Iron Will should be nerfed

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Given the recent Stridor nerf, there is no counterplay to Iron Will for killers. Survivors emit zero breathing sounds when they equip this perk. It is unlimited and requires zero input from the player. If you are running this perk, you are using it perfectly by default.

At least 50% of survivors seem to be using Iron Will in my trials. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence, but there has been a huge surge in Iron Will usage since the Stridor nerf. It is very problematic against killers who rely on audio input i.e. Nurse, Spirit, and Blight to an extent. Especially in the case of Nurse, her kit blocks LOS by default, and then on top of that a survivor can perfectly restrict audio by simply equipping a perk.

I don't feel that it is fair to remove a mechanic from the trial for the entire duration of the trial by equipping a perk without requiring any input or conditions for activation at all. Would Iron Will be released in its current form today? I don't think so. There would be some condition for it to activate or timer on it. Especially when there is nothing on the killer side to counter it. I think it should be active for a maximum of 45 seconds or only work when the survivor isn't moving or performing an action.

Comments

  • Trickstaaaaa
    Trickstaaaaa Member Posts: 1,256
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    Iron will is fine. I use my eyes more than anything when in chases. And when I play nurse, I usually tend to predict where a survivor will go rather than using noises. Anyway strider is a niche perk that is rarely run by killers other than mostly spirits, or some nurses.

  • InsatiableMop
    InsatiableMop Member Posts: 325
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    I think it still falls to the fact they have to be injured for it to have value, which means they are one hit from death, so its a gamble to rely on it,

  • InsatiableMop
    InsatiableMop Member Posts: 325
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    they also still makes grass noise and have footstep sounds

  • Mat_Sella
    Mat_Sella Member Posts: 3,545
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    Plague, Nemesis, Oni, Doctor, Pyramid Head, Twins. They all have a way to debuff the survivor and keep track of them when they're supposed to be silent.

    Of course people are running Iron Will, screw The Spirit.

  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401
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    Yes. And nerf the spirit propperly, non dependable on a perk.

  • Bwsted
    Bwsted Member Posts: 3,452
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    How do you chase healthy survivors?

    Please, don't tell me by tracking breathing through chase music, because that doesn't happen, unless it's like a Jeff or Jane right next to you.

    You get my point.

    And there's an activation condition. They have to be injured and one hit to down, or the perk literally just occupies the slot.

    Is there no input from the player? That could be said about dozens of perks. It's not really a requirement for good design. Dead Hard does require input and it's one of the most hated perks in the game.

    IW is a good perk. It's not gamebreaking or unbalanced. If we nerf good perks, then we inevitably get more of the same meta.

  • DerpyPlayz
    DerpyPlayz Member Posts: 583
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  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401
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    Dead hard doesn´t even work fine. Is problematic because playing dead hard is playing lottery.

    Why would u like to nerf a perk u cant really rely on?

  • NoOneKnowsNova
    NoOneKnowsNova Member Posts: 2,782
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    If you're using Dead Hard for dodging an attack last moment and not for distance, you're using the perk wrong.

  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401
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    I use it for reaching pallets or structures mainly. But it doesn´t mean sometimes you need try evade a hit. Annnnd.....it´s not a reliable perk. If u play dead hard u should know.

    Sometimes u use it long before the killer attack, and still get the hit. Sometimes u get hit even on the animation. Sometimes it appear the icon on the hud but the animation doesn´t start.


    Dead hard is very good, but probably the most unreliable perk.


  • Kees_T
    Kees_T Member Posts: 810
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    It doesn't matter. It don't lose its value because of this. It's a perk that is overused in 95% of global games, and it should be nerfed, and I'm pretty sure it will someday, to allow other perks to shiny and more diversity in builds.

  • landromat
    landromat Member Posts: 2,193
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    I used to ban iron will in my survivor build because it was too strong, But after buff i said screw it and abuse crap out of it. It's op as hell and i will not remove until they nerf it

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,092
    edited August 2021
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    Actually, yes, breathing is a way to track healthy players on Nurse when they do a good job of blocking LOS. And I find it ridiculous that human survivors with Iron Will don't require oxygen at any point in the trial, injured or healthy. The difference between a healthy player running randomly without Iron Will vs with Iron Will is that you can hear if they path poorly. Iron Will allows the survivor to break LOS and have nearly unlimited options because it deletes all sound. It's akin to a killer not having a red stain/TR with zero conditions or counterplay other than dealing with it.

  • Desh
    Desh Member Posts: 1,118
    edited August 2021
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    Except IW is a meta perk. It's also not just tracking grunts and cries through chase either (it helps, but it's not the sole method). The whole point of those grunts and cries is to possibly alert the Killer that a Survivor is nearby if they have't healed for whatever reason. If you take that ability away, there is absolutely no way to counter it unless you ran a Killer who defies that (Plague, Nemesis, Oni, etc).

