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Either temporary disable Legion to do a rework or delete Legion from the game

UberMorpth
UberMorpth Member Posts: 97
in General Discussions
So far the reaction to Legion from the community since the pbt has been what was expected, a very bad killer argubly worse then Freddy, but since release Legion's become more then just bad, is become the most unfun killer to play or face against.

Not only as a survivor can't you really do much once they active Frenzy you either run and hope they run out or take in the [BAD WORD]. It gets worse when they break chase on purpose (aka look behind while walking backwards) to make the mend bar go lower so they can finish you off leaving survivors feel helpess and bored. 

On the other hand Legion's still truly a terrible killer since even playing in the intended way they are supposed to be played (not to mention Legion's perks don't fit with the power) Legion's just like playing Huntress, Hag or, Spirit without using there power, so most of the time Legion only can work is with a dumb as hell add-on (Frank's Mixtape that's soon to be base kit for some reason) or cheese the chase mechanics because you often can't reliably do chase's at 110%, and if your against any survivor or group who knows what to do (not heal, or group up) then your getting stomped.

Now I'm not exactly opposed to deleting Legion like ScottJund or others would say but I do agree currently Legion is the most poorly designed killer since it goes against everything that makes dbd fun, the other option I see outside of completely abandoning the killer is to disable Legion from being used so BHVR can do a massive rework (Like Freddy is getting).

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Comments

  • towhead
    towhead Member Posts: 61
    let's see those red tank 4k videos, alivebydeadight.
  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559
    edited December 2018

    @towhead said:
    let's see those red tank 4k videos, alivebydeadight.

    oh really, open my xbox account and watch them roll, also 4k does not mean they are good :]
    Its ToxicFengM1n

  • Shadoureon
    Shadoureon Member Posts: 493

    I hate playing against Legion. Lets give a killer the option to vault a pallet. Nothing on th emap is save for survivors to use anymore. Also lets punish people that can hide from killers by letting their dumbass teammates get hit and give the position of those hiding to the killer for free.

    Game isnt fun anymore with all this damn aura reading. Once I hit a 1000 hours im done.

  • lasombra1979
    lasombra1979 Member Posts: 1,142

    I would like to see a bit of tweaking to Legion, but as they stand right now, they are extremely playable and I find them to be fun. I have also went up against them and had a blast going against them. Some times I survive, some times I get hooked to death. Its the nature of the game. I see no reason to disable Legion.

  • akbays35
    akbays35 Member Posts: 1,123

    Legion is actually better than Clown just weaker than Spirit or anyone with an instant down. But he does have a low learning curve which makes him better imo. Lower level killers will have satisfaction with easier chases, but higher level killers will find him lacking.

  • UberMorpth
    UberMorpth Member Posts: 97
    alivebydeadight said:

    OH MY GOD, just play legion or gg, legion is a great killer, even in the higher ranks, it just takes skill to take survivors down in the higher ranks, I seem to play them find, maybe you are just bad as them and dont know any way to play them so you simply dont like playing them because you cant get kills

    Please my good sir tell me how I should play Legion, I seen how the others played Legion and is about as samey and dreadfully boring.
  • Iceman
    Iceman Member Posts: 1,457
    @UberMorpth

    There should be killers out there who can play around mechanics and game styles. The Spirit is able to stop survivors from looping. 

    The Legion will receive their buff, not everything going to be perfect on the first release. It is a working progress.

    I wish I could put The Legion as my profile picture to show how I much I love them lol.
  • FujinRaijin
    FujinRaijin Member Posts: 72

    @UberMorpth said:
    alivebydeadight said:

    OH MY GOD, just play legion or gg, legion is a great killer, even in the higher ranks, it just takes skill to take survivors down in the higher ranks, I seem to play them find, maybe you are just bad as them and dont know any way to play them so you simply dont like playing them because you cant get kills

    Please my good sir tell me how I should play Legion, I seen how the others played Legion and is about as samey and dreadfully boring.

    just do what Hexy does and moonwalk every chase :)

  • UberMorpth
    UberMorpth Member Posts: 97
    FujinRaijin said:

    @UberMorpth said:
    alivebydeadight said:

    OH MY GOD, just play legion or gg, legion is a great killer, even in the higher ranks, it just takes skill to take survivors down in the higher ranks, I seem to play them find, maybe you are just bad as them and dont know any way to play them so you simply dont like playing them because you cant get kills

    Please my good sir tell me how I should play Legion, I seen how the others played Legion and is about as samey and dreadfully boring.

    just do what Hexy does and moonwalk every chase :)

