forced to have to go reload (if they haven't gotten the down then they can't be time efficent and do it in between searching for their next target) or keep chasing, which is very annoying at 110%. Your going to run out of ammo, no matter how well you play. unless your playing with ammo addons you can't even down a whole team with a single "clip". And you can't chase with a power until you do reload (some maps also have faraway lockers) and chasing without a power is both, not fun, and incredibly unoptimal, but you might not want to give up the chase either because that would be very bad for the player, so it drags onto situations where the killer is punished for simply playing correctly.
0
