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Why play survivor when you can play killer and win easily?
In what other game does one side have such a massive advantage? I woke up this morning to try a build against the Ruin/Undying that killer mains says "counters it completely". This is proof there is no counter and it is false. I spent almost 5 minutes looking for these totems even with half of my build devoted to the secondary objective. In almost every match, it is either the last totem or next to the last totem that was Ruin. In this example, by the time Ruin is removed, survivors are sacrificed. They couldn't do the objective. Here we have a map where totems are hard to find and when the totems are gone, you see what you have. A killer that easily won because of perks. 5 gens still remaining and two is actually dead. If this isn't broken I don't know what is.
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I can only engage in like 4 of every 30 chases because survivors run straight to an infinite
Also, how well did the survivors loop? You don't seem to have been found at all. Did you just get crappy teammates?
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Posting one image of you working on a totem and two survivors being on hooks isn't proof of anything.
This game is not killer sided, never was. It's in a much better spot now, but arguably still a bit survivor sided at the highest level of play, because killers have so little room for error, many maps are still survivor sided, and killers have to play against a strict clock if survivors know how to do gens effectively.
You just suck at the game, there is no other explanaiton to me for why you constantly post this crap.
Edit: Not to mention your playing on the map with an abundance of safe pallets. If you people go down so fast on that map, that's all on you.
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This is what happens when your mmr is the equivalent of a potato.
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Sluzzy, you play at low MMR, how can you talk about balance ?
An uncoordinated team of soloQ low MMR survivors will loose because of all survivors will do mistakes.
But a good coordinated team of high MMR survivors will finish the gen in 5 minutes and escape.
Survivors queue times at high MMR are longer that last week, killers are starting to leave the ship...
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Regarding the point you're making, pictures don't say nearly enough, a video of the entire Trial is much better.
Evidence of 1 match also keeps the doubt of it being an outlier, whether it actually was or wasn't.
If you're right then you're right, but since you're the one wanting to send that message, you might wanna think how you send that message.
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To answer the question:
Killers need to have much more situational advantages than survivors because:
- Killers need to apply pressure to Hooks, Generators, Hex Totems, AOI
- Engage chases, win chases, recognize an infinite loop, kiillers need to take the survivors lead in a chase, survivor turns left, killer needs to follow
- Apply pressure tto hatch should there be a key user, and the hatch opens immediatly, you catch them on the way, or your out of luck.
- There are 4 survivors , 1 loop , 1 heal, 1 totems, 1 gens, or 3 gen, 1 loop, so on so forth
- Survivors going into a game having more understanding of their foe than killers. (Clown, thats afterpiece, Nurse, blink, Executioner, whatever you call his kit,) While killers can only make inferences (Laurie, so likely a DS, Nancy, ok guard totems... hopefully. David, dont swing early...? The only thing we know is, Oh flashlight, oh a key, and survivors can change that in the server, while killers can not.
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Why play killer if you can play survivor and win easy? What other game lets you win easily just by holding m1 twice for 80 seconds? Usually when i see Undying Ruin, i laugh to myself, because the killer wasted 2 perk slots. Especially since Ruin can be completely ignored and it won´t slow down the gen progress.
Maybe the killer even wasted a third perk slot by equipping PoP. Which will never come into play as long as Ruin is active.
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So the matching of similiar skill opponents for a 50% chance of winning is a myth? What is MMR for then?
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Yup and half the time, survivors will spawn directly in front of Ruin & Undying.
Playing killer became just impossible. Most of the trials are totally impossible to win without camping/tunneling.
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I´m sure the devs will do something about camping and tunneling but nothing about the current gen speed. So my best advice is to simply switch to survivor.
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5 min is enough to do all gens, so u basically confirm u were 5 min afk and it was 3v1 where killer crushed them.
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Nope! Blight still can't go through walls or ignore pallets to the degree Nurse can, sorry Sluzzy. Just because you see him more doesn't mean anything! Blight still plays DbD, Nurse plays a different game entirely! If we need to nerf those darn OP killers, we need to start with the most overpowered one! But, you know that.