    Easy man, just cheese the game to win with a bad killer 4Head
  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @UberMorpth said:
    alivebydeadight said:

    OH MY GOD, just play legion or gg, legion is a great killer, even in the higher ranks, it just takes skill to take survivors down in the higher ranks, I seem to play them find, maybe you are just bad as them and dont know any way to play them so you simply dont like playing them because you cant get kills

    Please my good sir tell me how I should play Legion, I seen how the others played Legion and is about as samey and dreadfully boring.

    ahm, exactly what I told orion, "okay, legion is a killer that is strong against big groups of survivors, ruin is a powerful perk on legion so that will help, when you land a hit with legion and no other survivor is nearby, try to hit them again or go in front of them to block off there path to take them down, with legions ability to vault pallets you can apply great pressure inside of the chase, blood hound is another powerful perk with legion with the inability to see scratch marks when inside off feral frenzy, allowing you to track survivors inside of the feral frenzy easily, STBFL is amazing on them due to multi hit capability, 4 perk can be anything but bbq due to poor movement speed"

  • easi_solstice
    easi_solstice Member Posts: 32

    @Michiko said:
    When someone gives the Devs an ultimatum of THEIR game....

    I know right imagine giving constructive criticism I mean who would complain about something on a game they like. Unheard of

  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @easi_solstice said:

    @Michiko said:
    When someone gives the Devs an ultimatum of THEIR game....

    I know right imagine giving constructive criticism I mean who would complain about something on a game they like. Unheard of

    what is that picture XD

  • easi_solstice
    easi_solstice Member Posts: 32

    what is that picture XD

    It's someone's derp emote on twitch.

  • BigBubs
    BigBubs Member Posts: 1,131

    YEAH!
    DELETE LEGION AND GIVE EVERYONE WHO BOUGHT HIM THEIR MONEY BACK!
    Lol.

  • alivebydeadight
    alivebydeadight Member Posts: 1,559

    @not_Queen said:
    Hello @UberMorpth !

    Sorry to hear The Legion isn't for you!

    We will not disable our newest killer, this is not the path we want to take for balancing content.

    We are aware of the feedback we received from the Community on the new content and we aim to improve the experience for everyone. Our learnings from past experiences have for consequence that we are not rushing changes right after a release anymore, so adjustments might take a bit more time.

    If you are interested in The Legion, we discussed upcoming adjustments and power creation during the last livestream.:

    R.I.P, cannot see the picture

  • Michiko
    Michiko Member Posts: 623
    Orion said:

    @Michiko said:
    Constructive criticism and an ultimatum are two different things. Nice try though

    In my experience, people who complain that they're being reprimanded for "constructive criticism" have never given constructive criticism. It's always insults, orders, ultimatums, etc..

    Pretty much. 
  • Orion
    Orion Member Posts: 21,675

    OP, I'll gladly support your idea to delete the Legion if you personally refund everyone who bought the DLC. I'd also support your idea to disable the Legion if you were to pay everyone who bought the DLC €1 for every hour they could've spent playing the Legion.

  • lasombra1979
    lasombra1979 Member Posts: 1,142

    @Orion said:
    OP, I'll gladly support your idea to delete the Legion if you personally refund everyone who bought the DLC. I'd also support your idea to disable the Legion if you were to pay everyone who bought the DLC €1 for every hour they could've spent playing the Legion.

    Can we have the OP pay us and we get to keep the DLC? I like that option the most

  • The_Crusader
    The_Crusader Member Posts: 3,688
    The only problem that actually bugs me is how he can tunnel you down after causing deep wounds, and due to how chases work you can't defend yourself.

    For example..

    - Legion hits you and causes deep wounds, he then hits you again to further decrease the timer.

    - You run away as far as you can, it seems quiet so you start to mend. The timer reaches 1% while mending.

    - He comes along, now if you try to run you go down because the game doesn't consider it a chase.

    That's the part that is unfair. The timer is meant to pause while he's after you but it doesn't always work. Something about that needs to change.
  • purebalance
    purebalance Member Posts: 661

    Legion is like Nurse in that low skill players will not play him well. The problem is that unlike Nurse who has a similar skill cap, your rewards for reaching that skill cap are not even remotely the same. Rank 1 killers who can get 4k with him with 3+ gens up can probably do the same with Freddy and LF and yet Freddy is getting a rework. A lot of them are saying he's worse than Freddy even with the pre launch tweaks.

