Wraith should not have collision when cloaked.
With the new speed buffs, Wraiths have been able to block pallets, windows and gates without ANY repercussion whatsoever.
The outrun ANY survivor by miles and sometimes become so toxic to play against it's not even funny at this point.
I believe Wraiths should NOT have any collisions when they're in stealth form. This'll make them become more vulnerable and also keep their speed boosts reasonable.
Comments
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then walk around him?
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I thought the point was to body block them otherwise you more or less have to respect everything and that would make him garbage.
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The only way to balance it would be he can pass though pallets then otherwise he’d be bonked then flashlight by players
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So encourage more hit & run playstyles? No thanks, his chase is already average.
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That's a common feature of ALL killers.
He has a massive speed boost when he uncloaks. What do you mean his chases are average.
Preventing him from body blocking is the point here. His chases aren't going to be any different.
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The best he could do is counter the legendary W meta, and counterloop unsafe tiles.
You should have time to make it to a window or pallet before he uncloaks to get that last hit on you. He can't really use the speed boost to his advantage in shack, LT walls, or jungle gyms.
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Do you remember how bad wraith was before windstorm? stop complaining when survivors can get BNP's and finish gens in 20 seconds
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His speedboost after uncloaking is most of the time useless in a chase. Its a really weak chase power. If you want to know how to loop wraith, then there are plenty of videos. You could watch Otzdarvas yesterday stream, where he tries to find the best build for every killer. Just do the same as the survivor he plays against and every wraith will suffer.
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Great logic there.
Instead of actually finding a way to balance the game, you advise people to find a way around it.
Plenty of streamers, professional DBD players and other proficient players continuously stated that Wraith is A and up when it comes to tier and potential.
I have no problem of him staying there, but he's the ONLY killer to move faster than a survivor and outrun them to a pallet. If he has that advantage, at least you need to give him some disadvantages to compensate. That was my initial argument.
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I mean wraiths can annoy me sometimes but you're acting like he is unbalanced and that's really not the case lol.
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You have really great logic there. If one killer can do something others cant, remove it? Why do we have different killer then? Bodyblocking a pallet is not op and you can counter it. How is that badly balanced?
"Plenty of streamers, professional DBD players and other proficient players continuously stated that Wraith is A and up when it comes to tier and potential."
Show me proof. If that would be correct, why does nobody of this professional players use wraith in a tournament? Wraith as low a tier is a stretch and even then he doesnt need a nerf.
You want disadvantages for wraith? He is a normal m1-killer in most loops, weak against swf, can be lightburned.
I only advise people to learn the counterplay for a killer (what they should do with every killer) and after that they can argue whether something is op.
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See, this is why I commented on your logic.
If a killer is the only killer that is able to do something the rest 99% of the roster can not do then yes, of course it should be looked at. Why would you NOT want consistency? What, to feel special when you play Wraith? GTFO.
And just becuz he's A, doesn't mean he's tournament worthy. Hell, there's Spirit, Nurse and Blight who are MILES better, why on earth would they choose Wraith to win a competition? Silly logic there.
You also mention his disadvantages: being a M1 Killer, weak against SWFs and can be lightburned. Let's take a look at these 1 by 1 shall we?
Being a M1 killer - Doesn't mean jack %#$^. Trapper is M1, so is Shape, Doctor, Legion, Clown & Ghostface and they're not terrible. Average, but not terrible like the Trickster (whose not a M1 killer BTW).
Weak against SWFs - FFS. This argument is always with Killer protectors and sympathists. Listen, SWFs are NOT the majority of the DBD playerbase. I believe it was lower than 5% the last time I checked. It's mostly solos or duos, and I doubt they're as good as a 3 man or 4 man SWFs. So stop complaining about a niche-as player group who you rarely come across with.
He can be lightburned - A terrible, not to mention unlettered argument that also applies to the Hag. NOBODY brings a flashlight knowing who the killer is. If we were able to do that, of course this argument would make sense, but the truth of the matter is, it's not. Besides, most of the time survivors bring medkits instead of flashlights. Hag enthusiasts also argue that flashlights counter Hag traps, but like your argument, it's a fallacy and needs to be fact checked. Nobody is going to cross their fingers when opening a chest hoping for a flashlight in case they didn't bring one and the killer "happens" to be Wraith or Hag. That's just stupid.
And judging by your list of disadvantages, he's not bad at all lol. Just reinforces my argument, thankfully.
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So you dont like the mind games of invisible Wraith trying to force you out into a bad situation?
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If there is a way around it then it's not that imbalanced right.
You know spirit can do this too? You just never see it cause unlike wraith she instantly swings and hits you.
I just realised the only killer with a speedboost that can't do this cause they lose their collision during cooldown is Legion. They should be able to do this too
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What is it with all these salty Wraith posts?
He's not even good enough to warrant changes. If he bodyblocks your vault, he outplayed you.
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It's kinda funny, really. In the past Wraith was bottom of the barrell. Trash-tier killer. Needs addons to even be playable.