The Nurse is the most blatantly broken thing in the game. No other Killer can demolish Survivors like she can. Especially with perks like Starstruck, Infectious Fright...
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
I'm playing survivor aswell, i have always played survivor more often but the global state of the game is concerning me.
Without killer the game is dead. And i don't see how ppl will continue to play killer with the current state of the game.
I play both sides at a fairly high MMR (survivor i'm at the top, killer a little lower but not that much).
And i have noticed that gen rush is present in almost all trials, even good nurse are ending up with 2 kills only and are forced to camp and tunnel... it is so sad.
Also, the last few days, my soloQ queue times as a survivor have increased a lot. It was instant and now it takes a few minutes to get a game.
It means that killers are stopping to play, plain and simple.
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Play SWF, comms + confirming your team is good, we ran an experiment (we is me + my friends)
In a KYF lobby, when no one had comms, (on all sorts of maps) on average 1-2 people escaped, often 1 escape through hatch, or a snowball at endgame collapse
When everyone was in a call (including killer) it was always a 4k, not even hatch was escaped, for obvious reasons, comms becomes a detriment becuase the killer knows your next action
When survivors were in comms, and the killer was not, everyone escaped unless the killer tunneled, in which case around 1 would die
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Whats your point? The question at the start is clearly rhetorical, so what do you want with Ruin/Undying anyway?
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We have reached the point where survivors are the biggest threat to other survivors. When playing solo, i sometimes get matched with people that disconnect on the first down, followed by a hook suicide of the second survivor and another hook suicide of the third survivor. Even when 2 gens were completed by the time the killer got his first down.
So i can understand when people want to play with friends, where something like that won´t happen. Which in turn makes the game harder for the killer, because even a little coordination makes the game so much harder for killers.
In the week Pinhead was released, people complained about the sbmm and killer queues. Obviously the killer queues were caused by the new killer. Now that some time has passed, queues are going back to normal. Means that survivors have to wait a couple of minutes, while killers get instant lobbies.
Usually game health can be easily watched by checking the queue times for both sides during prime time. The side with the longer queue is usually the stonger one (exception is, when a new chapter/killer launches). So far it also looks like the survivor queues will continue to increase. Because the gen rushing has become unbearable for killers.
Hell, i´ve even seen survivors escape with 11k bloodpoints. I´ve seen "tunnel or camp" complaints from survivors that died with 11k bloodpoints. But escaping with so little points seems to be no issue. Which is worrying.
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I would like to remind everyone that people are entitled to their own opinion, if you don't want to partake in the discussion they have created, please move onto another thread, there is no need to attack and belittle them for it. Opinions can differ, it happens.
Please avoid any all off-topic comments and stay on topic of this thread in a civil and respectful manner.
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Yup, 75% of my trials as a survivor i escape with around 15k.
Mostly we are at least 3 to escape. Gen rush is huge.
1st chase, 3 gens done.
2nd chase/3rd chase, all gens are done, 1 door @ 99%.
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How did killer mains suffer abuse couldn't see you?
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I want it to get the Balanced Landing nerf. Balanced Landing was probably nerfed because some maps had "a few too many drops". Ruin/Undying and Tinkerer, I want reworked because it is way too OP on fast killers. Both sides should be treated equal.
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If you can play killer and win easily, why don't you play killer?
Don't you really dunno why survivors need that much match time?
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I don't agree with you.
Maybe it's because you play at low MMR, playing killer is not easy at all.
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i hate this map
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killer is HARD to play with against strong swfs or survivors. Not easy at all. That's all I got to say to you.