  • RotBb
    RotBb Member Posts: 396
    towhead said:
    let's see those red tank 4k videos, alivebydeadight.
    99.999% of Tru1al3nt’s legion games?
  • Ihatelife
    Ihatelife Member Posts: 5,069
    edited December 2018

    As I said before, legion is very good at farming, pipping without killing anybody, wasting the time of survivors, tunneling. He needs at least Frank's mix tape to be a real threat.

  • Speshul_Kitten
    Speshul_Kitten Member Posts: 1,861
    Just cause you suck at legion doesn’t mean everyone else does too
  • AmorePrincess
    AmorePrincess Member Posts: 220
    edited December 2018
    No thanks. I love my Frankie, and he is all I play atm. Some players will hate them, and some players actually learn and enjoy playing legion. I am rank 3 now, and learn more and more. Love that they are different from other killers, and I get 3k or 4k every time. And no, I do not tunnel or camp, because that has never been my playstyle, nor will it ever be. I have more precious things to do than watch someone hang. Not my idea of a fun game. (Not attacking people who does, because we all do what works for ourselves, just saying I dont like it)

    I agree, there can be some changes here and there, but I would never want it deleted.

    And, as a survivor, there are counterplays, you can learn many things by watching different streamers on twitch or youtube. Thats how I learn and improve. And basically, a chase with legion takes no longer or shorter than a chase with most other killers, if you know what you are doing. 

    As most say when either side is being buffed or nerfed, adapt. 
  • Iceman
    Iceman Member Posts: 1,457
    WalterWh1te said:

    @not_Queen

    Lets get some things straight here:

    A few of your colleagues expressed concerns during development and wanted his power to be redesigned.

    People that tested Prerelease expressed the same concerns about an unfun gaming experience.

    The Feedback you got during the PTB included the same problems (no counterplay against frenzy attacks, designed to tunnel one player).

    The Steam Chart Numbers after the Spirit Midchapter Patch are devastating.

    "Our learnings from past experiences have for consequence that we are not rushing changes right after a release anymore, so adjustments might take a bit more time."
    This sounds like mockery and an excuse for BHVR because you a) didn't listen to feedback in the first place and b) are not able to redesign him in a appropriate timeframe.

    The matchmaking times are a result of the balance decisions you made over the past month.

    A lot of people i know drew their personal consequences and either won't play survivor at all or just DC against every single Legion.

    You clearly do not understand how developing works, just because you don’t see the changes that was ask by the community during the PTB does not mean that the developers are not listening. It takes time for things to be implemented in the game. 
  • Bryan
    Bryan Member Posts: 16
    edited December 2018

    IMO, there are 3 type of Legions players.
    1) "Normal Legion"-The one that the devs were thinking all would play like, hit 1 or 2 different people with his power at most and chase a person like a normal M1 killer. These are the players that get rip-apart, gen rush and call him the weakest killer in the game. (by this playstyle, the Legion is)

    2) "Break Chase/Moonwalk Legion"-They look down, up or turn around players and walk backwards. They will hit you 1 or 2 times in his power but follow the blood/marks until they get close to hit you normally or until your bar goes down. Try to mend? Sorry he will walk into you and hit you with normal M1 if you do that. Stay by pallets, windows when mending? Will not manner, Legion will just break/hop over and resume the "fake" chase.

    3) "Tunneling Legion"-The Tunnel Legion players that will like most Legions, respect pallets but more then normal, use the power to vault over pallets and stuff and if you try to loop (abuse his respect by looping the same pallet again) with go to what I said about the "Break Chase Legion" or will in the middle of the loop active the power when you are on the other side of the pallet so they can hit you with his power to down you and you cant get back to the pallet in time. His addon "Frank's Mixtap" makes the tunnel take less time to do this annoying unfun method. I do see gens getting done with tunneling Legions but the person being chase will go down and you just take turns on the hook until you all go down or have a team that does gens and some get out. But how fun of a match is that? The chase is a post to be the best part of the game but others will tell you facing this Legion, they would rather sit on gens. How fast you will go down is by just how well the tunnel Legion is timing his power to active on a loop.

