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Why does tinkerer exist?
Tinkerer is probably the only killer perk in the game that I find problematic. It's sole use is helping killers with their gamesense and completely screwing over solo queue while doing literally nothing against good SWF players. Combined with Ruin it's pretty annoying but that's not ruins fault it's tinkerers fault.
I have no issue with the Ruin Undying meta, if anything as long as I have good teammates I love it. Tinkerer however isn't even good it's just annoying when combined with it.
Seeing a blight bail half of their chases to go to a tinkered gen being worked on by a clueless Meg makes unfun gameplay. Chances are they won't even win the match either because they think that tinkerer is a better perk to take than corrupt. Ya know, corrupt, the best stand alone killer perk in the game.
I don't really see the point in the perk when it's sole purpose is to stomp noobs and makes unfun gameplay.
If I were to rework it id make it activate on 70% still, remove the undetectable status effect and add a 7% haste bonus to the killer for 16 seconds. This makes it better on pretty much most killers, makes it more fun and now it actually has a use against good players by having a faster chase with haste.
(No I did not just get rolled by a blight, I made this after seeing a content creator pick tinkerer over corrupt on bloody trickster. Why)
Comments
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I use Corrupt on every killer that has it... The early match struggles are real without Corrupt
And I don't run Ruin/Undying or even Tinkerer... It's not my playstyle or both totams are gone within the first couple minutes
I was debating on using Huntress Lullaby/Undying but I won't until I can get used to not having Corrupt (one perk VS. two is really hard)
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I don't think the perk itself is problematic, even to solos. It's the overall combination of everything in that build that makes it good.
General awerness destroys tinkerer, unfortunately solos lack that and no nerfs or buffs can help them with that.
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I have to agree. I almost never use Tinkerer because I know how annoying it is to go against and isn’t really high risk high reward and/or you have prerequisite to activate it like Ruin or Pop. It needs to be tone down like having a cooldown or making only notify each gen only once.
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Ah yes god forbid the killer runs a perk to help in a 4v1.
Its totally not like you can split up on gens or get ruin etc.
Tinkerer isnt good on it's own at all.
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I think tinkerer is fine. You can easily find out if a killer has it and work your way around it. So far had no issues against killers with tinkerer.
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Tinkerer is my least favourite killer perk in the game for a reason, kicking out NOED which has held that spot since November 2017.
Though, the strongest part about Tinkerer is the information it gives. Limit it to one proc per generator and I'm perfectly fine with it.
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I agree that Tinkerer is a problematic Perk. IMO the most problematic one in the Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer-Combo. You dont need any Awareness to use it, it is just a "Pressure here!"-Sign.
But I disagree with your idea:
"If I were to rework it id make it activate on 70% still, remove the undetectable status effect and add a 7% haste bonus to the killer for 16 seconds. This makes it better on pretty much most killers, makes it more fun and now it actually has a use against good players by having a faster chase with haste."
This would not solve the problematic bits at all. The Undetectable Status does not really matter that much, except for grabs or stuff like that (or if a Tinkerer-Bubba comes around the Corner). However, with this the Killer would still get their "Pressure here"-Sign, there would still be the very strong combination with Ruin.
And on top of that, 7% Haste will allow Killers without Mobility to move to a Gen faster. And I guess nobody really wants to lose a Chase because the Killer got 7% Bonus Speed, which is out of the control of the Survivor.
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Hmm,i don't find Tinkerer too strong honestly.
I can totally understand that it's frustrating to go against with Ruin+Undying/Pop on high mobility killers,but getting rid of the totems,splitting up on gens and be aware when the gen hits the 70% mark should be enough to deal with it.
Sure,that's easier said than done in solo queue but that's another problem in itself.
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Honestly, the problem DOES lie with Ruin. Remove Ruin from the equation, and Tinkerer is fine. Remove Tinkerer from the equation, and there are still a lot of doom scenarios.
The fact that Ruin automatically regresses gens AND doubles the regression rate is what makes it so danm powerful, especially with Tinkerer and Undying. I think removing the automatic regression and adding more double regression rates(missed skillchecks, Surge, Eruption, all current regression perks except for Pop, which needs to remain exclusive from Ruin as 50% regression is overkill unless they rework Pop to be 25% of the progression made rather than kicking away 25% of a total gen) would make Ruin far more interesting, without being so oppressive on already oppressive killers.
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Yeah tinkerer is one of the few perks I’d feel comfortable calling a crutch. Watch any basic build blight player and you can see how much they rely on it
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I would say that the concept of tinkerer is good, I don't mind the "pressure here" sign because even if you are a good killer you are bound to get use of it because macroing perfectly doesn't happen that often. The issue I would say is how it's executed.