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Oh yeah the perk that made old haddonfield unbearable for pretty much every killer except maybe one...I wonder what killer really doesn't care about infinites 🤔
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I legit play survivor when I want to turn my brain off and win. Killer involves constant active thinking and decision making, survivor is just reactive, and due to the number of clues you get, if it's not a stealth killer, you don't really have to pay much attention. Skill checks are easy, loops are easy once you know them, countering all killer powers is easy if you have played that killer for long enough. Your objective is just holding M1. Your most powerful move is holding W. It's all just really easy.
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The strength of the survivors depends on their cooperation with teammates. Good cooperation will completely restrain all killers (except nurses).
Someone once suggested that you are not there for all the methods and materials that can improve the game environment.
Someone once suggested that as long as a small step, add some small icons next to the survivor's avatar, increase the amount of information in the single-player game, and shorten the gap with voice communication. You are not there.
Someone suggested not to change the weak killer anymore, you are not there.
Someone sorted out the way to add new players, and put together the reasons why players don't like this game, you are not there.
But once someone agrees to weaken the killer, you are here.
All the killers, in the face of an increasingly weak environment, facing the increasingly powerful environment of the survivors, they work hard to hone their skills
When survivors start to learn to use Pallets and windows, they will become stronger instead of weakening the killer
To play as a killer, you need to formulate countermeasures, you need to be familiar with the map, and you need to understand the skills and trends of the survivors.
Why does the survivor do not need to make the same effort, but indifferently weaken the killer.
I play the killer and the survivor at the same time, so much training, I have seen a lot of situations, I know why there are camping and tunneling, and I know why the survivors don't want to interact with the killer.
We collected opinions from various environments and found a very simple solution.
So many people give feedback, but we only see you when the player agrees to weaken the killer.
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Survivor is the easiest it's been in years and after this addon purge and boon totems it is going to be cakewalk for the most part😇
I wouldn't stress so much
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I want to clarify that I am not a developer - I am a Coordinator, which gives me the opportunity to forward the communities feedback - feedback from all sides and all kind of variety of feedback. However though, while I can do that, I'm still not a dev that works on the game balancing, please keep this in mind.
However, I do still would like to ask everyone again to remain respectful and on-topic.
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congratulations sluzzy, you have hit rockbottom MMR. Its going find killers with same MMR as you and teammates with same MMR as the killer.
Your already facing the worst killers in the queue and your still losing. Those killers lose as much as you do as survivor.
Meanwhile, We're mostly having very easy survivor matches and good portion of our killer matches are auto-loss.
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The thing is they (i think someone confirmed they are a she but i will stick to they) have over 20k nurse teleport hits and another similar number on blight M2 hits. (Warning no first hand info, just from other commentators on this forum but credible ones like @Orion for example iirc. Sorry if not)
So they play the strongest killers to a degree that the game becomes easy/boring against anything but real hardcore/Tournament squads but thanks to either only playing non loop able killer or bad teammates suck at survivor and then complain that their top most played killer are hard on them in soloqueue.
I guess that is the source of their bias, top MMR on killer vs potatoe MMR on survivor and a screwed view on things thanks to that.
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Sorry, I just hope that the collected information can help this game and the players who love this game
I like this game, so I have recommended it to everyone I can contact, when I hear their opinions (they are following this game, but they have not yet joined), and the opinions of the players currently playing this game, I Unify and publish the information
I saw the sadness of the killer and the survivor in this game, so I sorted it out and proposed a solution
I saw a situation where the survivors did not save their teammates even though the killer did not camp.
I proposed a small approach that can better balance the survivor’s teammates and help the staff to balance the intensity between the killer and the survivor.
But we have not seen any official actions on similar subjects. This makes us, the players who love these games, and the players who hope to play this game forever, feel very worried.
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Even if that was true, how then is the worst killers have all the overpowered perks? Nothing is being done to make these matches feel fair. Survivors can't win in most matches. Killers are winning because the game is too advantageous for killers.
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You may need to describe the process, because the production staff helped the map design a lot of objects that you can play against the killer. You need to find it and make good use of it. Effective use of windows and Pallets can take the killer 30 seconds in an area. To three minutes, it depends on how you use these advantages.
