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Suggestions (New Item) and Fixes (Killer Hook Camping)
I had a few suggestions I have thought of after playing the game for a few years thought I'd drop them here see what people think, (spoiler they are mostly survivor oriented)
New Item:
We haven't had a new item in a while, would be nice to get a new mechanic. To this end I thought something like a crowbar would be kinda cool.
It would have 2 uses on chests and on pallets (depending on level of item / add-ons) the chest could then have 1-2 skill checks but a faster opening time if successful. The pallets could be reset with higher level crowbars or an add-on but consumes the crowbar on use & notifys killer (add-ons from toolbox could be used to suppress this). Pallet resetting could have the same time or longer than a hook sabotage.
Killer Camping:
We've all experienced it, and know sometimes it annoying (especially on first hook of the first survivor), sometimes it a strategy to get points (late hooks / end-game collapse hooks) but during main phase no killer should be camping. While they do get penalised technically by others doing gens, the person being camped gets no BP from being camped, and killers no real camping penalty.
In the lore we know the 'entity' wants the killer to hunt survivors. So I thought of a few solutions, that would help both and be lore friendly I suppose :)
1st suggestion:
Point transfer from killer to camped survivor. If killer is within a certain radius of the hooked survivor and doesn't leave then the killer is punished by transferring point to the survivor. This would only kick in after a 10 - 15 second wind up, giving killer plenty of time to destroy pallets / damage gens and get out of the area, to hunt survivors and please the 'entity'.
After the area has been left a timer could start; say up to 60 seconds that the killer can't return to the area without starting up the 10 - 15 second wind up to point transfer (which would pause the 60 second timer) after the 60 seconds are up the killer is free to return to the area. (By which time he should be focused elsewhere and potentially getting other kills)
I've not thought out the drain rate but I'd say that the longer in the area the greater the drain rate. It would drain from all killer categories simultaneously, rewarding the camped survivor.
2nd Suggestion:
The killer becomes 'blind' and slowed. As with the last suggestion, there would be the same area of effect, and time limits, this time though, the killer would become blind to the gens and totems on the map, also losing a percentage of move speed from them.
3rd Suggestion:
Perk / item regression. Again same idea with the area of effect and timers, this time with a punishment to stackable items or perks. Longer they stand in the area the more progress is lost down to 0 stacks.
All of the above mentioned suggestions would only be in effect during the main phase of the game. Once gates are powered it would no longer apply. The suggestions in my mind are very well balanced and not overly broken by any means, and I welcome any input :)
I've been playing as killer and survivor and tbh, when I play as killer I usually end up with a 4k 99% of the time so survivors need something to help them out. Plus from playing a survivor and being camped in first hook in high level games is kinda infuriating leaving a game with ~ 3000 points and a de-pip; not fun!
Any way tell me what you think ^^
Comments
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Any kind of change like that would need to have an exception when other survivors are close to the killer, because a killer shouldn't be forced to not punish if someone tries to unhook in their face or if someone starts looping around a hooked survivor.
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Oh for sure, that would make total sense, should've put that in there X)
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No.
Just give the Survivor 'Struggle' or 'Distraction' points. End of story. We don't need spiteful, or abuseable, mechanics. Just no.
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Do you not think it's spiteful when a killer camps a survivor from the first hook leaving them with no option but to hang there till death?
It's hardly an abuseable mechanics imo, how do you see it getting abused? (Genuine question, I want to hear the feedback)
If you just give survivors point for getting camped rather than penalising the killer for it, then you open up the possibility of survivors seeking out the killer just so they can be hooked.
Plus I feel I'd given this a fair amount of thought and it just punishes those that always camp, rather than a weary killer, plus I did say camping is a tactic that is used and beneficial when gates are powered / opened, hence why it would only be active during main (gen) phase.
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Any mechanic that punishes a Killer for securing a kill shouldn't exist. Give the camped Survivor BP and that's it. The others do gens and the killer only gets one kill. A lose for killer, a win for Survivors
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during main phase no killer should be camping
I disagree, sometimes camping is a good call depending on the survivors' behaviour. Camping can already be heavily punished by gen rushing, if only people stopped crouching for two minutes around the hook.
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Every single one of your suggestions falls into the same problem 'slow the struggle timer' had:
Survivors can force the Killer to either camp to protect his kill by staying too far away for a Chase to start, but visibly out in the open, or make him chase one Survivor so another gets a free unhook. This is EXACTLY how the old anti-camp punishment was abused.
And that is also exactly why anti-camp punishments won't work; they force the Killer into a lose/lose choice; eat the punishment, or allow a free unhook. And unhooks should not be free.
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No no no, I disagree entirely, a survivor get punished for securing escape by camping, so killers should get the same treatment I'm afraid.
If you just dole out blood points all you get it lazy survivors not playing the game and seeking out killer for a hook. That's insanely open for griefing / abuse.
I regularly get 4ks when playing killer, I have never camped, I sometimes achieve that before 1 gen get gets finished. Camping in main phase has no benefit to killer apart from securing a kill. All it does is waste time for the survivor. I also regularly get between ~25 - 30k points after match regardless of hooking all or not.
