Otzdarva noed experiment
Heeyyy
here is my take on his expreriment on otzdarva’s noed experiment
first point literally every game survivors are overtly altruistic on a camping killer
2 point otz said noed is not earned and this pisses me off a bit
why should a killer perk be earned its the dumbest argument in a long time why let me explain
its another way of saying camping with noed should not be allowed and why would a perk need to be earned
i dont see him saying survivor perks should be earned
i could go on but its sad to see these streamers demonize noed users who camp ive faced many noed campers if im npt on the hook geuss what im soing im leaving
also note before people start spazzin dumb ######### i dont hate otz and think he is a great entertainer
Comments
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So... you're upset that some one else who's a large figure in the community doesn't have the same opinions as you...
gotcha
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I think he think it's not earned is cause the majority of instadown perks you have to do something to activate it, especially devour , with noed it's just a totem has to be not cleansed
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Otz is a great streamer and im sub to him and i agree not having to earn noed is not a bad thing. Most of the game the survivor he was going against were trash too he did his best to suck and he was killing them before they could do 5 gen most of the time with only noed. Just imagine if survivor had to earn dead hard instead of being a reward for getting injure because they got outplay by the killer
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Tbh I've never understood why there even is the kind of opinion that any perk gives you something you didn't earn. You're literally using a perk to earn it even if it may seem cheap, it is earned.
It's kind of like saying that unless you do at least 2 gens of time, you didn't earn adrenaline so it should not activate for you even when you literally used 1 out of your 4 perk to have stronger endgame.
Anyway, it's not like I think current version of NOED is perfect, far from it. It would be nice if it could be reworked to keep it's strong snowbally effect for the endgame but in either some different way or with more conditions and benefits as well.
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Earned or not, NOED is kinda overpowered. One way to nerf it is to make a requirement for it to work.
I think the healthiest way to do it would be to make it work only on survivors you hooked during the match.
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I don't think that NOED is earned but to me that doesn't matter most perks in the game aren't earned. Plenty of both killer and surv perks are just given out. I don't see whats to be angry about. I'll play whatever perk I want when I want, doesn't matter what any creator (or anyone else for that matter) says, don't matter if I love their content or not they cant control what I feel is fun simple as that.
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As a Noed user, I still hate Killers who camp/tunnel into Noed.
I feel like the most fair change to Noed are:
- Exposed only applied to Survivors who already hooked once.
- Each hook on a unique Survivor gain a token. M1 spend a token which is instant down.
So at least camp/tunneler have less use on Noed.
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I feel NOED is more of a punish insta vs earned. DH you need to actually work at it to get the effect. NOED is there to punish survivors for doing nothing but gens.
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The reason I don't mind NOED is because it is a deterrent to rushing gens and closing the game in 5 minutes. If me as a survivor is worried about NOED being a possibility, then I need to do the side objective and search for the totems and take it out of the game. It was fun to watch them have to worry about and deal with it in the hardcore challenge.
NOED can be strong in end game. It can also be found immediately and cleansed before you even get a down with it.
There are many perks that aren't earned. I don't think just because it has a one shot mechanic it necessarily needs to be.
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The problem is he has massive sway with the devs. They were even watching his stream during the ptb.
Name a single survivor meta perk that is "earned" NOTHING a survivor does is "earned". But killers must go through multiple hoops to get a perk to proc once with a 20 minute cooldown after.
Do bones of GTFO when the gens are done. Survivors hate it so much because they want to make a "sick" hook rush bt body block play out the exit for the youtube montage.
I guarantee if NOED became meta then survivors would equip one of the multiple totem perks or a map and it wouldn't be an issue. Even as it is it isn't a problem for SWF. How many times did they cleanse all 5 totems during their hardcore survivor challenge?
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Shouldn't this be under Otzdarva's video? I don't even know what you're talking about, and I doubt I'm the only one.
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Survivor main here- i believe NOED is fine. It sucks when you or your teammates get caught by it with a bad killer, but it’s not overly used IMO. At least not so much on a high level. Rank reset taught me to always do totems, and I have a decent understanding of their possible locations- on half the maps. Devs keep it fresh by moving some of them around every chapter & mid-chapter update.