The haste status effect was more to make it viable on more killers and less obnoxious. Them god damn double speed blights crossing half the map in a second make me want to rip my hair out. The main concept of removing the undetectable was to give people a better warning when the killer was coming.
How about this: Activates at 70%, 5% haste for 12 seconds, can only activate once per gen, haste doesn't stack.
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It's a badly designed perk, one that rewards killer for survivor simply doing the objective. And it actually has no cooldown of all perks.
It's broken and unfair. You feel cheated against it every time.
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Thank you for your input sluzzy.
:)
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You are welcome :)
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Oh look your back
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It’s frustrating when that happens for sure but I don’t think it’s a problematic perk like people are making it out to be,
depending on the map you may see the killer coming to you when tinkerer activates so it won’t be a jump surprise.
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Borrowed time and Decisive Strike Reward the survivors for killers doing the objetive (killing), we can use that poor argument for both sides.
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Curropt isn't the best perk in every killer, Curropt blight it's redundant to say the least, same for Billy, nurse, spirit, wraith, on those killer Tinkerer makes a lot more sense, and it helps against swf too, in pair with discordance (even tho if you're using it on an high mobility killer, you will probably arrive there no matter what so yeah) plus it's really good with ruin, and decent with pop, but i don't think it's problematic.
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Tinkerer is a decent perk. Its just a noobstomper and i dont think we can nerf everything bc of this reason. Old ruin nerf was fine, but should we nerf legion bc bad players waste pallets against frenzy and struggle playing injured? Sometimes bad players need to learn how to counter something.
Undetectable is countered with game awareness. The same awareness the killer needs to have to know where the survivor are. And sure tinkerer helps with that, but survivor could use spine chill, when the basekit mechanics like TR dont work. And we should not forget that a killer needs to know what 4 people are doing.
For the tinkerer combinations: Ruin can be deleted and Pop needs a hook. And if the killer has a pop ready for every tinkerer notifications, your team gets demolished anyway.
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omg you should've seen it. there was a huge welcoming party when they got back.
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Sluzzy... Making a point? This...
Universul se apropie de sfârșit.
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It shouldn't reveal which gen is at 70%. It's basically a "go here" notification that removes all the skill involved in map pressure and gen control.
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Except that the Killer does not have to go after the same Survivor to win the game.
There is no way the Survivors can open the Gates without doing Generators.
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Yeah, but I still dont understand why you want to buff Tinkerer. Removing the Undetectable does not really nerf it, compared to giving Haste to make it better useable AND a Chase-Perk.
And yes, it should only function once per Gen anyway.
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Why not make it only trigger once per generator or something? That way, Ruin can't just constantly reset the trigger condition over and over.
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Tinkerer is fine tbh. And tinkerer is the way it is because survivors thought old tinkerer was too op or the devs thought it was too strong its one of those 2. But a 7% speed buff would be too oppressing that would guarantee a down or a hit.
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Tinkerer a problem makes no sense to me. I feel like people are being petty about it. Ruin/undying/tinkerer on a few killers can be tough but in the end majority of totem spots are garbage leaving just tinkerer which by itself should not be a problem. Free info/effect can be said about lots of perks. Alert is more dangerous an the Survivor literally has to do nothing. Ofc the killer is going to activate it with 20+ pallets on every map plus kicking gens. I do however love your idea for changing it sounds more fun. I personally don't run to every tinkered gen I like the effect mid chase.
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Why is it always the fault of those evil Survivors?
Old Tinkerer was changed, because it was a Perk with a confusing Mechanic. It only benefited certain Add Ons and Killers and was useless with other Killers and Add Ons. And it was easier to change the Perk, since it was not only confusing but the Devs would have needed to balance everything with Tinkerer in mind so that certain Add Ons do not become too strong with Tinkerer or too weak without Tinkerer.
Since they changed the entire effect, Tinkerer only received Buffs.
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I don't see Tinkerer being an issue. Tinkerer doesn't do much if survivors split up, because even mobile killers can't stop 3 separate gens from popping and giving up every chase to defend gens when survivors are pressuring multiple gens will lose you the game.
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SpineChill, Bond, Kindred, etc.
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There's a huge difference, borrowed time is countered by not tunneling or camping and DS punishes survivor to actually keep it. There's no counter at all to tinkerer, the killer gets a huge blessing for survivor doing what they supposed to do.
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I think Tinkerer on it's own is fair and balanced and Ruin on it's own (or with Undying) is pretty balanced as well, but it's when those 3 perks are combined, it creates a boring meta of leaving chases to scare survivors off gens. Maybe down them in time before you get your next Tinkerer alert, if not, just leave the surv to got to notification. Rinse and repeat all game or until Ruindying has been found.
