Is Camping really a general problem?
If a Freddy camps a person, you can get a safe unhook with two people and borrowed time or with three people. But if a Bubba camps, you cant.
So maybe there shouldnt be a general fix to camping like many are suggesting and which would probably break the game, but a change to things which make camping strong.
I personally dont mind camping so much, but i can understand that a facecamping killer from the start is boring. But camping has its uses to win the game and you shouldnt limit the killer in his options too much.
Comments
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Camping is a general problem, it makes games unfun for both sides.
Camping comes from the design of the hooking system: you need to hook a survivor a second time to start the struggle phase and a third time to kill him. Remove the second hook stage and let survivors die on the hook as soon as their time on the hook runs out. Killer can hook a survivor as many times as needed, survivors can be unhooked as many times as needed. The time on the hook before a survivor dies will have to be tweaked.
This will remove camping entirely, but will still allow the killers to camp a survivor when exit gates are open or to secure the last possible kill, which are the only situation when camping can be called a legit strategy.
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Not really since its not that common as some people try to make it be.
But if I get camping killer several games in a row, I can understand the frustration.
Luckily most red rank killers either camp very late game/during EGC or are not camping at all
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If I understand it, the meter does not reset when saved? So it slowly ahs less and less, even if the Survivor is unhooked?
This would just encourage fast, unsafe unhooks, where the Survivor is downed, hooked again, saved, downed, hooked again, etc. And now the Killer is barely making any progress towards his goal
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To me what can make it the most frustrating is that there is very little a solo player can do about it. While it's certainly not bullet proof for the SWF, it is FAR easier to coordinate rescuing someone being camped. Just another thing that SWF gives you an advantage to over solo.
I am generally someone who will still try to grab the camped but it's amazing how often I'll go in for the unhook and get the killer to quasi-chase me and hit me, giving someone else a chance to grab the hooked but then nobody goes in for the save. They still just crouch nearby waiting for...a written invitation? I have no idea what the hell they're doing...
Also, give the camped some G D points BHVR. At least make it bearable for them as they can at least score some BP for sitting there AND it'll give solo players a reason to stay hooked when they're being face camped. While I won't leave a game because I'm being face camped because I'm not a selfish jerk, a lot of solos will just kill themselves up there because they have no reason to waste four minutes of their life to help out three complete strangers trying to hammer gens as fast as humanly possible...
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Honestly, I don't find camping too much of an issue. Yeah it's boring, but unnecessary camping isn't actually too common I find. EGC Camping obviously occurs a fair amount, but at least that's justified. That being said, I am biased, since when I play survivor, I usually play in a SWF, meaning we can organise hook saves much more easily than in solo queue.
I think players should be discouraged from it - some kind of mechanic would be good, but I don't see it as a major issue. It was far worse in the days when you had someone like old Bubba, in which case hook saving was essentially suicide if they were facecamping.
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I don't often experience camping, and even when it does happen it's more of the killer patrolling, which may imply that a) he's seen survivors nearby, b) he's using me as bait, or c) he physically cannot leave me because survivors are just running around me.
The last time I've experienced a proper face camp was against a Huntress, and in fairness I was sabotaging hooks because of a challenge, so in a way I can see why they'd be annoyed. And this was about a couple of years back.
So I've probably been lucky, but do understand it's frustrating to face.
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It's the same kind of problem that actual gen rushing is, meaning either game itself spawns or survivors just split it the moment game starts to 4 different gens before even the first chase is initiated. Then even single mediocre chase ends in 3 gens beiing finished by the time of killer gets his first hook.
Exact same thing, one side does something that causes game to be short and boring for the other one without much they can do about it.
But try fixing either without limiting players options or giving either side unfair bonus to their sweaty strategies. It's just not that simple if it's even fixable at all.
Imo, incentives are the best way to go around addressing these issues, give actual rewards or make gameplay more rewarding and supportive of playing in a fun way for both sides. Trying to push for punishments or even mechanical limits to gameplay will just result in different kind of abuse, rendering any fix useless in the long run. Some small fair stuff can work but never anyting major (like the old, no hook progress when killer in x range of a hook "feature").
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What I described is a general outline, the problems that you mentioned can be fixed with additional hooking mechanics. Right now when you hook a survivor, you reduce his time on the hook by 50%. Hook someone twice or 3 times within a minute and that survivor is gone, which is very frustrating for the survivor.