    Edit: With that in mind, I'm not saying we should nerf it or change it. But every perk has a counter. IW should be no different.

  • DerpyPlayz
    DerpyPlayz Member Posts: 583
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    Dead hard doesn´t even work fine. Is problematic because playing dead hard is playing lottery.

    That is because you don't understand what you are doing. DH, if used properly allows for the correction of mistakes that would otherwise down you. IF you are using it before the killer hits you, you are using it incorrectly. Use it to get to loops, or windows with plans in mind, either as a extension or as a correction for your mistake.


    It is the only perk in the game that I know of, that counters every killer power in the game.

    Why would u like to nerf a perk u cant really rely on?

    I wouldn't. Why would you bring up this point, when we are talking about Deadhard. One of the, if not the best perks in the entire game.

    Its so consistent that you can rely on this perk for multiple lives.

  • BenihimeWrath
    BenihimeWrath Member Posts: 968
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    'Using it perfectly by just equipping it' is enormously arguable. You have to be exceptionally good at mind gaming and misdirection as a survivor in order to use it effectively. In fact most exhaustion perks would be better used in Iron Wills slot in terms of survival.

  • entitydispleaser
    entitydispleaser Member Posts: 31
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    Can you see through walls? I doubt it. That 2-3 seconds of misdirection can extend a chase even longer all because the survivor is completely silent. Also, don’t act like sounds aren’t messed up rn. You can barely hear foot steps and I have probably one of the best if not the best one you can get

  • Artemisha
    Artemisha Member Posts: 401
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    That is because you don't understand what you are doing. DH, if used properly allows for the correction of mistakes that would otherwise down you. IF you are using it before the killer hits you, you are using it incorrectly. Use it to get to loops, or windows with plans in mind, either as a extension or as a correction for your mistake.


    If u had readed my message correctly, u would know I use it for accessing loops, as you are suggesting me. Besides that, u are arbitratily interpreting how dead hard should be used.


    But....let´s read perk description:

    Activate-able Perk.

    You can take a beating.

    When Injured, tap into your adrenaline bank and dash forward quickly to avoid damage.

    • Press the Active Ability button while running to dash forward.
    • Avoid any damage during the Dash.


    Sometimes u use it long before the killer attack, and still get the hit. Sometimes u get hit even on the animation. Sometimes it appear the icon on the hud but the animation doesn´t start. So yes. Dead Hard sometimes is a lottery.

  • Ludicris
    Ludicris Member Posts: 244
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    Stridor no longer counters Iron Will. Now when you run Iron Will you make 0 noise while injured, regardless what anything else in the game does.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,325
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    Most higher level survivors don't care about being injured with IW, Resilience, Dead Hard, etc.

    It's far more efficient to repair faster, be nearly impossible to track, and have DH as your renewable 2nd health state, than spend time healing. This makes it extremely difficult for most killers to pressure survivors off gens.

    My rework would be to make IW work as it does now for 30-45 seconds, and then the injured noises slowly return to normal volume over another 15-30 seconds. The perk resets when fully healed. This would give the perk some small downside and discourage staying injured for the entire match.

  • Bwsted
    Bwsted Member Posts: 3,452
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    I play Nurse as well. You skated around a crucial point of my question. How do you track their breathing through chase music? The reality is that you don't. That makes healthy survivors and IW injured the same for chase purposes. I chase IW users the same as I chase healthy survivors, knowing that I have to be careful about making certain plays.

    I don't think it's necessary, but I'd understand if they added breathing into IW. My point is that it will impact stealth way more than chasing potential and unique pathing, which seem to be your main concern over the former. And other nerfs seem pointless and would just push a very good yet still balanced perk into the realm of unworthy inventory clutter, of which we have already plenty.

    If you're concerned about counters, I just described it for IW in the first paragraph. I will add what I always say on this subject. Not everything needs a counter on a micro level, as long as it doesn't create imbalances at the macro picture. That would be unfeasible anyway from a design point of view. There are plenty of examples for both roles in this game of situations that don't have any meaningful counters. Not all of those are problematic. What was anyway the survivor's counter to old Stridor, for example? To run No mither with IW?

    The crucial issue here is that the Devs nerfed, or shadow nerfed Stridor, instead of fixing sound interactions at a global level and possibly avoiding taking a look at Spirit's power directly, if that was one of their concerns. That's my main gripe with the whole change.

  • ZonkyWizard
    ZonkyWizard Member Posts: 568
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    I think Iron Will is perfectly fine the way it is

  • White_Owl
    White_Owl Member Posts: 3,786
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    Survivors emit zero breathing sounds when they equip this perk

    I think that is the main problem, otherwise the perk is ok (since it's usefullness is entirely dependant on the survivor). Make it not affect breathing sound, and buff the breathing aspect of Stridor to compensate for the fact Iron Will completely counters it now.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,092
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    I didn't mean to skirt around it. My bad. I have audiophile headphones and an amplifier. I've always heard breathing through chase music.