Is DS too easy to abuse?
Please read below in full detail: (people seem not to be reading more than the title)
TL;DR: I was curious what people think about DS. I'm not complaining, I don't have an issue with it, and I now understand it better. you can all stop arguing now, but feel free to keep sharing and discussing.
also, does anyone know how to close this can of worms?
side note: can someone close this discussion? I think it's run its course.
I feel like it could use another caveat to make it so it's not a team-wide second chance.
I'm not angry or anything, but it has certainly lost me kills and sometimes games before.
I feel like maybe it should turn off if the killer downs someone else, would that still be fair?
edit: I'd like to specify that I don't personally have an issue with ds, I'm just curious what other people think. :)
abuse = as a game mechanic, take advantage.
Comments
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No it's fair and balanced. It's used to be OP. But since it's latest balance it's in a decent spot. Anyway if you think someone has DS either wait for it to go away, or eat it up.
36 -
id like to see it lose its self-healing restriction, if anything. its fairly well balanced-ish as it is right now.
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It's almost well balanced, it will become better if it deactivates on interactions with lockers and exit gates too. Right now it's indeed easy to abuse and is mostly used to bully the killer.
4 -
I think ds is in a good spot right now. Touching it anymore would make it worse.
Also can we stop with this word abuse. Using ds isn't abusing it.
30 -
DS is actually very well balaned right now. I'm perfectly fine with it.
8 -
Yes, in endgame.
DS and the exhaustion perk should be disabled after the last gen is done IMO.
4 -
Nope the new DS is fair and balance and i use to be a huge hater of DS. Yeah sometime you get hit by DS but most of the time its your fault or you just could not find anyone else.
1 -
Maybe go for different persons?
Like, you have 0 reason to actually be mad about DS. If the Survivor does anything to progress the game (which was the main point against DS), they lose it.
And if you get hit by a DS after almost a minute, this Survivor did nothing the whole time just to keep their DS.
17 -
No. Fine after change
5 -
It should turn off if you down multiple survivors.
Like killers don't down multiple survivors now.
It should turn off if you hook another survivor.
Like killers only get one hooked survivor at a time.
Arguments to nerf DS are getting pretty sad.
6 -
What about the end-game? It gives a guaranteed escape, especially when combined to other second chance perks.
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You can self heal with Inner Strength and if I am remembering correctly Second Wind without losing DS.
Just not with a Medkit/Selfcare.
Aka conditional self healing is allowed just not generic self healing.
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THIS< ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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I don't think it's fair for DS (or any perk really) to be deactivated over the actions of other players. Let's say the killer is Myers and he's in T3. A survivor comes unhooks you, Myers downs the unhooker and then proceeds to chase after you and downs you. Now your DS is already gone, because Myers had downed the unhooker before downing you. I don't see how that would make the perk better as it would just make it easier for killers to tunnel you out.
DS is fine now since they removed the ability for survivors to progress the game and have DS active. That was what made it really abuseable.
7 -
This is by far the most balanced DS has ever been, I'm not about to call it stupidly broken now. Most times I only see it if the unhooked person actively chases me down to get to use it, which at that point they're not being helpful to their team anyway so it's a win win for me.
3 -
inner strength working is partly why i think the self heal restriction is lame.
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Well... Obviously it is easy to abuse. You just do nothing for a minute or whatever, and voila. Get out of jail free card.
2 -
I think the only change DS could use is have it no longer deactivate when you heal yourself but make it deactivate when opening exit gates.
Healing yourself, an optional side objective to make yourself survive longer deactivates DS but opening the exit gate, the final step in progressing the game and escaping the trial does not? Like how
Also to people saying DS should deactivate when you get into a locker, vault pallets/windows or drop a pallet: that's never going to happen lol. Being able to force the killer to eat your DS is important in some instances otherwise they'll just leave us slugged on the ground to wait out DS. Is it that much to ask for DS to grant that ONE time chance to get out of a tunneling pickle? Apparently so
3 -
I'd like to reiterate I don't really have any beef with ds, I'm just curious about other opinions.
0 -
DS already got nerfed into the ground. Stop it. You can't even touch a totem, heal a teammate or yourself etc without deactivating it.
If anything it should get a buff.
No scratch marks for the duration of the stun so tunnelers (aka the only people that still get DS'd regularly) have a harder time tunneling.
15 -
Or you can pay attention to the healing done (if a survivor heals/gets healed then they don't have DS)
If you see someone come off of a hook but not looking to be healed chances are that they have DS
I would comment on Gen progression but survivors tend to save DS till the last second
1 -
thanks, that'll help me, I think! : D
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I seriously don't understand why people complain about it still
7 -
I wish we'd stop with all the words like abuse, toxic, shaming, etc. in general.
Since when is DBD serious enough to act like we need therapy for it? lmao
11 -
it’s still a free escape during end game collapse especially stack with borrow time and dead hard you literally can just walk out the gate with no fear of getting downed
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I see it as an anti tunneling perk. After the nerf I don't think it's that crutch anymore.
1 -
I don't think DS needs any changes - as it is right now - it neuters one survivor. It's a good gen/healing regression perk.
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Its fine as is now, lockers is a play survivors can make to force its use. Just like killers can slug to run out its timer.
