delete please? :)
My venting seemed to just create more issues. So I would rather this whole thing be gone :) Thanks though for everyone else's opinions!!!
Comments
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A killer camping a person on hook isn't holding the game hostage. The person on the hook will die in 2 minutes and everyone else is able to finish gens and leave. Sure it sucks for the person on the hook, but there's nothing wrong it.
Borrowed Time gives the unhooked survivor 12 seconds of protection.
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If he did that to three people back to back the survivors ROYALLY screwed up. Survivors have time to literally do 4 generators in the time it takes ONE survivor to go from first hook to death assuming no missed skill checks. It takes 80 seconds to do a gen baseline. takes 2 minutes to go from first hook to death. If a killer facecamped one survivor, he should have lost 4 gens. If he facecamped a 2nd, two other survivors should have already escaped
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Yah you can't mention how awful camping is around here, and don't propose any mechanic to fix this becuase the killer mains rely on It so all you'll get is a torrent of Camping is good becuase it let's killers kill or something to that effect. My personal favorite is when they say a mechanic won't work becuse it will prevent camping and that's just not right
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Show me a single killer main who says camping the hook is a good strategy. I'll show you a bad killer main.
Saying a killer main "relies" on camping the hook just means you're quoting bad killers. So keep on with that strawman.
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Sadly there is nothing wrong with a killer camping the hook. I try and help my team out by lasting as long as I can, but if no one's using that time to work on generators, then I'll just kill myself on the 1st hook and hop into the next match.
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Holding the game hostage is when the game literally can't end. When being camped you eventually die on the hook so the game isn't held hostage.
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I know there is nothing wrong with camping the hook and what not, a LOT of killers seem to do this. Been against quite a few rank 1 killers before the new update and they would camp too. We NORMALLY did the gens and would just leave, but this time we were all trying to get out. Our games tonight have been GOD AWFUL. Camping nearly every match we had so we were trying to help. The people being camped only come out with a maximum of like 6K Blood Points and we just think it is garbage.
Had probably close to 8 games tonight, and at LEAST 6 of them were killers that tunnel one person only or camp. So, it's just been really rough.
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Oh there's plenty of those too watch the killer mains come in with I don't camp only the worst killers camp. then it turns to well it's alright to camp in some situations (usually when they feel there loosing) becuase you gave to camp on those situations.
If camping wasn't effective it wouldn't be prevalent. But hey impose how about a mechanic change where hooks don't progress when the killer is near the survivor and nit in a chase?
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Maybe 6k in blood points for our camped/tunneled teammate but the killer comes out with nearly 40K Blood points. But IDK, this is just MY opinion. So I get everyone has their own opinions and whatnot, but this is just mine.
I feel the camping has gotten worse with the "SBMM" because people are trying to rank up quick because they can get the blood points. It just feels like it got so much worse lmao.
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Because if survivors leave someone on the hook in stage 2 until there's 10 seconds left of their hook. Coming back and camping it is a viable strategy. If you dont think it is, then you just aren't good at the game. Don't know what to tell you.
And no. I don't support any change to the hook state. The game shouldn't be forcing people to play how you want them to be played, thats the biggest slippery slope I've seen for this game. The rules of the game are in there, use them how you want. Just like I don't support speeding up the EGC to stop survivors from tbagging at the exit gates. You don't like the survivors tbagging at the gate? Don't lose, or dont go to the gate. Pick one.
"If camping wasn't effective it wouldnt be prevalent." That statement is only true assuming everyone is good at the game. They aren't. I literally just today watched a couple friends brand new to do the game play an inhouse. Killer camped one person to death. Everyone sat behind a rock scared cause they dont know what to do. Camping is effective, to bad players. I don't care about bad players. I really don't. Get good. Its kinda mean I fully realize but if you want to ######### about something that is easy to fix YOURSELF, then shrug. You see a killer camping. Go do a gen and a half. Punish him for it. Run BT with a flashlight. Run Decisive Strike. Run Soul Guard/Unbreakable.
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i hope BHVR adress it somehow, waiting to get face camped with 4 and 5 gens to go is a problem that requires a penalization, a real one not "i lose points" thats dumb, maybe increasing the time of the blood bar 30 to 40% or something to make sure the rest are gonna get the 5 gens done or something and escape, then they may stop face camping survivors forcing second states at 5 gens.
sick of seing the argument "leave and do gens" yes as if with 1 hook we can do 4 to 5 gens, and a 3 v 1 is not something easy to do becasue then is when the slugs come in play aswell. and you see that often.
