http://dbd.game/killswitch
Wiggle Mechanics and Hooks
Ok this isn't a rant or a rage post first of all. This is just a suggestion and I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts about this.
So, I believe the wiggle mechanic is fine the way it is. However, I believe the amount of hooks on any given map is too much. I am aware you can use offerings (but let's be honest, 4 petrified oaks aren't going to do a whole hell of a lot by themselves or compared to one TREMENDOUSLY decrease hook distance killer offering) and I am aware you can use certain perks to help and that the mechanic isn't meant to be a guarantee.
My problem with it is that it's almost always never going to do much more than keep you from going to basement across map barring agitation and such. Most of the time, wiggling is pointless and the BP isn't really worth it either.
Now, on to my point. I'd like to see a better hook mechanic in general where those offerings are no longer about distance but removing a set amount of hooks guaranteed. For killer, you add 1, 2, or 3, for survivors, you remove one hook to a maximum of 2 removed regardless of whether 2 offerings or 4 were used by the survivors. And instead of having 20 hooks spread evenly across the map, you have maybe 10-13 on larger maps and 6-9 for smaller maps ie The Game/Hawkins Lab.
This not only allows the killer to still have just as much leeway with hooking but it also allows survivors at least a slim chance of escaping if they have a good team, perks, or the killer didn't pay attention to where he was killing another survivor on hook. In this equation though, I am NOT counting basement hooks in those numbers per map. Basement will still be the same.
After playing both killer and survivor, I like the idea of having to strategically place my downs on hooks but also being able to have a slim chance to escape if my team is good. This brings about some build changes which I like:
New killer meta perks like agitation, mad grit, and iron grasp becoming bigger in killer builds
New survivor perks like flip flop, dance with me, etc becoming bigger in survivor builds
Paying attention to your surroundings as killer as well as having the skill to know where to hook people
Making consoles actually want to struggle because there's a possibility it's worth it (if you're a console that struggles, that wasn't directed at you)
Teammates actually wanting to help because they know it won't be for nothing because a hook isn't there every 10m
I for one LOVE the feel of gambling to a hook as a killer so this would make that heart pounding sensation even better if I succeed, in my own personal opinion. I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this because I'd really like to see what the PTB could do with this. It just seems like a fun way to make the game more exciting and adrenaline packed since you have to be careful and smart as a killer but you won't feel so doomed every time you get downed as a survivor, even if you get hooked.
Thoughts?
Comments
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The oaks used to do that and the meta was still this one.
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Please god no... they made hooks have a mostly even spread for a reason.
I was around before then, and let me tell ya. It was not fun to deal with a sabo squad. Hell, it still isn't, but at least it's more fair now.
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My issue with the wiggle meter is getting to 100% and still being hooked.
Your idea might be worth trying out though, I'm not sure about that one.
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Wiggle is not intended to be a free escape or even something that happens often. Bodyblocking + current hooks is fine. In your world of 9 hooks whats stopping me from communicating with my team all with toolboxes/sabo to remove the closest two+ hooks? Means even more hook deadzones end game too which can mean its literally impossible for the killer to hook a survivor from where they go down. Didn't like slugging before? welcome to the "I am not gonna pick you up and risk hatch" 4 minute standoff.
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1 Oak + Breakout + sabo a single hook is guarantee escape.
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The game pretty much has hooks in a way that guarantees you can make it to one no matter where you are, unless one gets destroyed. Reducing this or spreading them out more with the fact they are perma-destroyed if someone dies on it/saboing is still a thing means you could rather easily create deadzones where the killer can't ever reach a hook.
Carrying survivors seems like more of a task to waste killers time and give the survivors a break without immediate pressure, which you can see whenever a person immediately starts chasing someone else after downing someone. Survivors should only rarely get out by wiggling/getting assistance since killers have to put in so much work for a down already (since it is a 4v1 scenario)
Your idea would create a lot of issues like forcing people to run hook based perks as killer, and being easily abusable by teams of survivors. Also, many maps likely would have natural deadzones if you dont have those perks even if the survivors do nothing.
In the end, it seems like a bad idea that already existed at one time and was removed due to being poorly balanced. Also, do you like being slugged for 4 minutes when the killer cant reach a hook, cause that is just going to make that the killers only option in some cases.
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6-9 hooks on hawkins..
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU???!
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Sabo could be changed to where it requires an entire toolbox to sabo a single hook. There's ways of changing it to work. The rarity would just determine how fast it would be sabo'd. In that regard, it keeps people from using and abusing the sabo strat but it still works. Now it's a decision on both sides. Do you save your teammate potentially or use the box on gens?
Killer has to make tactical decisions as well even turning hooks into a strat. Use all the hooks by one door but not the other. This makes survivors inclined to go towards the non hooked door essentially corralling them to one area.
It has potential if BHVR is able to PTB it properly. As a trapper main, I'd like to see something along those lines change a bit. It's not much of a challenge right now to hook people. I want a bit more of a challenge. And as a survivor, I don't want the free wiggle but a better chance at it, even if that means upping the wiggle timer alongside the hook change.
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Thanks for your...contribution? Would you care to add something to the conversation or...? Would it help if I said 10-12 on Hawkins? How about ideas instead of emotions, yeah?
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I've had that happen numerous times and I agree that it's annoying. However, that's more than likely just latency lag between killer and survivor since Dedicated Servers aren't a thing yet. I get mad at it but I get the lag aspect still.
I'd at least like them to try it out in PTB and see what they can come up with. It might even make camping hooks less of a thing now since you can't just down someone and bring them to another hook within 10m. You'd have to go at least 18m away making it so that survivors can save the hooked survivor without you immediately coming back.