Now he's got people asking for arbitrary nerfs to his basekit just for the sin of being a good killer.
Started from the bottom, now we're here. You havent truly made it til you get calls for your nerf on the forums.
The only killer who can use their power to prevent you from getting to the pallet. Except for Trapper, Hillbilly, Nurse, Hag, Doctor, Bubba, Clown, Spirit (Who actually has an easier time doing so BECAUSE she has no collision), Legion, Demo, Oni, Blight, Twins, and PInhead.
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According to everyone who is anyone, there's a work around for EVERYthing. Nurse? Bait her blinks.
Spirit? Use Iron Will.
Blight? Use Dead Hard.
Like as if those cancel out their strengths and they all of a sudden become manageable. Why do people still complain then? hmmm?
Well that's because Sonzaishinai, they don't cancel each other out. They alleviate certain things, but they are not an easy, one-button solution.
Coming back to my point, Wraiths are fine. I don't mind their speed boosts. But the fact that they can body block just about ANYTHING is what irks me.
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Your logic is flawed. Should we remove long-range-hits bc only huntress can do it? Or was billys one-shot bad and suddenly when myers got introduced it was okay? Killer power should do different things. So its good if a power allows a different playstyle. But to be fair you can run past a survivor and block the pallet with every movement ability. Legions frenzy, Billys chainsaw, Blights rush, Spirits phase etc. But instead of doing that you can just attack the survivor directly, what makes it a straight upgrade compared to wraiths power. Well, except legion, who cant down with it.
"Being an m1-killer is not terrible." And you list some of the weakest killer in the game. Trickster is since his buff clearly stronger than trapper and myers. He is average, not them. Trapper is the weakest killer in the game. If you cant see why m1-killer struggle, you have probably less than 200 hours.
Im not complaining about swf. And true solos matches are roughly 50%. The point is still that a stealth killer is not as strong when you know where he is.
And sure lightburn is not the strongest disadvantage, when nobody brings a flashlight. I can still mention it. It was never my intention to say that this kills him.
But i see whats the problem. If you dont see what problem being an m1-killer is than you are probably new. And its true that wraith is a good noobstomper. If you dont want to listen to my arguments and just call them silly, so be it. With the new mmr i get teammates, who know how to play against wraith, so its not my problem. But i never saw wraiths in my 20 matches since mmr anyway.
So whatever, believe what you want and have fun.
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People complain about things cause they don't want to take the effort to actually work to counter something.
You do realise you're playing a multiplayer game right? There should never be a easy one-button solution
Why on earth would anyone play wraith if there was a easy one-button solution to his power.
That answer just shows this is a you being lazy problem not a balance one.
If you want to win effortlessly against an opponent that never stood a chance then you can play single player games on easy settings. In multiplayer games the opponent is going to try to win.
Wraith's 3 second uncloak time is more then enough to reach the further side of loop if you saw the bodyblock coming. At that point it's another case of who reads who best.
There are some cases where the complaints are valid. Most are like this one where it's a mad cause bad case
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You are all over the place. Can't really grasp your points thoroughly...
And FYI, I'm exactly at 674 hours, so I think I know what I'm talking about.
M1 killers are NOT terrible. You picked two killers out of 5+ examples I provided. That in and of itself proves that not ALL M1 killers are terrible.
And say what you want about the Trickster, MANY and I mean MANY would like to differ regarding his current state, but to each is own.
I'll disregard the rest of your points because they're pointless and merely an assumption of my capabilities & my playtime.
To let you become more enlightened regarding this thread's topic, I'm specifically mentioning changing his collision only.
No speed nerfs.
No perk nerfs.
No addon nerfs.
and frankly, I don't think this'll be THAT big of an issue people make it out to be.
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Read my post again, and then come back to me.
I think you misread.
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Get good
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Read both your original post and the post i respond to and it still is you facing a strategy you don't know how to deal with and instead of figuring out how to deal with it you go the effortless route to have it removed.
Here's a tip. If you face something you think is unfair or unbeatable in a multiplayer game do it yourself and see what others do.
If you face good survivors it will quickly become clear that it's not that free of a hit you think it is.
It will work a lot on bad survivors. It will even work sometimes on good ones. But you'll see that it won't work always
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I know it's unpleasant to hear, but if Wraith beats you to a pallet/vault, has time to uncloak, and hit you, you got outplayed. He read your movements, saw where you were going, and countered your play.
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The only thing that annoys me in all seeing. You can't make any saves or do anything sneaky while they have that addon and i have not met a wraith yet that doesn't use it.
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I mean, unless you're a master at going against all the killers in DBD, I'll take or leave it.
Thanks for the input tho.
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You mean finish ONE gen in 20 seconds. Tbh, Wraith is fine tho. Survivors should just adapt rather than complain about him.
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Let's nerf mid tier killers 🙃 You lost to a better player deal with it.
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Wraith is rated rather high by most content creators, while simultaniously being not used in tournaments.