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Yeah, that is what happened that game. :\ He went after our Nancy and he did tunnel and face camp her. Only reason most of us died was we were trying to help so we could get points.
Our games have been really rough lately since the new update.
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Hey look at that 2nd sentence camping is viable it's almost like the conversation went exactly as I said it would by the killer mains hahahahahahah
So I guess if your looking looking a killer who says camping the hook is a good strategy I will direct you to the nearest mirror
Edit I didn't read the rest of your post at first but I should point out a decent killer facecamping will grab anyone who tried to unhook so no bt and and crappy killer who can't manage a grab is gonna run bubbas chainsaw
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OOf.
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Yep, just a player fulfilling the role of turning survivors that fail to escape chase into victims. Sounds like your team failed to overcome the situation and fed into the killer's tactic.
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And as usual the bads completely ignore the entire context to try and be right when they're just wrong. You keep on keepin on big guy. I'd say I'd be happy to play against you. But you'd never be in my MMR
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I mean, by all means, propose a mechanic to fix it. The real problem for me is that most people crying about it are doing it for the sake of complaining.
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Admits he didn't read post. Still runs mouth. As usual the bads completely ignore the entire context to try and be right when they're just wrong. You keep on keepin on big guy. I'd say I'd be happy to play against you. But you'd never be in my MMR
If anything all the people here on the forums complaining about camping killers are just admitting that they aren't good. Good survivors know to do gens when they see teammates being facecamped. And good killers know you literally lose games for facecamping hooks.
I've played roughly 20 or so survivor games in the last couple days. Not one camping killer in any of them
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Yeah I get it, everyone has their own opinions. But had it been you in the game where the killer literally face camps you until you die I am sure you'd be just as frustrated.
Only reason we "fed into it" was because our games have been awful because 80% of our games are campers and we are only getting out with 4k BP.
So yeah, we tried to save our team members and it just so happens that the killer stands like a step from the one on the hook and hits people. So I dunno. lmao
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I didn't read the while post becuaee you asked me to find a killer who thought camping was good and then said it was good in sentence two of your rant so commented. There is no context that changes you are the killer you were looking for
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How about hooks pause when the killer is within a certain distance unless he is chasing a survivor?
Most killer mains object to this becusde they claim it can be abused. When pressed about the abuse they say something along the lines of it forces a killer to leave the hook when they don't want to (you know stops them from camping)
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"If survivors leave another survivor on the hook until 10 seconds is left on the timer, coming back and camping the hook is a viable strategy."
Out of that sentence you took "camping is a viable strategy" and ran with it. So you are either being INTENTIONALLY obtuse, or you simply do not understand how to read a sentence with context connotations. Either way I assume you have no idea what you're talking about.
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You asked specifically for a killer main who said camping is a good strategy. That is you. You said it's a good strategy.
Then you went on to describe the when and why it is a good strategy.
Did that context change anything? No becuase when and why was irrelevant to the point that YOU are a killer that said camping is a good strategy.
Unless you want to change your mind and say your post about it being a viable strategy was wrong?
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Where are you getting your math?
3 survivors = 3 gens in 80 seconds max (assuming no missed skill checks).
How are they gonna do 4 gens in 2 minutes with only 3 survivors? It’s not like the gens are lined up nicely for the survivors to hop onto the next one right after they finish one.
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Well, yeah, it is kind of a black and white stance. Say I wasn't camping and someone is almost stage 2, I go to camp it and force the state or get a trade. Now I can't just because "camping bad." That would be a massive nerf. Especially if I am forced to leave my gens just so survivors felt comfortable to save. So you know, if they did change that, they would need to compensate somewhere. But obviously that is not part of the conversation because this isn't really a good faith discussion. Lol.
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80 seconds. 3 gens done. 40 seconds to do another gen with 3 survivors. Or even better. half progress on 2 other gens. Gens are extremely close to one another and at this point in the games life if you cant find generators then you're probably a newer player.
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Well you can still camp it it just won't be a winning strategy anymore so most killer won't do it becuase the other survivors will escape.