NOED (just like Bloodwarden), adds a “what if/I wonder” element to the game, and I’m cool with it. Running totem builds (helps you understand their general location for when you DON’T use em) and destroying all totems, escaping, and seeing that the killer had NOED at the postgame screen is VERY satisfying!
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Like, who cares?
Earned, it's a perk in the game. There are many of them. I mean what actually is considered , Earned? Devour, maybe, but that is really just playing the game. Other than that, just about every perk is free. Some have a few stipulations to activate, and I guess this is what you may mean by "earned."
But, let's face it, all of these perks are available to anyone, all you have to do is play the game, and pick a build. The only thing earned is the money you put into the game, and perhaps that isn't even earned by you.
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Nothing but gens? Unhooks, heals, and chases don't count? What about all that plus 4 out of the 5 totems?
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i am fine with this.
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Because adrenaline, the survivor equivalent has to be earned, and is made totally useless by NOED. It’s bad game design.
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Perks don't need to be earned, but very strong effects should. Just look at every other instadown perk in the game. It's the same problem old MoM and DS had and no idea why NOED still hasn't received the same treatment.
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Regarding the,, Not earned part":
Noed is a Totem perk. Totem perks are meant to be extraordinary powerful.
Yes I am annoyed and roll my eyes if I see that the killer is using noed but it is a hex perk, and as a hex perk it is fine. Tbh other Totem perks should be brought to this power Level instead. The only other hex perks that are.. Worth" being hexes (Power lvl wise) are ruin and devour hope
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People should do bones, and if we're talking about perks that you dont earn, dead hard rewards you for getting hit
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There's plenty of games where the killer is already doing well, and the survivors barely complete the last gen, then get hit by a very frustrating noed that they couldn't afford to prevent earlier. Just the icing on the cake. I think some of Otz's noed games can show that scenario, he was even playing more reserved so he wouldn't 4k before the end.
There's also the facecamping kind, where a killer camps someone to death, and then gets another kill from noed, or maybe even more. Generally it's not engaging for anybody and feels even worse for the camped survivor.
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So why most of the survivor perk need to be earned if a killer having to earn a perk is such a stupid idea? Double standards much?
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THIS!
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If it wasn't engrained into survivors minds by streamers to ignore dull totems and only focus on gens and nothing but gens, then NOED probably wouldn't activate in most games.
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"he has massive sway with the devs"
Name one change he exclusively said, that actually ended up in the game. I'm waiting.
Also ######### are you on about??? Survivor perks aren't "earned" but neither are killer perks. What exactly are you doing to get Ruin, Corrupt, Undying, Tinkerer, or even NoED to proc?? You're not actively going out of your way to activate these perks. Neither are survivor meta perks like DS, Unbreakable, BT.
Also survivors hate not being able to go for end game saves when NoED is in play because its not fun to leave some one behind. People like going for risky plays because its thrilling and adrenaline inducing. But when you add NoED or even an insta down killer they can't get that thrill or excitement, because they know if they even attempt it they're gonna most likely die doing so.
And people already run totem perks... Hex totems have been apart of the meta for a long time now and NoED isn't going to change that
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Completely agree. I'd say NOED will eventually get tweaked.
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Deliverance, counterforce, adrenaline, flash bang, Detective's Hunch...there are many perks on both sides that have to be "earned" before use. Having to perform an in game action to activate is the definition of earning a perk. NOED requires nothing is what OTZ means. NOED really isn't any good anymore anyways with all the totem hunting perks and decent players. My SWF will have all 5 totems gone in first minute. Its surprising more survivors don't totem hunt, but most players don't play this game correctly: FOR MAXIMUM POINTS!
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I think people get a little turned around with noed. Here's the thing, a lot of perks capitalize on the opposing side doing or not doing something. Noed is no exception.
Let's look at Unbreakable. A very strong second chance perk. The survivor does nothing to 'earn it'. They simple get downed which is a part of the game. Now that they are down they are depending on the killer NOT picking them up. If the killer leaves them slugged and they pop back up then too bad for killer. They just lost all their momentum for making a bad call.
Noed is very much the same. It activation relies on the survivors NOT cleansing all 5 totems. It has nothing to do with the killer earning it. What makes it even more silly is survivors can delete Noed and also have an ton of tools at their disposal to do so.