If you take my proposal and reduce time on hook by 20-25% each time a survivor is hooked, it can be one possible solution. And it will still fix camping. At the same time you can still use camping strategically if you wish. Again, total time a survivor can spend on a hook will have to be tweaked, probably reduced, to make sure that killers won't have to do more work than now. This approach would be a generalization of the current hooking system. Additional hooking mechanics can be added too, if needed.
It will fix not only camping, but tunneling as well, since tunneling will make almost no sense anymore.
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Killers that camp aren’t generally skilled enough to get kills in any legitimate fashion.
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Making the Killer hook more is not the solution. He already lacks the time to 12 hook, when Survivors can bang out 3 gens in the first chase.
The problem with these ideas is that Survivors think it's 'unfair' if they get removed before THEY want to be removed. They think there's a flaw in the game where they should have input on how or when they die. It's baffling.
Ah yes, here we go again; insults to attempt to force change on Killers. Salty Survivor mains don't get to decide what is a 'legitimate' kill or not, sorry. He got the kill? Then it was a legitimate kill. End of story.
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I play both sides (killer more often) camping requires no strategy or skill. Maybe I just prefer to “earn” my kills.
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No one cares how you play. Maybe you just lie, for all we know.
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It's still a general problem, even if it's uncommon, because it causes a balancing lock-out.
As much as the killer experience could be improved by gen speed slowdowns, we can't afford to extend the general match duration since that'd buff camping directly.
I genuinely think that camping is the biggest issue this game has, due to that kind of collateral damage.
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I don’t experience a lot of camping as solo survivor unless the gens are done but then that seems a logical choice for the killer to get extra points at the end game instead of looking for a other target. One in the hand = two in the bush?
I don’t see many Bubbas anymore for whatever reason. Is that just me?
are you all really experiencing that many camping killers that are not at end game?
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it's not so hard to fix...BHVR just refuses to do it, very different things.
+30 s to solo gen repair, less % bonus when repairing in groups, +10s to healing, if after 10-15s of someone getting hooked the killer still remains withing certain X distance from the hook (without beign in a chase) he stops winning points, if a surv keep repairing a gen while at a certain X distance from the killer while in it's terror radius he gets exposed.
Start with that... let's see if the game doesn't become much more fun, with killers been able to have a couple of chases without losing 4 gens; with survs having to actually respect and fear the killer instead of finishing gens in their face or just pressing W without looping to win easily or unhooking in front of the killer; you penalize camping while encouraging the fun part of the game which are chases and you also push survivors to have to improve to win games (which fixes a lot the issue of tons of red ranks who don't even know the basics of the game, like looping, gen order or how to team up to unhook or save an unhooked person been tunneled).
Again, might not be super easy to find actual "balance" on an asimetrical game, but it is possible... it's just bhvr don't care about it, it's not their focus; since the game itself is not bad, all they need to keep their player base or find new players is getting good licenses from time to time and add some appealing skins for their usual everyday players.
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Well I for one do camp, Im playing a rank 13 killers vs surv rank1 to 8 most of the times ... I like play as a killer, but like someone said 65% of my matches when I first hooke someone 3 gens are done and the other two ar half way ... So I will make almost no points, I try to camp to get at least 1 kill, because everytime I dont know if its swf or solo player but they always come to rescue, and they almost always can escape ... In the meantime survivor trade hooks, I get more bloodboind ( they always make more then me ) and almost 3 of them escape ...
In the other 35% when I get the first hook and only 1 gen done or 2, I don't camp and try to get a few chances ( best matche for me, lot more fun )
To solve this like someone up sai "give actual rewards or make gameplay more rewarding and supportive of playing in a fun way for both sides. Trying to push for punishments or even mechanical limits to gameplay will just result in different kind of abuse"
Make more rewarding for both sides chaces and hooks, so ppl dont get that afraid of being hooked, and slow down a bit making gens, and eeryone enjoy more.
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No camping isn't a problem, it just need to be more heavily punished especially when no survivors are near the hooked player. Yes some killer are better at camping but all killers can camp regardless or power or perks. Punish it and it wont be as common
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you clearly are a main surv who don't even bothered in trying to be objective and understand where the usual camping comes from...i'll give you a hint, read the comment above you to get an idea.
