Increase Base Regression.
It's kinda silly that as killer you can't afford to waste a single second, but running and kicking a gen while wasting a lot of time, doesn't do anything without Pop.. It's 0.25 charges / second. Survivors repair at 1 / sec, PER survivor (excluding modifiers like working on the same gen with or without prove thyself, resilience, etc)
Not only that, a survivor can tap a gen at no real cost to themselves often even while in chase.
This is a big part of why you see the same 4 killers with the same 6 perks. Half those perks are just bandaids for the early game or gens getting done in your face / despite injuring and hooking.
Survivors can repair while injured, even faster with some perks, items, etc. Survivors if they're half decent will repair even while a survivor or two is on the hook, knowing they can finish it because odds are they're already over halfway and they have a solid minute before second stage and besides, you need 12 hooks to their 5 gens outside of slug snowballs or tunnelling (in this context, going after the same 2 survivors to eliminate one early while hopefully avoiding the ubiquitous DS/Unbreakable.)
You almost automatically lose against good survivors that know how long stuff takes (hook states, etc) that aren't excessively altruistic if you're playing a killer that isn't one of the really mobile ones. This is why competitive DBD (not that I play it) enforces so many limitations on survivors because otherwise it would literally be an auto win every time.
Even with decent pressure (ie, a survivor is hooked, 2 more are injured, etc..) you're only really ever keeping 2 survivors busy at a time, maybe 3 while one is in chase, one is on hook, and one eventually rescues. Ideally chasing the rescuer so someone that was on a gen is forced off it without you having to cross the map to them - which obviously isn't fun for survivors either. Sure you could tunnel a person out so it's easier to keep pressure up but we can agree that's not necessarily fun for anyone and there are a bunch of perks survivors have to specifically combat tunneling, slugging, etc..
I think generators should regress at a speed equal to a single survivor working on them - 1 charge / second. I'm sick of seeing so many bandaid perks come out, get nerfed, and then everyone goes back to playing the same 5 killers with the same few perks because after dinner time that's the only way you even get to play lol. I would much rather see the absolutely busted base mechanics fixed instead of being forced to run the same couple perks (Typically Ruin + Undying + Tinkerer or Corrupt + Pop + Tinkerer depending on how mobile your killer is)
This would also make other perks.. actually do something, part of the issue with the above perks is the competition as far as regression perks go is.. nonexistant. Most perks either have absolutely bonkers cooldowns like Oppression which is literally just kick 3 gens and throw an overcharge in there or they have cooldowns on top of a tonne of conditions/limitations or wasted time like Surge and Eruption, or they literally help survivors lol like Dying Light, or have basically no impact like Thana outside of like 3 killers.
It feels absolutely terrible to play killer half the time because even if you're constantly hooking people, there's always 1 or 2 people just holding m1 and there's not really anything you can do about it outside of the super mobile killers leading to the stale meta on both sides of the fence that isn't just driving killers away, it's making the game super boring for survivors because it's the same 5 killers with the same perks who are just as sick of it as the survivors all running BT, DS, DH, Unbreakable or some combination.
EDIT: (sorry this turned into a wall of text)
TDLR: Just make regression actually do something. 0.25c/sec isn't even worth the time it took to walk over to that gen and kick it, and makes the majority of regression perks have basically no impact since any survivor stealthed or even mid chase can just tap it. Nevermind the insane number of options survivors have to disable your pressure. Just make base regression equal to a single survivor working on a single gen with no other modifiers.
1 charge per second.
Thanks for taking the time to read.
Comments
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While I agree that base regression is so little that it doesn't make it worth it to kick gens most of the time, simply increasing base regression could cause problems for other methods of triggering regression, such as Surge, Eruptions, Oppression, etc. Plus when combined with Pop's 25% instant regression, just 30 or so seconds of pressure could completely deplete that generator.
Something a bit more graduated would be better I think:
- Kicking a generator applies a % of regression equal to the number of generators yet to be repaired. e.g. at the start of the game, kicking a gen has 5% instant regression, and at the last gen, 1% instant regression.
- The first 15 seconds of regression after kicking is at .5c/s, after 15s it slows to .25c/s. (basically Ruin speed for first 15s)
This provides more up-front regression, and instantly rewards you for the kicking action, and would do two things to player behaviour:
- Survivors would be incentivised to halt regression within 15 seconds.
- Killers would be incentivised to 'guard' a gen for 15s, and if a survivor jumps back on it to 'tap' it, then they get to kick it again for more instant regression.
Which I feel would open up more strategic gen defence plays, and add more risk/reward elements to it.
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It would make more sense to always have a 5% instant regression penalty when kicking a generator and to bump up the regression rate to 150% at base. It wouldn't be too strong either since the counterplay would be to spread out on generators.