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Nah, I would just dip. I already get triggered enough at the new age hatch stand offs. I wouldn't be able to tolerate just standing there, menacingly.
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This is the last time I direct a post at you, as you're about as dense as granite. So I'll make this one VERY simple.
Understanding context.
You: Camping is bad/toxic/whatever.
Me: Camping in general hurts the killer more than it helps except in very specific circumstances.
You: Hah so you admit camping helps the killer. Checkmate.
Again. You're being intentionally dense to try and win an argument to make yourself feel better that you don't know how to handle camping killers. By assuming that I argue a subpoint, you assume I agree with the umbrella point. Don't bother responding. I won't be reading it. I just hope you can eventually outgrow your angst.
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Well if you can't stand camping then your not exactly the target of this alteration
Edit just to be clear that's a good thing
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Yah no I didn't say camping was bad toxic whatever.
What I said was that you can't talk about it becuade killer mains will come running to spout stupid things. Which I listed.
Then you said "Show me a single killer main who says camping the hook is a good strategy"
When you later posted that camping is a good strategy I pointed that you were the killer main who says camping is a good strategy. Becuase you did.
Now you really seemed bothered by me poi ting out to you that you are the killer main who thinks camping is good. Which to be fair it is. That's why camping happens so often becusse it's an effective strategy.
That's why the only way to address and reduce camping is to change the mechanics so that it's not an effective strategy.
That's also why killer mains come to posts like this to derail it as best they can because they don't want to lose that as a method to win
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Camping is why those killers will have low MMR - a bad system to support their awful and unproductive playstyles -shrug-
Once you get out of the dregs, campers and tunnellers will drop off, because even the most basic of math tells a killer that those aren't winning strategies.
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I mean camping may lower mmr but it may raise it, no one knows what the devs have made thr system track. So unless your working there your just guessing that it will lower it
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It's not successful by any metric the devs have said so far - be that hooks, downs, chases, kills, emblems, or points. The only way for it to be successful in any of those ways is for the survivors themselves to make some monumentally bad plays - for you to have made some bad plays.
Of note: I agree that the dev's choice to fail, yet again, at transparency for a system clearly failing us is bad and puts a lot of players in a bind. I agree that camping would and should be addressed if BHVR had any interest in a healthy community. I also agree with people you're picking fights with: camping is not, has not been, and will never be beneficial to killers versus good survivors, however much the rabble disagrees.
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Yah funny thing your mention that it doesn't result in kills. Bevusse it is effective at getting kills that's why people do it. If your looking for other killers who think that take a look at impose earlier in this thread.
But If you think killers don't get kills using it, why do you think it's being used so prevalenty and for so long that it's been coming up in these forums for what seems like forever?
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Yeah, it always suck to be the unlucky one to be camped, especially when you were playing optimally prior to it. There really isn't much to be done as this falls under player behavior rather than game mechanic.
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I can sympathize but I disagree with nothing can be done as it's a behavior. Most Killers camp because it's effective. If you change the mechanic then they will stop camping. True you can't 100 percent eliminate it but perfection isn't the goal
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It is him playing the role, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It is not holding the game hostage since you could have… you know… done gens and escaped. For that matter, there’s Borrowed Time.
If you go against good survivors, you’ll only get that one kill (if you don’t screw up by hitting someone that is unhooking). If you go against great survivors or SWFs most likely you’ll get none because they will sit on gens, finish them and then try to get the hooked person while they’re all healthy and can take protection hits for one another.
If someone is getting camped, do gens and leave. It’s as simple as that.
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Yes no one is saying that they are breaking rules. What is being talked about is how
killers will derail any conversation that may address camping. Like this
And hiw to change the mechanics so that killers wouldn't want to camp anymore.
Since you seem to be implying that you don't camp are you opposed to a mechanic that would prevent camping by stopping hook timer when killer is near the hook without chasing a survivor? Since you don't camp anyway right?
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You know you could do this insanely hard strategy that only the best players know how to do. it's called DO GENS STUPID!
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It's weird how such a simple solution has never been tried before. almost like killers camp becuase this is not an effective way to prevent camping, becuase even doing gens It's worth it for the killer to get a quick easy kill and the go after what's left
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He is implying that they are being broken. Because he (OP) feels that “”tunnelling and camping”. To me that is holing the game hostage” and holding the game hostage IS breaking the rules. My argument is partially that, but also a judge of value: whether you like it or not.