Solving camping isn't just about punishing camping and ######### everything else.
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JFC. Camping should never be punished. That's the suggestion of people who just want to spite Killers, not balance the game.
Just give the camped Survivor BP for being camped, and make more Killer perks that encourage leaving the hook. Nothing else.
'Punishments' are unneeded and every one suggested (from slow/stop the timer, to stop gaining BP, to giving the Survivor the Killer's BP, to making the Killer blind, or move slower, or attack slower) are just spite-filled, bad ideas.
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If the killer facecamps the entire game and there is no interaction, its boring. But camping is not only that. Camping someone if he has only 10 seconds left for the next hook stage is a good play, which forces the survivor to rescue not always in the last second. If someone camps in the EGC, its more interesting for the survivor then a free unhook and everyone escape easily. So camping has its uses and is not always a problem.
But facecamping the first person two minutes is boring for both sides. Or a camping Bubba. This things could be nerfed, but only if the nerf doesnt destroy other things.
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If you camp with a M1-killer good survivor will always get the rescue. So its not a problem if some killer camp bc you can just rescue.
Granted in solo que it happens rarely but thats a problem with solo communication and matchmaking.
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As much as camping is complained about, in my experience it doesn't happen a lot. Maybe I'm just lucky, but for such a criticised tactic, it barely happens in my games.
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'I personally dont mind camping so much, but i can understand that a facecamping killer from the start is boring. But camping has its uses to win the game and you shouldnt limit the killer in his options too much.'
And there it is, the justification of every killer main to camp, because the devs allow it.
Calling a face camp 'boring' is certainly a more positive take.
This is where you see the killer entitlement on the forums while watching the devs encourage that entitlement. While seeing said killers complain about entitled survivors on a forum dominated by killers. Oh the irony.
gg devs gg
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Rofl. Imagine thinking Killers using a tactic that's accepted by the devs is 'entitlement' while completely ignoring all the Survivor babies screaming for punishments & changed mechanics to cater to them & force the Killers to play by their made up rules.
The real entitlement is the bad Survivor players demanding the game be changed because they don't like losing.
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'If you camp with a M1-killer good survivor will always get the rescue. So its not a problem if some killer camp bc you can just rescue.
Granted in solo que it happens rarely but thats a problem with solo communication and matchmaking.'
What even is this statement, a good killer that facecamps isn't going to slip up. What your alluding too is coordinated swf because in your VERY NEXT SENTENCE you admit its not the same for soloq and therefore swf groups that don't coordinate.
Please post less but think about your content more. I'm 2 posts into you and already tired. How have you managed nearly 2k?
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I have a solution for camping: make it so a Survivor, in the first hook phase, cannot be unhooked. No unhooky til phase 2. That gives their teammates time to do gens and the Killer reason to leave and start a new chase. Alternately, this could be a perk but baseline would be better.
Entirely untrue. This is an insult Survivor mains sling to make themselves feel better and is not reflective of reality. Sometimes you must camp to have any chance at all regardless of your skill and people who don't actually play Killer don't understand that.
Your 'fix' would make it so Survivors could just hook trade while slowly working gens; killers would have no way to win at all. Do you play Killer? Seriously, I want to know. Because I think if you did you wouldn't have suggested this silly idea.
Agreed. Some people just can't stand losing or not having 'fun' for even a single moment.
How much more punishment do you want? I already get points taken off my score even when I'm not camping because of small maps or ######### Survivors lurking around the hook, staying just far enough away that I have to give one of them the save if I try to chase. Points toward a pip that I deserve, but lose because they wanna be immersed and crouch nearby then scream 'camper!' which they would've had no idea about if they weren't crouching nearby watching me.
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Well like I said if no survivor is near then you get punished (except after all gens are done then its fine) honestly you loose such little points for camping, you only lose alot of points if no one trades etc. Camping atm only reduces a small amount of points from 1 category.
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You are very wrong. it's not 'small' at all, especially on tiny maps where you can get the penalty while just patrolling on an upper floor.
EDIT: In fact the existence of any penalty is unfair. Camping should be 'punished' by survivors getting saves or smashing gens and escaping. But that's not what they do and I know it because I run multiple detection perks and play Nemesis and Scratched Mirror Myers a lot. Survivors 'hide' nearby, not doing gens, waiting for the save. At times I've watched my crows and zombies just chase and BOOM non-stop near a hook. Survivors do not try to do gens when someone is hooked more often than not.