It also includes the transition area. You can use the objects in the area to open up the distance from the killer and switch to the next area to play with the killer for a longer time.
A survivor who knows how to use an advantage can delay the killer until the main goal is completed.
We haven't even talked about the skills that can help you.
If you do not make good use of these advantages, then you are not proficient enough. You will find a lot of help by observing everything that can be used in the environment and being familiar with the subject of the map.
Tap the potential on the map.
Survivors need time to hone their skills, just as killers need a lot of time to hone their skills, and killers need to consider more.
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I don't know what Bizarro world exists where survivors never escape and every round ends in an easy 4K, but I definitely don't live in it. 🤣
I played almost 6 hours of survivor two nights ago with members of my regular SWF, and we had so many escapes and realtively easy matches, the night devolved into us embracing the memes and playing as a "Sandbag Steve" group (everyone wearing the Scoops Ahoy outfits, and multiple members of the group intentionally sandbagging one another throughout our matches). Even then, we ran into some farming killers (who apparently thought we were hilarious) and others who, despite our attempts at self-sabotage, still couldn't get more than a 1-2K at best when we didn't all escape anyway. We all pipped up so much over the course of the night, it was ridiculous. My solo survivor rounds since SBMM went into affect have been relatively successful as well -- escapes in about half my matches (maybe more), with teammates that are largely my caliber -- sometimes better, and some occasional potatoes mixed in. There HAVE been slaughters where everyone dies ugly, but far more matches where it's been stress-free escapes with little to no danger of a loss.
As a contrast, my killer rounds since SBMM have gone about the same as they had beforehand. I've seemingly gotten easier lobbies with the killers I rarely play/need practice with, but the ones I have put the more time into and do the best with, the lobbies are definitely challenging, and while I can still get a 3-4K if I play well, I'm just as likely to walk out with the 0-1-2K if I make mistakes. There have been a few glitches here and there where it seems the SBMM used a dartboard to give me my opponents (either ones too good for the killer I was playing, others too inexperienced for a killer I'm good with), but overall, there hasn't felt like there's been a huge imbalance there either.
For context, even though Ranks technically should mean nothing now (and honestly were not the measuring stick then either, so far as skill went), I was a Rank 1 killer and Rank 4 survivor when SBMM went live officially, and I've moved back to Iridescent 3 at killer and to Gold 1 survivor (with less time played at the latter) since, so my experiences should be a reasonable example of what may be going on. Whenever I see the claims of "Every match I play as killer I get 0K" or "Every match I play as survivor ends in a 4K" or "Every match I'm getting is against Nurse/Spirit/Blight or a 4-man SWF sweat squad", I am completely skeptical -- as I believe that to be no more than hyperbole and exaggeration to try and push an agenda, or you're at some strange level of SBMM that the majority of the player base simply isn't experiencing. (I'm not saying that there isn't some aberrations occurring with some people's experiences -- only that thread titles like this one, and other similar ones I've seen on the forums, simply aren't representative of the larger situation with the game).
ETA: escape/kill rates during that survivor stretch I referenced:
Match 1: Escaped. 2 escape from team vs. a Pyramid Head (3rd would have made it out if they could have remembered where the door was, lol -- caught at the exit at the EGC).
Match 2: Escaped. 3 teammates died against an Oni.
Match 3: Escaped. 2 escape and 2 dead against a Blight.
Match 4: Died. 2 escape and 2 dead against a Hag. Considering I spent the entire match trying to use a flashlight I'm completely inept with, my death came as a surprise to no one, as I played terribly ineffectively trying to use it. 🤣
Match 5: Escaped. 3 person escape vs. a Huntress via hatch escape with a key we plundered out of a chest. 🙄
Match 6: Mercy Hatch escape. Everyone else slaughtered by an Oni on Midwich. Honestly, we all played so poorly, we deserved to die miserably, lol. 🤣
Match 7: Died. 1st match as part of the "Sandbag With Friends As Steve" experiment. 1 escape vs. a Hag. Spent almost the entire match trying to camp pallets for the 4 stuns in a match Rift challenge, so I clearly wasn't playing optimally. Played against a fellow streamer who thought the Scoops Steve Squad was hilarious.
