We can't have some mediocre Killers?

I don't think they should go out of there way to make a bad killer but I think relative power levels are fine. No matter how much you try to balance something, because it's asymmetrical and a pvp game a meta will always create itself. In the game right now every killer is perfectly viable to go into 10 games with no addons and come out on top in at least 5 of them and probably more

No this thread is asking to simply leave some killers more or less alone just because they arent S tier. Now i think their example of trickster was a poor one because im of the opinion that their changes were a nerf.

Behavior doesn't spend thousands of dollars to have a Killer be 3D modeled, textured, animated, voiced, themed and promoted for no one to buy or use them. Killer's are the faces of DbD and no one's gonna use a Killer that's considered terrible. The irony in this game is that despite the fact that a "Killer" is someone that's supposed to be a badass psychopath with an overwhelming presence, which our Killers appear to be...but once you know what you're doing as a Survivor every "Killer" might as well be wearing Jester hats because they're only there for a Survivor's entertainment in this bully simulator... :|

It's actually really sad..

If that was the case, the title would be "Do ALL killers HAVE to be S tier" rather than "Can't we have mediocre killers?"

Do you think every killer has been buffed into oppression hard? You yourself just said Trickster isn't OP and did those changes to Clown make him S tier all of a sudden? This thread isnt complaining about S tier killers, but that F tier killers arn't left in F tier. Most people can agree that aiming for B tier is the general goal here, not mediocrity ( a word im purposefully using because the title is asking for it).

Gimpyfish winning with Bowser in Melee does not mean Bowser in Melee is good. Otz winning with Trapper in DBD does not mean Trapper is good.

i also think trapper should be able to lug a trap by default. Still dont think every killer with a bad community perception needs to be buffed to the point of being oppressive...which is what OP said. Now i dont agree with his idea of whats oppressive like i said i still think trickster is far from OP.

Im talking about what OP wrote. You agreed with OP about having weaker killers for the sake of challenge. Your exact words were "I do hear what you're saying though, and for me it feels right to have some killers not as strong as others, similar to a difficulty level. That way there is a challenge involved."

Its this reason why I'm saying, you dont need killers who are weaker for a challenge, theres already options in play for that.

Why do you care? Play those killers you have fun with. If Trickster is not fun to you, then don't play it.

I don't care how mediocre a killer is as long as they're fun to play against.

That attitude just results in a niche character that no one picks unless they're memeing and another 3 months of waiting hoping for something better next time. The game lives or dies based off if people find a character fun enough to buy and play as.

The devs are the ones making these characters, so of course what THEY worry about and what affects their sales is whats going to be going into the game. They arnt going to develop a character KNOWING its gonna be a niche pick that 1% of the community wants to deal with. They're gonna develop a character that catches people's interest and makes people want to buy that character.

Everytime we get an update with new things, the game gets alot of attention from both people wanting to play AS whatever character is new and the people that want to play AGAINST whatever is new. Niche picks bore both sides since even the ones who want to go AGAINST the new stuff gets bored when nobody picks it. Then people are left waiting another 3 months hoping the NEXT shiny toy will refresh their interest in the game.

Firstly, thank you for clarifying the message and editing it to make your point. I appreciate that :).

So, in response I would say that there was an agreement with OP that some killers could be stronger than others for the purposes of difficulty. I'd argue though that it wasn't a message agreeing to "weak" killers, moreover saying that it was fine to have some stronger than others. The difference there is that all killers should be viable, but at different levels of difficulty.

My first paragraph to OP alludes to the need to have this by saying that sometimes it's necessary to adjust killer balance because of them being too overpowered or underpowered, so looking for an even playing ground.

I certainly agree with you that no killer should be made weak, and also agree with your comments about add-ons. Also, I agree with OP that killers should be at different levels of difficulty to challenge players. So why not have options of having killers who are all strong enough and viable, but having some have a bit more of an advantage than others, and also add-ons that weaken (or use less perks) so people feel challenged without the feeling of hopelessness?

I typed out that and then was like...I should probably explain abit more, lol. You just happened to reply to it while I was in the middle of editing.

As far as I'm seeing, OP isn't really for buffing the weak killers, but rather leaving them weak for the sake of having challenging to play characters. He kept bringing up Trapper for example and how Otzdarva plays Trapper...but Otzdarva himself has been saying for years (as well as the majority of the community) that Trapper should be buffed to allow him to carry more than 1 trap without needing an add-on.

Typically when you have a killer with low mobility that has a power that doesnt help much in a chase... they need some love. Demo is a good example of a killer who has abit of both and works out wonderfully IMO. I can play Demo without any addons, and his addons also dont feel super oppressive. Trapper, Clown and Trickster however are killers with powers that are meh in chase and have low mobility. They have addons that crank up their power, but otherwise they feel meh.

I would even add Myers to this list since he's the only killer who can actually run out of his power. Being able to pop that T3 is great for offsetting his weakness in his mobility, but you can find yourself without being able to stalk anybody by the lategame...leaving you stranded in T2. I like Myers in general, but would like to see some change in this facet so you arnt left in this situation.

I havent really seen the devs buffing strong killers to make them stronger though. If anything, they're toning them down. Nurse, Spirit and Billy for example have all gotten nerfs across the board. Nurse and Spirit have gotten multiple. I havent really seen the case of BUFFING any into oblivion. I guess maybe you could say Freddy after his rework, but that was a fullblown rework that has sense been nerfed.

I mean for me nemesis being weak is annoying cause I'm not losing due to skill, I'm losing due to the tentacle hitbox is inconsistent and people holding w across the map. I don't specifically want nemesis to be stronger, I just want nemesis to be fun.

As for trickster, the only buff I want for him is remove the recoil cause that literally screws over console killers.

Is this a meme post? Nemesis is low tier due to 8 free health states. Against good survivors you are literally either a powerless M1 115% killer early game or you use your power early game and gens will fly. I'd love for you to give me the real time second breakdown of the first two downs in a game in your opinion of what a good nemesis player should do to somehow counter this.

Mindless Otz praise of Otz vs. bad players isn't gonna prove anything.

lol just because you win doesn't mean the killer is strong. Objectively speaking Trapper has is downs and ups. If he can't set up his traps due time pressure he will lose and feel really weird. But it can go the other way around.

But that does not aply do Trickster imo since just go Brrr and the survivor goes down. But he is still not strong since just downing a survivor doesn't win you any matches. You need to pressure Generators and as a 110% MS Killer you only can do that if you can pressure survivors by downing them fast or pressure them over the map.

Trickster was one of the worst killers but it doesn't mean he was that bad. It means just that was compared to other killers not as strong which is totally fine since not every killer can be the next hot #########. I mained him since I liked his character design and I was prepared to not do hot every match but I still got my 2-4k or 0k with everyone dead on hook which was fine. But that doesn't make him a good killer, just because I was doing fine. I dislike the new Trickster. Downing Survivors like insects with 0 effort with his purple unadressed addons is just boring and not fun to see. He is stronger than nurse if it comes to that. But without those addons he is kinda... worse? Like don't get me wrong - Main Event is finally great besides that you need 30 knives now. But he has way less knives and still no good map pressure.

I personally wish they nerf him so he needs 7 knives and not 6, increases his throwing speed, reduces the knives he needs for main event and increases the avaible knives to 50. And I wish he has a third ability which deactives his knives for few seconds but increases his movement speed so he can run faster to important objectives and position himself better.