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I'm a survivor main because I dont think camping is an issue but should be punished if it's not after all gens are done? The above comment decides to give up, camping straight away will not help you get better, if you're camping when no one is near you arent doing anything or improving. My suggestion punishes killers that just sit at a hook even if no one is there, that shouldn't be rewarded lol
It really is small, unless you're doing nothing but camping or "proxy" camping as people say, once again though it's one category and why should campers be rewarded?
If everyone comes to help sure, but if you're camping that early then it's an issue on your gen and means they're off gens, if it's a 1 or two getting the save then its usually a trade.
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Camping isn't an issue. It's a valid tactic and there are plenty of situations where being near the hook is the smart play.
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Camping. 👏 Should. 👏 Not. 👏 Be. 👏 Mechanically. 👏 Punished. 👏
Survivors punish or reward it by doing gens or rushing the hook like lemmings. Those asking for some bullshit game-enforced punishment are demanding the devs cater to their made up rules and views on camping, tunneling, and slugging. They are thinking they are so entitled to an unhook that they want to force the Killer to give it to them, or be punished for daring to go against their made up rules.
Here's the thing AGAIN:
If there's a 'camping' proximity punishment; Survivor will abuse it. We know this because there WAS, and Survivors abused it.
I don't care if some Survivor main scampers in and goes 'I don't see how it can be abused' because it was. This is not open for debate; It happened. It's a fact that Survivor abused a mechanic designed to punish Killers for 'camping' so badly, that it was quickly removed.
Think about that; not throwing shade on the devs but do they quickly fix anything that's not immensely game-breaking? But the punishment was so abused that it went away so fast, it left a sonic boom in its wake.
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My dude, you are hard defending a method that's literally the killer going 'I know I only did a third of the work, give me the full reward anyway'.
Calling survivors entitled over wanting to play the game is... unique.
Camping won't get fixed by 'incentives'. At least give the camped survivor the satisfaction that no one else dies.
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If Survivors do gens; the Killer gets 1, MAYBE 2 kills anyways. But Survivors stop doing gens and camp the hook nearby, then whine and snivel and blubber that Killers are winning with an 'OP' tactic.
Survivors can literally punish camping, but decide the hook is more important, and demand the devs change the game to give them the unhook they want. That is entitlement. They think they are ENTITLED to every unhook they want.
The Killer is allowed to kill Survivors. At any time. There's no arbitrary time limit (after a gen pops, after 4 gens pop, during EGC) on when he can kill except the bullshit Survivors keep inventing.
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Corrupt, thana, noed, bamboozle bubba can get 2 killer easy every game by camping the first hook and never moving, so yes play styles like that shouldn't be rewarded.
But within my 4+years of play this game I cant say I have ever been punished by those points for being near a hook at end game or passing by one, kicking a gen etc. In fact most killers if they get a hook and a slug near can freely stand near the hook.
Maybe you just camp and stay near hooks more than you should. Theres a time and a place, at the start or while no one is there mid trial is pointless and just bad game sense
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Really? You're going to say CORRUPT rewards camping? it's a start of match perk that stops after 2 minutes, AND there is still gens Survivors can do.
Thana rewards the Killer spreading out his damage with more slowdown than if he just camps. Nice try, though.
NoED only procs in the end game and can easily be cleaned if the Killer camps. Again; nice try.
Bamboozle only works if a Survivor goes for the unhook instead of..oh..doing gens or bones.
Literally every perk you listed is actually made stronger if the Killer does NOT camp, or is negated if he DOES camp. More Survivor lies to invent problems. Just accept that camping is a valid tactic instead of inventing easily disputed lies.
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There should be more options for SURVIVORS outside of perks in order to counter hard-Camping.
Don't bother with that guy, he has a track record for calling survivors entitled in most of his posts along with calling players on here "survivor mains" even though he has 0 evidence or doesn't know what he is talking about.
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Let tell you how i will abuse your idea.
I will always play in pair then when i get down and hook my friend will run to the hook to unhook me instantly with BT even if the hook timer become 30 sec you will need to hook me at least 15 time before i die.
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Camping doesn't make any perk stronger, corrupt buys early time to get the first down and camp, it makes survivors have to run to find a gen to waste time. Also encourages a survivor to try save because their gen was blocked.