Match 8: Escaped. 3 escape and 1 dead against a Huntress, but the 1 dead let themselves be sacrificed at the end, and the Huntress started farming halfway through the match when they realized we were sandbagging each other, lol.
Match 9: All 4 dead against a Trapper in our 3rd "Sandbag With Steve" match. Still got down to 1 gen left and nearly pulled it out. Against another streamer who also thought the Scoops Squad was hilarious. 😉
Match 10: All 4 dead against a Legion. This is when the sandbagging each other gameplay began to lose its luster, lol. 😅
Match 11: 4 person Escape against a Ghostface. We went back to playing seriously at this point.
Match 12: All 4 dead against a Freddy. Got him down to 1 gen, but we just couldn't finish it off.
My overall escape rate: 7 out of 12 matches, or 58%. If you eliminated the "Sandbagging on purpose matches", the rate was 6 out of 8, or 75% escape rate on my end. During those non-sandbag matches where we were clearly hurting our chances of winning on purpose (sometimes working to our advantage, other times not, so those wouldn't be "serious" data), members of the team escaped 15 out of a possible 32 times, just 1 escape away from the magic "goal" of a 50% escape rate (and it would have been 50% if our teammate hadn't lost sight of the exit in that very first match). We saw no Spirits or Nurses. No facecamping, I don't remember any tunneling, and nothing amiss from what I usually experience. Played one solo round since then against a Deathslinger and escaped, along with one other (the Deathslinger got his 2 kills from NOED, otherwise, the gens were done so fast, it would have been an easy 4-person escape otherwise).
That's a very small sample size, obviously, but since I referenced my own experiences, I wanted to actually go back into detail to see if I was misremembering the night.
Post edited by ChiSoxFan11 on0 -
Completely agree. As killer, it seems those are my ONLY match up. Takes the greater part of ten minutes to get a match and when I do, they are toxic swf teams. It's so obvious by the way they play too. All have infinite loops memorized, they troll you if possible while the rest gen rush. This game isn't balanced at all and killer is not easy if you're good.
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I know repressed can counter the problem, maybe lower the terror radius, instead of downright removing it, so survivors have some time to react, than adjust accordingly for slower killers, its a tough problem becuase you need to manage making it so fast killers can't deny the objective with insane effiecency, while also not killing its use for slower killers.
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Funny, the MMR should balance everyone in the same way, if the excuse is that everyone on image is "potatoes", then there should have been a balanced match, which was not the case (not even 2 scapes and 2 deaths).
The point is killer perks are not balanced according to their respective base movement speeds, creating unbalanced situations, especially in solo queue (probabily that blight was with tinkerer, undying and ruin), not the killer itself. I think that's the Sluzzy's intention when showing this image,
Create general perks for survivors even makes sense, since everyone has the same base speed.
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Killer perks don't win the match for them, survivor mistakes do. The perks only grant more time when combined with survivor's poor decisions.
If your hitting a wall as survivor, it's time to reevaluate the way you approach various situations.
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But the perks by themselves don't win/lose auto, you still need the person behind, (survivor or killer). Now, say that they do not help or create unbalanced situations is quite different.
ps: mmr in theory should exactly take into account the mistakes and abilities of each one there.
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You know I usually don´t vibe too much with your statements but the ruin/undying/tinkerer combo is actually unbearable for solos or teams of less than 4 if blight/nurse/spirit use it. It well deserved it´s name <3
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Well I can't think of any killer perks that create an unbalanced situation which survivor actions don't have to facilitate first. I am doubtful that sbmm is taking the details of result context accurately.
I agree that mistakes and the capitalization of them are completely on the players. Perks can extend time or semi correct choices, but the player must be capable of using the opportunity.
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