    There is always a problem with killers for rank 16-20s vs rank 1-8s ect, makes Legion the most annoying unfun on both sides and brain dead killer. I don't think I ever seen a killer that can be called weak but broken at the same time. But it happened. He needs a bad rework. His power in a way needs to be redone all together like Freddy. How to get into/get out of chases needs a rework as well Go to more popular DBD Youtubers/Twitch Streamers (and they will tell you he unfun, broken and boring killer to play/face.) It all comes down to how good is the player and playstyle. That is what it comes down to. Overall, the power is the center of the problem. If this stays how it is I bet Legion wins one time on Xbox or PS4 next DBD tournament. PC will still be Nurse. RIP the Billy players :(

  • Bravo0413
    Bravo0413 Member Posts: 3,647
    alivebydeadight said:

    OH MY GOD, just play legion or gg, legion is a great killer, even in the higher ranks, it just takes skill to take survivors down in the higher ranks, I seem to play them find, maybe you are just bad as them and dont know any way to play them so you simply dont like playing them because you cant get kills

    This is not even the case.. NOBODY is saying that they can't kill consistently... it's the fact that they are so horribly designed they suck the fun right out of the game!! The cheese is horrible and you have to reply on how to counter it? Please enlighten us! Tell us almighty defender of the legion the most poorly designed killer ever... how do you avoid the cheese and how is it okay and fun in the game!... do I just attempt to trigger the chase by running infront of the killer? Really? Because at that point they can just smack you down!... I don't understand how anyone can defend this killer when its clearly not ready to be in the game...
  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Member Posts: 23

    tbh just ignore bhvr fans, the legion is a bad killer and a wasted potential on a great concept. Don't believe me?? check player stats since release. 13-15k players since new update, and for updates it used to peak 54k.
    This devs only care about money, they don't think outside the box, like for instance the only popular asymmetrical mp is theirs or like the game has been the same since release. I don't see the need of these forums tbh, they don't even listen to their community

  • Incarnate
    Incarnate Member Posts: 677

    @not_Queen - The PTB clearly indicated that the legion was NOT ready for release, and yet BHVR goes ahead with its release, it would've been a lot better to wait with releasing it, because now we're going to have to deal with a broken killer that has no real counterplay to it, and we're going to wait a really long time before it's even somewhere near being just slightly reasonable.

    It's not a matter of the legion not being for everyone, but a matter of it NOT being balanced and not having any real counterplay to it, seriously when so many people express their concerns BHVR really should not release it until it's ready, because it releasing content thats not ready and not balanced, will wreck all sorts of havoc to the game's balance.

  • Kurisu
    Kurisu Member Posts: 23

    @Incarnate said:
    @not_Queen - The PTB clearly indicated that the legion was NOT ready for release, and yet BHVR goes ahead with its release, it would've been a lot better to wait with releasing it, because now we're going to have to deal with a broken killer that has no real counterplay to it, and we're going to wait a really long time before it's even somewhere near being just slightly reasonable.

    It's not a matter of the legion not being for everyone, but a matter of it NOT being balanced and not having any real counterplay to it, seriously when so many people express their concerns BHVR really should not release it until it's ready, because it releasing content thats not ready and not balanced, will wreck all sorts of havoc to the game's balance.

    Yeah like what's the actual purpose of PTB, delaying updates 2 weeks?? come on bhvr, start listening to your community or this new discord game will take over lol

  • Onionthing
    Onionthing Member Posts: 469

    Legion is growing on me ... I dont feel as pressured to 4k with Legion (Even though im getting them) because just using my power, tracking and fooling around seems to pip me just fine. Honestly Legion is the lowest stress killer so far. That was originally reserved for doctor or clown, but Legion is taking my third most loved killer.

  • Cardgrey
    Cardgrey Member Posts: 1,454

    @Bryan said:
    IMO, there are 3 type of Legions players.
    1) "Normal Legion"-The one that the devs were thinking all would play like, hit 1 or 2 different people with his power at most and chase a person like a normal M1 killer. These are the players that get rip-apart, gen rush and call him the weakest killer in the game. (by this playstyle, the Legion is)

    2) "Break Chase/Moonwalk Legion"-They look down, up or turn around players and walk backwards. They will hit you 1 or 2 times in his power but follow the blood/marks until they get close to hit you normally or until your bar goes down. Try to mend? Sorry he will walk into you and hit you with normal M1 if you do that. Stay by pallets, windows when mending? Will not manner, Legion will just break/hop over and resume the "fake" chase.

    3) "Tunneling Legion"-The Tunnel Legion players that will like most Legions, respect pallets but more then normal, use the power to vault over pallets and stuff and if you try to loop (abuse his respect by looping the same pallet again) with go to what I said about the "Break Chase Legion" or will in the middle of the loop active the power when you are on the other side of the pallet so they can hit you with his power to down you and you cant get back to the pallet in time. His addon "Frank's Mixtap" makes the tunnel take less time to do this annoying unfun method. I do see gens getting done with tunneling Legions but the person being chase will go down and you just take turns on the hook until you all go down or have a team that does gens and some get out. But how fun of a match is that? The chase is a post to be the best part of the game but others will tell you facing this Legion, they would rather sit on gens. How fast you will go down is by just how well the tunnel Legion is timing his power to active on a loop.