Thana just slows the game down, once again buying time. Time is important
Noed. If they dint get the totems (which takes time) you get insta down M1. Even if you lose 5 gens by the first camped player dead you will know the location and like have noed
Bamboozle just to push pallets maybe get a down faster.
Camp all you want, just dont act like it should be rewarded. It's not skillful or entertaining.
I PLAY KILLER. I just dont camp, it's why I'm rank 1 still 4 years later.
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'There should be more options for SURVIVORS outside of perks in order to counter hard-Camping.'
So you're asking for Survivors to have built-in mechanics (the only thing outside of Perks) to counter what they CALL 'hard camping'.
I'd stop calling Survivors entitled if they stopped asking for entitled crap like 'I want built-in mechanics that allow me to punish a totally legitimate play style because I don't like it'.
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If you're camping, they can do totems unopposed. I love this magical thinking that Survivors somehow will be prevented from cleansing NoEd while a Killer camps because of vague reasons they can't actually describe.
Also; no one cares how you play Killer. That does not mean everyone has to play the same way. It's in no way some statement about how all Killers should play. So I don't know why you said it.
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K man. I got it; you won't hear any facts that do not support your hypothesis. Know that if BHVR punishes camping, there will be no Killers. That's all; like it or not, punish playing to win > people stop playing > dead game.
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Maybe you need to have a hard look in the mirror, because as far as I am concerned you're the only one who is coming off "entitled" in these forums.
You see suggestions with legitimate reasons as "I just don't like it" because again the only entitled person here, is YOU.
Goodbye
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In the 3700 hours I have played this game camping is not a problem at all. It very rarely happens and when it does ok? No biggie it's part of the game.
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Yeah, sure. I'm entitled because you say so, while you, and others, demand the game be changed to enforce your Survivor's Rulebook. But demanding the game be changed because you want it is not being entitled. Sure.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I see Survivors pitching temper tantrums. There has been 0 'legitimate reasons' other than 'Because we say so'. But again; entitled Survivors think what they want is how it should be.
Bye! 👍️
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Only fact iv seen is players want to be rewarded for camping nothing else. I must be playing killer wrong then for 4 odd years... funny how I'm always rank 1 though
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You're not. Welcome to the killer club that doesn't need to use those strats to get their ranks. 🤷💅
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Kills mean nothing, but probably I win most games as all killers. I tend to go for hooks than kills so most games is 10-12 hooks. No one is saying play fair, play to win but dont say camping the first person or camping while no one is near is skillful when it's not.
I personally think you need to calm down a little lol
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If Survivors do gens; the Killer gets 1, MAYBE 2 kills anyways
This is the exact problem.
The killer chooses to play as little as they can. It shouldn't be a '1, maybe 2' scenario (not counting NOED which can easily make things worse), it should be a 'maybe 1, but definitely nothing more' scenario. It needs to not even be close to a viable strat. Even by your own admission, it is either dangerously close or already there.
And as I keep saying, it's a matter of overall balance as well since there's a ton of things BHVR can't do without also, as collateral damage, making camping more effective.
You want gen speeds slowed down? You want 'second chance perks' nerfed?
Tough.
Camping exists. Anything killers want is invalidated by that single fact.
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i'm not saying camping shouldn't be punished, i'm saying you are not providing any solution to help them do otherwise by just punishing camping, because the reason behind the problem doesn't lay on the action itself or the idea that "they gave up". Just punishing camping won't help them improve either, just like the actual surv meta doesn't help survs get better at the game.
People only complain about a certain issue and think prohibiting that 1 thing, solves everything....while the issue is much more complex than most people care to admit.
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Rofl. Just because you dislike camping does not mean it needs to be a 'maybe 1, but nothing more' strat, dude.
Christ, the Survivor mains on this forum seem to be blessed with this invincible conviction that their made up rules need to be hard rules.
Fact: Camping is a strat. Camping is allowed.
Also fact: Survivors can't stand losing, and want to prevent Killers from winning, so they keep whining like children about how 'unfair' it is that they can be removed from the game.
Boo hoo. The fact that the Killer can kill comes as a surprise to NO ONE except whiny Survivors who think the game revolves around them.
Camping is fine. Reward the Survivor with 'Distraction' BP. End of story. Stop ######### whining.
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