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You know what? Yes.
Tinkerer could see a change, like...reverting it to its original version. Only a few killer will be able to use it, but it is going to be fun!
Some people here might remember what I am talking about, as it lasted for quite a while:
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I think it's fine, It's not strong on it's own. With Ruin / Undying that's 3 perks dedicated to Gen defense so of course the killer will use it to the best of their ability.
Spinechill would help you, even with a mobility killer.
A broken combo is surely Unbreakable, Flip Flop, Power Struggle, Smash Hit on any good looper who intentionally goes down near a pallet.
I generally think that's more of a waste of time on progress than Tinkerer / Undying / Ruin is, especially in a swf scenario.
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In that case should it be reverted to 85%?
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I have no issue with Tinkerer as a solo survivor - it's pretty easy to know when a killer has it and the counter to it is simple - pay attention.
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I run tinkerer on Freddy and it's most broken thing I've seen in this game lol just equipp ruin/undying or pop with tinkerer on him and you're guaranteed for 4k very easily
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Why is it always the fault of those evil killer mains?
Same thing can be said for both sides. Except it kinda is the survivors fault that perks, add ons, and killers get nerfed. Hell even the reworked maps like the saw map is survivor sided. Survivor mains tend to whine alot which isn't surprising because they have the majority. But the discussion here is if tinkerer is too strong, I think its decent not too strong and not too weak. God forbid killers use perks that have synergy with their power.
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- Free critical info about the other side without any input from killer
- No cooldown when half of the ######### perks have one
- No counterplay (can't be bypassed to finish a gen)
- Absurd synergy with Ruin and most meta perks
- Strong synergy with high-mobility / teleporting killers
- Absurdly strong versus bunches of solo players, only moderately strong versus SWFs
- Always found in killer builds in the boring 20+ minutes games
- Ability to camp people on hook without any risk until the perk triggers
- Ability to camp a slug on the ground without any risk when there are only 2 alive survivors
This perk just won the award of the worst designed perk from balance POV!
The single thing that can be funny about this perk is baiting the killer to come to the gene ... but you first need to remove Ruin for obvious reason.
Post edited by gnehehe on1 -
This post is pure nonsense.
You said that Tinkerer got nerfed because of Survivors. I gave the actual reason why they changed the mechanic, I did not even say anything about Killer Mains or Killers doing anything wrong with that Perk.
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I think my biggest problem with it is that it doesn't match its flavor or title in the slightest. How does tinkering with a generator make you more stealthy? The info part I can see, but suddenly becoming M&A tier 1 Myers as well? Sus.
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All it takes is a team of survivor spread out on multiple gens as the killer is unable to be in multiple places at once. The worst that can happen is the killer drops a chase to chase a single survivor working on a gen at 70%+ progress meanwhile 2 other survivors are still working on gens.
The killer can't just keep abandoning chases to go after every tinkerer proc if survivors are proccing multiple gens within a short period of time.
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Tinkerer really is fairly simple yo deal with. So long as someone has basic awareness, listens out for killer breathing, positions themselves so that they have a good view around them and it's an easily counterable perk. Having the terror radius suddenly disappear and looking at the progress of the gen is also another easy way of being prepared.
The fact perks like Spine Chill and Perception exist also gives an extra easy way of defending.
This perk is perfectly fine as it is, and with adapting to it and not being so perk-reliant improves the overall observational skills.
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I pretty much always use spine chill, and have never had a problem with tinkerer.
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Nah, 70% is fine. Either don't tell which gen is at 70% or make it only work once per gen.
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TL:DR
Would you prefer tinkerer go back to what it was? It didn't use to be what it is today. It used to increase the effectiveness of killer add ons. That lead to some crazy OP builds like insta-saws and machine gun hatchets. That's why it was changed.
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Of perks in this game that need nerfs, Tinkerer doesn't even break top 5 imo. When you know the killer has it you can counter it. If you don't, that's your fault.
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Why don't you go and cleanse Ruin then? That way it won't proc multiple times.
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You learn to anticipate Tinkerer. You learn when a gen has reached 'about' 70% progression, and then you act a bit more carefully, anticipating a killer without a terror radius.
Just like how you anticipate BBQ and get in a locker, or you anticipate NOED and cleanse totems.
But I do like the idea of Tinkerer having a 'once per generator' condition, or even a 'once every 60 seconds per generator' if that's even possible to code.
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I started using Tinkerer 2 matches ago as im an Oni main and the perk makes more sense on him than say M&A.
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