What do you mean by “how”?
Killers don’t need to be forced to not desire to camp, since it is a bad strategy if you wish to get more than 1 kill against good survivors.
I would be opposed to that because there’s no need for such thing. As I stated before, camping will, most of the time, be detrimental for the killer if he wishes to get more than 1 kill.
As a survivor: with the new system you shouldn’t mind being camped since you’re going to last as much time as everyone else in the match if your teammates are doing gens. You can’t derank anymore, so why even mind? Just finish the game and go next.
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Sorry so you are against implementing a change to make camping a losing strategy because you think it already is a losing strategy, if that's the case why not let it be changed since it's not going to effect anything in your view?
Also if you believe that camping is such a bad strategy that never works why do you believe that it's so prevalent? It pops up all over the place on these forums so its clearly happening quite a bit to others even if you don't happen to experience it personally?
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There already is a penalization besides "losing some points". It's losing the whole game and de-pipping/ranking/MMR-ing or whatever you want to call it nowadays.
That being said - Imo the whole hook mechanic is a flawed concept. Why? Because it's boring and thus really frustrating. There are 3 ways survivors spend their time in a match.
- on a gen/totem
- in chase
- on a hook/slugged
1 and 3 are extraordinarily boring and I think it's beyond frustrating to get hooked, not because of the "I lost the chase" aspect but because of the "I now have to wait/afk here for x amount of time until someone decides to unhook me".
That plus the queue times are probably the reason most survivors get super salty. The games action constantly gets stopped for survivors because of objectives and hooks and queue times which can all be categorized as (waiting times).
But hey, that's just my opinion...maybe other people think that sitting on gens and hooks is not boring af.
Edit:
I forgot to comment on the last part of your comment "as if we could do 4-5 gens during 1 hook" or something like that.
Let's look at facts and numbers here - If the killer hooks the first survivor of the game and camps him, that gives the other 3 survivors 2 full minutes of doing gens. A gen takes 80 seconds to finish for a solo suvivor. So a single survivor could, in theory, finish 1,5 gens during the 2 minutes of the killer camping.
Given the fact that we have 3 survivors remaining we can simply multiply that number by 3. 1,5 gens x 3 = 4,5 gens. So in theory you could finish 4,5 gens while the killer camps the first survivor.
Ofc that's an optimal number and not realistic since you'll have to find gens, run to them and in non SWF teams people are not coordinated to play that efficiently but doing 3 to 3,5 gens during that time is something that I'd call realistic for competent solo survivors.
So the killer trades 25% of his objective (1 kill) for 60% of the survivors objective (3 gens.. opening exit gates not included in calculation).
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I think your missing parts of the game. For example leafing the killer away from your team and then hiding either by using perks or purposely making noise just to name one fun additional thing to do
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There are quite a few things to do in detail. I was talking about the broad spectrum of the game. "Leading the killer aways" is what I'd categorize as "chase" since the killer is going after you.
Quint essence of my statement is though, that the main objective of survivors is basically waiting (doing gens) and the main objective of killer is to basically make survivors wait (hook them).
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Afaik BHVR already implemented that at some point. Survivors heavily abused this mechanic and BHVR removed it again. So, nope.
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Don't bother lol. This nick fella is the epitome of "So what you're saying is" and intentionally misreading everything you say just so he can make some arbitrary definition of him winning an argument that he knows nothing about.
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Seriously, just like some people already said: Genrush the ######### out of that Killer to show him that camping is not working like that. Bring some perks to counter the situation (Kindred, Flashbang, Deceisive Strike and Borrow Time) and then go.
Camping is not a forbidden tech, it is a thing thats in the game. Does it suck? Yes. Is it punishable? No. So you need to adept.
I do not camp as a Killer unless certain circumstances are met (one on the hook, gates open as an example). However I will not blame Killers who do. I just hope my team gets their job done and my only wish is that I would get more BP for those games to buy my offerings and add ons back.
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Yes and I've been told the abuse was 1they would run the killer near the hook. (Fixed by the except in a chase part) or 2 it forced killers to leave the hook when they would rather stay ie it made them stop camping as intended which most killer mains seem to think is a firm of abuse
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