On the topic of Noed being so powerful that it should be earned: sure, if noed activated at the start of the trial...but it doesn't! The killer goes all game with 3 perks knowing that their end game ace in the hole can be wiped well before it comes into play. That is the beauty of noed. Its very high risk, and very high reward when you need it most. That is why it so powerful and I think people forget that.
The only reason Noed is in the community's cross hairs constantly is because entitled players feel like their win was 'stolen' from them. If you didn't do bones, and 4 people die from noed at the end, that is very bad plays and decision making on the survivor end... and that is hard pill for most people to swallow. Much easier to cry for a nerf.
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You know what I meant. NOED is there to punish people who complete their objective too quickly. When I'm playing survivor if were ahead I purposely stop doing gens to find totems for fear of NOED. There are times where the killing is playing well and you may not have time to find totems but the premise is the same. You rush gens without even looking for totems, you run the risk of NOED.
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Totems are Boldness-Points, those are probably the easiest to get. You dont need to do Totems to get max Boldness. If there would be no Category Cap OR Totems would give Survival-Points, you would see way more people cleansing Totems.
Also, you name it - SWF. Not everyone plays in an SWF. For me, cleansing Totems does not really make sense, since I dont know how many Totems my Teammates will do. So I might just waste my time for a Perk the Killer does not even have OR I waste my time and still get hit by NOED, because nobody else did Totems.
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Yeah, with two extra seconds of chase.
Unless you use it really well, in which case it's earned again.
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Killers perks imo should never be "earned" survivors should be punished for not doing totems.
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I am solo and I use my totem hunting build 70% of the time. I can't count the number of times I have saved my team from Noed lol. People really underestimate the totem perks.
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I said meta perks but you seem to have skipped over that.
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Devour,make your choice, no way out, numerous other killer perks that require earning but have amazing effects despite the fact. Noed is mostly comparable to devour. Devour can be cleansed 30 seconds into the match. Devour requires 3 non camping unhooks from 24 or more meters away to get the instadown. Noed can't be cleansed immedately. Immedately has a instadown. And has a haste effect over devour. And i can stand in a corner and wait for 5 gens to pop and reap the benefit.
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I used to have the exact same opinion that Otz expressed in his video. However, my opinion changed over time. As others have pointed out, a perk doesn't have to be earned. NOED is designed to be the killer second chance perk that punishes survivors for not interacting with the secondary objective (which is rewarded by the system) to efficiently achieve the primary objective or not use a non-meta totem detection perk. The severity of punishment is a bit RNG based, but you get the idea.
Please bear in mind, many powerful second chance perks are not earned. DS doesn't require a survivor to accomplish something to punish an efficient killer playstyle (tunneling). Unbreakable does not require an action to initiate its anti-slugging function. A survivor doesn't need to do gens to get the benefit of Adrenaline. They can be immersed and receive its effects all the same if the team carries them. If NOED needs a change, most of DBD needs to be changed TBH.
Also, Otz had a mental hiccup by claiming that endgame perks like No Way Out makes NOED "more unfair" under the premise that NOED is powerful while not being earned. Otz even suggests that NOED be activated like No Way Out................... which wouldn't change the course of the matches he shows. So, by his own definition, the other endgame perks do not make NOED less fair if he has to earn them. Except for the Trapper game, the results would have been the same with his revised NOED.
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This guy gets it.
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It's not OP in any way, it's not even considered one of the better killer perks since you play with 3 perks all game and maybe get to use Noed IF survivors don't clense, and if they don't they might cleanse it before killer even gets one hit. It's not a great perk.
And earned? I mean Sprint burst and such you get again and again in a game, same thing.
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Yes, I fail to see what Otz was playing at in that 'experiment'. The Killer does not earn it in his opinion based & his value set. Its important to remember, We don't all have the same value set and this feeds players who have complained about noed. Its what the want to hear, The Killer does not earn it = killer dont deserve it = Killer is unworthy. The logic is simple, yet its all based on a faulty premise. That being that 'Perks should be earned.'
I hope I get to see in a Video what Otz is playing at soon, because its bad if he feeds those anti-noed players and it emboldens them to write even more hate messages in post game chat and other places then its not cool.
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What a coincidence, just last night at work I randomly started thinking about doing this exact build on Bubba to see how effective it made camping.