    There is always a problem with killers for rank 16-20s vs rank 1-8s ect, makes Legion the most annoying unfun on both sides and brain dead killer. I don't think I ever seen a killer that can be called weak but broken at the same time. But it happened. He needs a bad rework. His power in a way needs to be redone all together like Freddy. How to get into/get out of chases needs a rework as well Go to more popular DBD Youtubers/Twitch Streamers (and they will tell you he unfun, broken and boring killer to play/face.) It all comes down to how good is the player and playstyle. That is what it comes down to. Overall, the power is the center of the problem. If this stays how it is I bet Legion wins one time on Xbox or PS4 next DBD tournament. PC will still be Nurse. RIP the Billy players :(

    O.o just cause someone’s popular doesn’t mean what they say means anything thou... and they don’t speak for me.
    And there not always right....

  • AshleyWB
    AshleyWB Member Posts: 4,061
    I can only 4k as legion if I play really dirty. That's a sign that he's playable even though he needs a rework of some kind. He will stay and rightly so but again, buff him a little bit at a time.
  • Someissues
    Someissues Member Posts: 1,604

    I really like Legion as well, but if you are not playing the Cheese strat hes really weak by default. Go hit everyone in Frenzy? Sry but you are fighting against bad survivors, decent survivors never group up together, and it could you lead to missing chases if you do that since they will be on the other side of the map

  • Dustbin
    Dustbin Member Posts: 6
    edited December 2018

    I love legion in theory, and especially their theme, but in reality they're awful for gameplay on both sides.

    Legions power takes gameplay down to an incredibly boring and raw level of do gens or mend for survivors, there's no chasing, there's no looping, do gens and get out. And for Legion it's either W+M1 with frank's tape for completely free loop ignoring downs, which is pretty boring, or non frank's tape legion who is either utterly useless because downing takes so long, or you're moonwalking and floorwatching, which is also really boring gameplay for everyone involved.

    Legion doesn't need buffs or nerfs, legion needs the fact that their power gets rid of half the core gameplay addressing.

  • Well_Placed_HexTotem
    Well_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 824
    My issues with Legion when playing survivor are these:

    1. Idiot teammates who bring them to you, then they get hit in Frenzy and now Legion knows your location.

    2. Legion is “chasing” you but is not really in a chase with you. So your mend bar is dropping, but you can’t stop and mend because he’s actually chasing you. This always happens to me when there is nothing around to use to try and lose Legion, not that it matters anyway because once you lose them you drop down from not mending and they know your location.

    As killer, my only issue is same as Fred... you’re just helpless in a lot of situations. But it’s a fun killer to play, unlike Fred.
  • GodDamn_Angela
    GodDamn_Angela Member Posts: 2,213

    @alivebydeadight said:
    ahm, exactly what I told orion, "okay, legion is a killer that is strong against big groups of survivors, ruin is a powerful perk on legion so that will help, when you land a hit with legion and no other survivor is nearby, try to hit them again or go in front of them to block off there path to take them down, with legions ability to vault pallets you can apply great pressure inside of the chase, blood hound is another powerful perk with legion with the inability to see scratch marks when inside off feral frenzy, allowing you to track survivors inside of the feral frenzy easily, STBFL is amazing on them due to multi hit capability, 4 perk can be anything but bbq due to poor movement speed"

    Alright let's just break this down just a little.

    1. Ruin is strong on every killer. So this is a moot point.
    2. Bodyblocking any half decent Survivor with Legion is next to impossible. No one is going to let you run past them, then stun in front of them, and then let you hit them. This is absurd.
    3. STBFL on Legion might be a good idea, mainly because they can't kill anyone so the Obsession will always be alive.
    4. More than 75% of the perks are basically useless on Legion, including any "exposed" perks. But yeah, sure, the 4th perk can be anything since nothing available will really help them out.
    5. BBQ could be taken for BP farm, but Legion rarely gets hooks so I agree it shouldn't be taken.
  • Animalheadskull
    Animalheadskull Member Posts: 478
    I remember back when I first started playing the game in January hearing about a ghostface killer that could vault pallets and windows. Seem like everyone thought it was a good idea at the time. I really feel that the devs of this game really care about their game and what the fans want. Yea some stuff needs to be changed on them, but the devs can't snap their fingers and make it happen instantly. I've seen content creators make stupid bad plays just to get their point across of how weak he is, or un fun.