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@Apollos you're right, I meant more like "overuse". I thought "abuse" may have been too harsh.
2 -
When i started to play i got DS almost every time, not beacuse i was exactly looking for the recent unhooked survivor but because sometimes you just where patroling gens and come across with him, and since it was an easy target i just went for it.
With time the only way now i got DS is when the gates are open and i have to try to get them down.
If i suspect someone has it i just down him and let him in the ground to buy some extra time, sometimes they manage to heal him and everything goes on and other times the timer pass and i can just walk and pick the surv for a hook.
I don't know if it is broken per se, but sometimes it kinda get frustating when you try to secure someone that you down near the exit just to get DS and he just ran away. Maybe they can reduce the duration to use it while the gates are open or if you get downed near the exit (rigth after the gates) you can simply can't use it, but to be honest i think that would be to much.
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No, don't punish survivors even more for completing their objective. You still got noed and blood warden.
2 -
Yes, it is complete horse crap. There is no killer equivalent that acts as a 'get out of jail for free' card. You have NOED but it can be countered with bones. There is no counter to DS, and at high ranks when you're playing a sweat group you need to remove people quickly and not play as a 'Killvivor' a.k.a. a streamer killer. Survivors can hook bomb you and get a BT hook save and then DS you if you try to take them out during EGC. There is no counter to that unless they don't cleanse NOED.
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No counter? Don't tunnel. Simple.
12 -
Were you playing before the DS nerf by any chance? I only ask because the DS before the nerf was meta - verrrry abused. I wasn't playing before the old old DS but from what I've heard about it, old old classic DS was very op.
To answer your question though, I think DS is currently fine where it is. It can only be abused now if someone deliberately doesn't do anything for the duration of the 60 seconds but most survivors don't do that. The perk MYC (Make Your Choice) has an almost DS timer built into it. So you use it to gauge the time used until DS is up. But definitely not as abusable as it used to be.
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DS is in a perfect spot right now ^^ Before it was super abused and I am happy they changed it. I don't think any further changes are required
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i dont know about op, but i was around for original ds, it was extremely abusable back then. litterally get away free card. it kind of amazes me how people still act like its like it was on release, honestly its very balanced now imo, if you want to keep your ds you have to avoid all work for the team.
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Same, it's literally quite perfect how it is. How it is currently is how DS should've always been like in the original design. In my opinion anyway.
2 -
The original DS had killers do a thing called dribbling right?? God it seemed rough to be a killer main back then.... Lol but yeah it's very balanced now I think.
2 -
yeah you could dribble a ds to hook assuming it wasnt too far away, ive played both sides since the inception. and yes it was very frustrating to play killer back then, even TL's had pallets and such. most definitley brutal.
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I don't see why so many killers want ds Nerf again when it was just nerfed like what around 5 months ago
P.s I don't even use this perk I find it way to situational to be any use to me
1 -
It's still easily abusable as expected. Sure, you can't do a gen or heal or do a totem. But you can flashlight save, body block, jump in a locker, open an exit, etc. If they'd only made it to where the killer hooking someone else deactivated DS, like we all asked for, this perk wouldn't be a problem.
1 -
DS has no business being 60 seconds. That's not tunneling anymore. You can chase and down a whole different person, then come back and smack this guy that's waving his balls in your face and try to pick him up, and DERP you get DS'd and you're left wondering, "When did I even hook this guy, I don't even remember, it's been so long."
I don't care if it used to be BETTER. Such arguments are fallacies in this discussion.
Currently, it exceeds its intended purpose of "anti-tunnel". It actually becomes a weapon after a point. And 60 seconds is absurd. Just slug them? Okay buddy. 60 seconds is 75% of a generator being solo'd with no items.
If you don't wanna be tunneled, don't be the weak link. If you ARE the weak link, accept it and die.
Run DS if BT somehow isn't enough time for you.
But if 60 seconds ALSO isn't enough time for you, it's WAY beyond the point of being a You Problem. At that point, I think you should probably see a doctor.
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DS could easily be 30 seconds, and it would serve its purpose still. And maybe at that point, its window for being weaponized would disappear.
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Yes, 100%. I've said this many times, didn't know it was a popular opinion.
1 -
It's unpopular. Survivors will fight tooth and nail to not have anything OP taken away, even if it wreaks havoc on the game balance. Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see this deactivation condition for DS.
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But you have to most times, and other times it's accidental or literally not tunneling because you just hooked someone else.
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If they wanna wait 60 seconds to not do gens what is the problem? It is perfectly balanced and I am a killer main.
3 -
And? A Perk should work all game, unless said otherwise.
I like it that Killers always point out that the game is not over when 5 Gens are done, but this also goes for DS - the game is still going on, no reason to disable DS in Endgame.
10 -
Nah, DS is fine now- as others have said, if anything I'd love to see it buffed. (Such as either taking away the self-healing caveat to give it more synergy with healing perks like Inner Strength or Secondwind, or giving it two charges/a little something extra after hitting DS to make it so that you have a better chance of breaking chase entirely.)
0 -
that's fair, I hadn't thought of it that way.
Thanks for your advice, all! :)
I'm going to disengage from this discussion since my question's been answered, but feel free to continue discussing!
3 -
no, but I've seen footage. thanks for your input!
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