There is no killer who benefits from standing there doing nothing for 2 minutes. It's a bad practice and should be punished. The only time camping is a valid tactic is during the gates powered phase through to end game collapse; camping hooks (to stop survivors rescuing), camping gates (to stop survivors escaping), camping hatch (to stop survivors escaping) all valid and good tactics during this time.
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Just because you disagree with a tactic does not make you right, or mean it needs a punishment. You are not a guru of game design.
Let me put it another way; Survivors deserve to resume working on gens they nearly completed. Killers deserve to secure kills. WHEN this happens is not up to you to decide.
On top of that; camping punishes itself; if Survivors bang out gens, then the Killer gets ONE kill and depips. Punished. All these 'punishments' are the same thing, again and again; spiteful 'I'm angry with this tactic, so make the Killer suffer' suggestions that have nothing to do with game balance and everything to do with revenge.
Again; you don't get to decide if camping is okay. You don't get to decide of the Killer 'deserved' the kill. You don't get to decide if it's a 'valid tactic'. This is why camping punishments won't work; they are easy to abuse, and could force the Killer into giving up unhooks when he needs to kill someone to apply pressure.
These suggestions need to stop. Camping is a valid tactic, every 'punishment' invented would be easy to abuse, and 99% of them are just spite.
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How does it? Like I said I've never camped and getting kills is insanely easy, no killer should ever need to camp. I patrol gens and if I'm close go back to the hook after I hear a rescue. I do that because I know at least half the team is there that translates into kills. I have downed all 4 survivors in the same time I've seen some killers stare at a hook lmao.
Survivors being far away from the hook does not mean a killer should camp. A killer should patrol at that point.
If they're in sight they're in danger. I play huntress I see someone being a stupid in the open they get a hatchet, nurse can blink, clown has gas, demo has pounce, hillbilly and Oni have a rush.. no excuse for a chase to not start or even better a down and hook. Survivors playing like this will easily get downed.
Also if 2 are going to save one hook, one as distraction one as saviour, then think about it they punish themselves by not doing gens, which lengthens the time killer has to hook them again and win. No unhook is free! At least half the team it unhooking, which means half the gen progress.
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I will point it out for the...probably 100th time. Congrats. Back when the Struggle Meter was slowed if a Killer 'camped':
Survivor #1 does gens.
#2 and #3 go to the hook. They stand in opposite directions, so the Killer cannot threaten them both. They ALSO stand so far away that a chase cannot start.
If Killer goes after #2, #2 backs up to prevent a chase from starting. #3 goes towards the hook.
Same if you flip who he goes after.
If Killer resets; Survivors reset. Killer has not started a chase yet (due to distance) so the game penalizes him for 'camping'.
Now, the Killer's choice to to 'camp' & eat the punishment (even though HE IS NOT CAMPING because 2 Survivors are there) or chase one, and give the other a free unhook.
This is why the old punishment was removed; it basically forced the Killer, the supposed 'power role' into a lose/lose situation that Survivors could abuse EVERY TIME the first person was hooked. It was quickly removed.
I'm going to say to you the same thing I say to everyone else who says 'I never camp'; no one cares. Good for you. That does not invalidate that your ideas are pure spite or easy to abuse. That does not mean other Killers cannot camp. That does not mean camping should be punished.
I'm not making this scenario up; this is, literally, what happened. This is not a 'It might happen like this', no. This happened. It is irrefutable fact, and adding a different punishment off the same mechanic would net the same lose/lose result.
So again; no one cares if someone does or does not camp. That does not mean it needs to be removed or punished for everyone else.
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I don't believe my ideas are spite at all. Far from it they push the killer into a better way of playing, enhancing their overall skill.
When a killer camps on the other hand that is spiteful in the extreme. Not only do you deny a survivor points for being camped, you also deny other survivors points for not chasing.
All you get is a bad game and just enough points to safety pip. Plus it's hella boring.
In that scenario many killers could down a survivor who's taunting a killer just out of reach, if I take huntress with iridescent heads I can down a survivor easy. Then I've traded one survivor hook for the other and they have to waste more time getting another unhook, in the end you'd get all 4 survivors if they all played this way. You would win.
The scenario you just described is called normal gameplay.
Any killer imo who makes a case for camping is telling me they can't play killer and chase properly, or use the plethora of gap closing or ranged abilities killers have. Camping is only useful after main phase, and that's it, then I totally understand it as it is a viable strat.
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There is no killer who benefits from standing there doing nothing for 2 minutes
That is just a specific form of camping. The word camping is pretty generic and includes a variety of situations, you can't just point out the most extreme and ignore the others.
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I think a crowbar would be better used for breakable walls
The camped survivor should not depip
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I think it should just pause the timer to go to phase 2 or struggle if the killer is within a set range.
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Yeah didn't think of that tbh, would help a lot on some of the dead ends in Gideon for sure lol
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We had something similar before with extending the timer to struggle phase it wasn't great as that was open for abuse.
As if it paused the timer it would be an indefinite hang for the survivor who is then trapped in a game hanging till the killer gets bored. In which time you could do every gen, even with a tier 3 ruin.
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