As for my view on NOED, I don't like the current iteration. I think it could be made healthier, could be something simple such as requiring four unique hooks to activate. Killers that camp their first hook of the game no longer get any value from the perk, which I feel is the main reason players dislike the perk.
I also had an idea a long time ago, don't remember the specifics, but the idea was making NOED have an even stronger effect that only applied to survivors that actually rushed gens. Kinda like how I assume the upcoming Mori rework will play out, where you need to go out of your way to do something other than gens or suffer the consequences.
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Noed is a bullshit perk and there's a reason why it's a sign or at least being looked at - used by bad killers. the perk is so strong that it's being laughed at killers who use it, since they can't do anything without it. there's a reason this perk is being used in comp, it's just too strong and stupid and the killers in comp take it as an advantage cause they can't beat the god tier swfs in a normal way, usually.
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Noed can be cleansed immediately, at least well before the last gen pops.
As for reaping rewards for standing in a corner doing nothing... then those are some bad survivors. They just had all match to get gens and totems done with no threat or pressure.
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Thats why you are punished as a survivor if you fail to do the other objective. But when was the last time a killer used those perks? Not always. And the perks that are earned like bbq and pop survivors want it nerfed. So there's not satisfying those survivors.
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Hah, I just watched a bit of that video and closed the window as soon as he started getting into that bit that NoEd gives you things you didn't deserve or earn. Which, I also agree is just a dumb thing to say. But we all know how Behavior is so we all know what's gonna happen to NoEd soon enough...need to keep giving Survivor's more advantages so they're of course gonna do everything possible to make Killer's weaker.
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Noed is okay as it is. I don't use it as a killer at all because I'm not working towards endgame. I would like to have all 4 before that. The perk is okay for me because there is a risk that the totems are all gone before it is activated. Or it is found quickly.
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I also like the idea of having to hook each survivor once for noed to activate. It promotes healthy game play (like Devour). In exchange tho I think it needs to lose it hex status and just activate upon the last gen being completed.
Maybe for good measure give it a 2-3 min timer ^^
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Why do you think he has so many followers and subscribers. Don't bite the hand that feeds, just nod and smile and enjoy the cash rolling in.
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I love Otzdarva, but I'm tired of the community harping on NOED being earned or not, and I only ever use it on Clown for shits & giggles. NOED is fine, it can be cleansed and now more than ever do Survivors have multiple Perks AND Map items to cleanse Totems. Otzdarva even put up a video about how working with one person, practicing with each Perk by themselves they cleansed all the Totems really fast (granted it was KYF but point stands).
Gens can go by fast, seen situations where multiple ones can pop before the match even really begins. NOED, Blood Warden, Rancor and No Way Out are all about endgame snowballing, or securing the last kill or two. I don't see how Perks like these "aren't earned", esp if you're only using NOED. You sacrifice the majority of the main Match for a chance getting a dominating endgame or some Kills and lose a Perk slot hoping you can capitalize on the endgame, which is not going to be consistent. This Perk can easily backfire.
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What I don't like about NOED is that it skews the killrate in low ranks a lot and that gives the devs wrong information about the game balance. But a game when killer does nothing for the entire game and then 4K's just because survivor teams care about saving teammates more than maximizing escapes is not equal to a game where killer gets 4K because he actually did good. The game should not be balanced around the first case at all.
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It is somewhat frustrating that killers are expected to play with zero mistakes against 4 other (sometimes corridinated) players and have to earn most perk that are somewhat decent.
I play both sides so I like to think I am not super biased, but killers unfortunately get the short end of the stick when it comes to perks. Any decent perk is hindered by fat cool downs, requires u to fulfill a condition, or is a hex.
Survivor perks on the other hand... a lot of them activate after making a mistake. Or like with the exhaustion perks you just simply use them and gain a massive advantage. As for people arguing that there are survivor perks that require you to earn them... I say working on a gen or unhooking your teammate is not 'earning', just simply playing. When I see a perk that says 'be in a chase with the killer for 30 sec without being hit' I will then consider that an earned survivor perk ^^" I guess pebble perk (forget the name) is the closest 'i earned the right to use this perk' I can think off.
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That has been one of my suggestions as well, it would make it more fair. That way a 0 hook killer can’t get a couple free kills because of a poorly designed perk.
Another thought is removing the Exposed effect from NOED and buffing the speed increase to… say 6-7%?
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