Ruin would still be a great perk and would be a sort of extension to the killer's abilities.
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I disagree that regressing a gen to zero quickly is a bad thing or OP At the end of the day, it takes no time for a survivor to stop it and there's going to be more of them than you. Most of these perks have little to no impact as is so buffing regression doesn't really make them "problems" it just makes them useable. Right now they aren't outside of specific killers or against survivors that haven't even learned the game yet.
Killers need the tools to delay gens beyond just tunneling or slugging and snowballing (ie via instadowns against dumb survivors that don't spread out at all which shouldn't be the focus of balance anyway).
The sheer number of perks and resources survivors have to remove pressure and completely remove entire strategies/tools of the killer far outweighs the the difference making base regression go from 0.25 to 1 per second. This is all without even mentioning map balance like pallets, or sheer size that all the gens pop before you can even get across the map a couple times.
It's hilarious that you're supposed to patrol gens to find survivors and kick them and that's like the core mechanic if you're outside of a chase and it's just completely broken lol. Most killers can't patrol, they need to initiate chases asap. Most regression perks outside of the above 2 combos won't do absolutely jack against any survivor just coming by and tapping the gen or getting back on it while you chase someone else even right next to their gen lol.
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The reason why I think having the instant regression scale with number of gens, is that it could be very oppressive in a 3 gen situation. Survivors are rightfully trying to get back on gens as quickly as possible, and if you could very quickly kick a gen 3-4 times in quick succession due to survivors tapping them, it's basically a free Pop Goes The Weasel.
1% at a 3 gen scenario would still be enough to warrant kicking a gen without a kick perk I feel.
Plus this way provides more gen pressure in the early game, which is where you really want most of your gen pressure. You want to delay those first couple gens being repaired for as long as possible.
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Yea, the forum deleted my reply which sucks but anyway the killer is almost always going to be outnumbered, and it takes no time at all for any survivor to stop regression - they can even repair while you chase their buddy next to the gen they're on completely undoing whatever 2-25 charges of regression might've happened due to you kicking or perks taking effect.
Kicking a gen should at bare minimum make up for the time you spent going there to kick it, if not some of the time spent in chase / hooking and stuff. Perks should enhance this, not be a basic requirement to even get a chance to play as killer (or the vast majority of them anyway)
3 Gens absolutely should be oppressive, we can't keep coddling survivors like they're brain dead animals that can't do anything other than hold m1. You should have to put at least some bare minimum of thought into the game like picking what gens to do with some strategic value (ie breaking the 3 gen, even if only one gen is far from a pair instead of all 3 being super spread out)
If you're in a 3 gen it's not like you have no options either, the killer for the most part can only chase one survivor at a time, and that means whoever isn't in chase is immediately repairing. Even 30 seconds of chase or eating like 2 pallets is enough for 2 survivors to basically finish a gen so if you go to chase someone else either because they're hooked or too good at looping the game is over either way whether everyone gets out, or even just 2 people get out by going to opposite exit gates forcing the killer to waste time searching, etc.. until one is open and people leave.
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I disagree, I think that 1% would be way too little and I think that the end game should be more intense. The killer should be at their strongest towards the end of a match and I think my idea would work well. A 3 gen scenario can be avoided as long as the survivors pay attention.
I also think that early game generators should go by quicker since it gives survivors a chance to split up on generators, I think that it is okay if the survivors complete 2 generators within 4-5 minutes of a game because that is expected at the early stages of a match.
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I mean 2-3 gens are done within 60-90 seconds even without perks/items; usually before you can even cross the map and get your first down. You either snowball, stall, or lose. People seem to forget that the vast majority of killers are basically powerless against survivors just spreading wide, and having to spend 2-3 of your perks just to play the game shouldn't be the accepted standard. Having a 3 gen be slightly stronger just because of base regression is a non-issue, for reasons stated a few times in previous replies. It's almost zero effort on a survivor's part to stop regression and undo any that was done anyway.
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Survivors complete 2 generators within 1 minute of the game, not 4-5. It's most definitely the early game that needs slowing down. Games snowball one way or the other, so the early game is where it counts. Lose 2 gens in a minute and you've probably lost the match.
3 gens can't be too oppressive, otherwise you get a stalemate, survivors refuse to do gens, then you or they end up holding the game hostage.
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Never have I ever met a discussion post on a controversial topic actually come to an agreement and have a civil discussion. Kudos to you guys, really.
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3 Gens need to be oppressive, that being said, you can just leave the 3-gen and heal/reset ad infinitum and rotate out whoever needs to waste the killer's time as even 15 seconds worth of chase at a time is more than enough for the remaining survivor or two to make progress on those gens, reset, etc. Yeah it's annoying particularly depending on which killer you're on, but you're not blameless for ending up in that situation in the first place.
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