The reason is quite simple: He is a solo-queue stomper. Hit hit and run style works best when there is little or no communication between survs. And his chase might appear unfair from the survivor perpective, but its a huge timesink for the killer, that will cost him the game.
Just another killer that highlights the glaring balance gap between solo-queue and SWF.
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No, im not all over the place. Im rude, thats correct, but you are the same. I take the time to address every point in your comment, but you ignore the ones you cant counter. Then alone in this thread you have many people, who disagree with you, but you still act like you speak for the majority. You are deaf to every other opinion except your own and so its pointless to argue with you. So if you want a discussion just answer to my points. I make it easy to you. And fyi i have over 2500 hours.
- m1-killer your examples: Trapper, Shape, Doctor, Legion, Clown & Ghostface. Doctor and Clown have a chase power. Spirit needs also to m1, so having no m2 damaging move doesnt makes you an m1-killer. Ghostface can atleast expose people. And i should have added legion to Shape and Trapper. Trapper has his bear traps and isnt really an m1-killer, but hes weak and you can counter his power pretty badly. The thing is that i wouldnt say wraith is weaker than any of them. But he is also just average bc he is a weak chaser.
- his bodyblock nerf: its one of his strengths and removing that would make him weaker. Its not unfair, you can counter it and its not op. So why should you remove it? Other killer can do it and you ignored this point of mine completely. So there is no reason to remove it.
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I never stated you were rude but... whatever. Looks like some has their knickers in a twist. As for me, I don't use petty ad hominems to get my point across.
You mention you being over 2500 hours and yet that's all you base your opinion on. You just keep emphasizing you played lots and good on you. I applaud that. But that still doesn't make you a connoisseur at DBD.
Now regarding M1, my point was the not all M1s are bad. You can reread my posts above. You keep emphasizing that they are, I beg to differ.
His body block became prevalent after this major buff. Before, he was too slow to even catch up. He was just an average chaser. Now, they made his map pressure high, stealth even better and gave him almost no compensation for making risky moves. He has almost no disadvantages at this point. He doesn't need nerfs, he only needs changes.
And if you consider my suggestion a "nerf" then so be it. I respect that opinion. Like I have done with many others before you.
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No, imo its rude to disregard other opinions bc the other side is less experienced. So its rude from me to say your opinion doesnt matter bc you are a newer player. But with people like you, i cant help myself. I didnt say, you said i was rude.
I base my opinion on my experience and you base your opinion on your experience.
I say that killer, who doesnt have a power in chase (m1-killer), have a fatal weakness.
His bodyblocks were there even before the buff. And many wraiths used windstorm addons, so there was no difference to now. The difference is that they now can use two other strong addons on top.
Its clearly a nerf. Making a killer worse, is a nerf. Or what is the advantage of that? Phasing through bodyblockers to tunnel someone to death? I guess that could be kinda helpful, but i prefer to not tunnel. Bodyblocking with wraith makes him stronger and its something to master. Makes his chase more fun.
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That's still your projection to another individual. Whether or not you find a certain behavior rude, I never mentioned someone's intentions as a personal reflection of that person's character.
And regarding experience, I agree, but I also don't look down on others just because I play more than them. I criticize their logic, not their playtime. You posted a long arguments solely under the assumption that I was a newbie and that my playtime must be "under 200 hours" and since that was entirely false, I had no other choice but to disregard it, simply because it did not reflect the truth.
Like I said, his buffs made it more PREVALENT, not that it never existed. And yes, though it could be considered a nerf, just because something becomes more "fair" (imho), it doesn't make it unjustified.
Whether it's justified or not is more of a personal reasoning.
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Why is it more fair?
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I think I've said the reason countless times already.
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Which one? You said wraith shouldnt be able to do it bc no other killer can. I replied: "But to be fair you can run past a survivor and block the pallet with every movement ability. Legions frenzy, Billys chainsaw, Blights rush, Spirits phase etc. But instead of doing that you can just attack the survivor directly, what makes it a straight upgrade compared to wraiths power. Well, except legion, who cant down with it."
You didnt answer, so i guessed you had no problem with my argument. Or which reason do you mean?
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My very first post would be enough for you to understand.
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Your first post translates into that: wraith op, no counterplay, thats toxic (weird definition of toxic) and i want a nerf.
I wanted to show you counterplay, but you dont want to learn it.
You admitted that wraith is not even close to the strongest killer, but you still want to delete a part of his power.
I have no idea what you mean with toxic.
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You cant really adapt to him hooking you then standing in doorways/gaps cloaked so you can't actually go anywhere once someone gets you off the hook.
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If the problem is he can body block you, wouldn't the optimal strat while he's cloaked to be constantly turning and running while staying near a vault or pallette. He has to ring his bell before he hits you, sounds like all the tools you need to react are there.
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next to basement Lol had some salty swf start trash talking when I caught them hiding in the same spot 3times in a row with all seeing wraith despite clearly indicating I knew they was there I mean if the killer easily find you after cloaking I dunno how about use the lockers so he don’t see you instead of trying to hook rush like a scrub was my reply they screwed up so hard by ignoring clear indication
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