It's just my thoughts but I feel like it has potential.
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Thanks for your...contribution? Would you care to add something to the conversation or...? Would it help if I said 10-12 on Hawkins? How about ideas instead of emotions, yeah?
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Sabo could be changed to where it requires an entire toolbox to sabo a single hook. There's ways of changing it to work. The rarity would just determine how fast it would be sabo'd. In that regard, it keeps people from using and abusing the sabo strat but it still works. Now it's a decision on both sides. Do you save your teammate potentially or use the box on gens?
Killer has to make tactical decisions as well even turning hooks into a strat. Use all the hooks by one door but not the other. This makes survivors inclined to go towards the non hooked door essentially corralling them to one area.
It has potential if BHVR is able to PTB it properly. As a trapper main, I'd like to see something along those lines change a bit. It's not much of a challenge right now to hook people. I want a bit more of a challenge. And as a survivor, I don't want the free wiggle but a better chance at it, even if that means upping the wiggle timer alongside the hook change.
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I think everyone is taking this too seriously. I would like BHVR to expand on the idea a bit more. Sure, it would probably be odd and rough at first but new ideas are never perfect from the get. I think it has potential if the kinks could be worked out. I'm not saying to make it survivor sided. I'm saying it needs to be more balanced. Not everyone plays with SWF so for solo queue they are at serious detriment already. For SWF, they could easily just change the hook mechanic to where all toolboxes can only sabo one hook before being depleted but the rarity determines the speed at which you actually sabo the hook. Then it isn't a SWF sabo fest but it gives people a chance. Save your teammate (possibly) or use your toolbox for a gen. It's tactical on both sides. Killer watches where he hooks to not create a dead zone and survivors have to choose between gens and saving.
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I think everyone is taking this too seriously. I would like BHVR to expand on the idea a bit more. Sure, it would probably be odd and rough at first but new ideas are never perfect from the get. I think it has potential if the kinks could be worked out. I'm not saying to make it survivor sided. I'm saying it needs to be more balanced. Not everyone plays with SWF so for solo queue they are at serious detriment already. For SWF, they could easily just change the hook mechanic to where all toolboxes can only sabo one hook before being depleted but the rarity determines the speed at which you actually sabo the hook. Then it isn't a SWF sabo fest but it gives people a chance. Save your teammate (possibly) or use your toolbox for a gen. It's tactical on both sides. Killer watches where he hooks to not create a dead zone and survivors have to choose between gens and saving.
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I'm sure that there's a way they can make it work. I never said 9 hooks on the bigger maps, just the smaller ones. And that's also a rough estimate. I'm sure they can make it work in PTB. I just wanted opinions, in general, if it could work.
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I'm sure that there's a way they can make it work. I never said 9 hooks on the bigger maps, just the smaller ones. And that's also a rough estimate. I'm sure they can make it work in PTB. I just wanted opinions, in general, if it could work.
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I only played in 2018-2019 til now. Can you elaborate a bit more on that?
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I've had that happen numerous times and I agree that it's annoying. However, that's more than likely just latency lag between killer and survivor since Dedicated Servers aren't a thing yet. I get mad at it but I get the lag aspect still.
I'd at least like them to try it out in PTB and see what they can come up with. It might even make camping hooks less of a thing now since you can't just down someone and bring them to another hook within 10m. You'd have to go at least 18m away making it so that survivors can save the hooked survivor without you immediately coming back.
It's just my thoughts but I feel like it has potential.
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Sorry for all the double posts, guys. Not really sure what happened there.
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Bump (I'd like more opinions. Constructive please. After all, we're here because we like this game)
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Wriggle is never supposed to succeed unless your teammates help you. If wriggle could score an escape regularly, with 4 Survivors, plus wriggle-based perks; Killers would NEVER get hooks. 1 Bodyblock, 1 Killer hit; Survivor wriggles free.
No. Wriggling is fine. It's not an escape option without help. It's only meant to keep the Killer from carrying a Survivor while he hunts for Survivors, and stop him from carrying you to the basement every time.
Your changes would make Killer basically unplayable.
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@Power_Guy I'm also aware the wriggle mechanic is fine. I just feel it could be improved. How would you improve the overall experience?
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In general? No idea; I'm not on the balance team. I'm just pointing out that your idea, while unique, is trying to fix a problem that does not exist and would, in it's fixing, create major problems.
I've already posited ideas to fix camping, but that's not what this thread is about.
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See everyone is going in the "I want wiggle to be a guarantee" mechanic. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'd like it be a slim chance still but right now it's pretty pointless except to keep you from going to basement across the map. Nobody takes hits for anyone because they know he's still gonna get that hook. And I'm talking solo queue survivor. Obviously, changes should be made to accomodate SWF so they get nerfed (like stated above, all toolboxes run out on a successful sabo regardless of rarity, that only affects speed of sabo). As a killer, I see too many people not even struggle because of how pointless it is. That's not fun for me or them. I know they gave up and will probably just die on hook, robbing me of points, and their team of not only points but a possible win. I don't want a guarantee but I want a fighting chance as both a killer and survivor. Knowing I'm hooking them because there's 5 hooks within 20m isn't fun. Being able to have map awareness and run them to the hook I want them on is fun.
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Out of everything they could change right now I think the way it is now is set. I like the idea though but Killers struggle enough as it is. But if I were to change it... Hmm... Honestly I'd I can't really think of that needing to change. I think loops should be fixed before anything else.
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I agree there are some disgusting and stupid loops especially for certain perks like smash hit. And some of the loops, while not "god loops" since you can catch them, they take forever to actually catch them making them "god loops" in that regard.
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