Hold W meta is unplayable against
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I want to see them dance to escape the killer
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This is kind of the matter
I mean, yes survivors can just run straight and its à normal thing but here is the thing:
You can waste more time from the killer, by just runing forward and vaulting à fiew windows here and there with far less risks.
Of course à good looper can waste way more time.from à killer, but in this case you dont need to be "good" as you can waste somewhere between 40-60 secs easily, and without dropping any pallets
The complain is that in the current state of the game, this strategy engages à level of gaming that is unfun to play, as just chasing someone running toward à corner isnt as entertaining as trying to mindgame à loop is, which is the core design of the game, and it is an easy counter to many killer perks/powers
So à good looper > à holding W survivor > à bad looper > all the survivors i have when i am playong survivor, my gosh it isnt that hard
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Dead by Daylight is the only game I feel like everything I do is wrong:
- Doing a generator? Wrong!
- Hooking a survivor? Wrong!
- Looping the killer? Wrong!
- Chasing a surivor? Wrong!
- Cleansing a totem? Wrong!
- Using a hex perk? Wrong!
- Playing the game? Wrong!
- Existing? Wrong!
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Running forward is not looping
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Not really. Wraith, Blight, Spirit, and Nurse if she has certain add-ons are the only ones that can deal with holding W. Everyone else can be dodged, even Huntress. Slinger to an extent counters it, but his projectile is unreliable at best at those sorts of long distances.
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It's buying time for my team, is that also wrong?
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You're a 110, just throw some ######### at them.
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Literally every killer moves fast enough to deal with hold W. You just... hold W yourself.
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It seriously kills me to see people unironically complain about survivors running away from the killer. You know, the thing they're supposed to do. Apparently survivors are meant to just stand there with a crown of crows and doing literally anything is abusing the system.
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And gain distance at a rate of 0.6 m/s. Meaning that a small 10m gap takes over 15 seconds to close. A more reasonable gap of 20m takes 30. Add in an exhaustion perk for 6m and a few prethrown pallets and that killer is completely screwed.
Killers seem a lot faster than survivors because they can usually cut them off somehow. Not a survivor that's holding W. This gameplay is so strong it's literally competitive DbD. This is what they do instead of looping, which is why it's only Nurse, Spirit and a little bit of Blight.
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The irony is that back a few years ago we had windows, pallets and the map was vastly populated with structures, killers complained about that so loops/windows and structures were removed, if you remove all that then there is nothing to do other than run from the killer since there's very little to loop nowadays, most maps have 90% unsafe pallets that can only be looped once before you get hit, loops that are so unsafe that even if you throw the pallet down the killer can still take 3 steps and hit you from the other side. Also they have introduced so many killers that can hit you through pallets and windows that the only option left is to run. what are they gonna complain about next? crouching? curse those survivors for crouching!
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on5 -
1v1 antiloop Killer areunplayable to go against
what now? Man you guys are annoying. You only review your favorite side instead of watching it as a whole, it's frustrating.
Recent Killer that got released all share one similarity. They will kill you in a chase over time and it doesn't really matter what you do, you will just die. The only way to not die is to hope that the Killer isn't able to use the ability the correct way.
Best examble: The Trickster. He's not a good Killer that's not the point. The 1v1 is just so frustrating and unfun. He will land a dagger and you will die over time.
How to counter those types of Killer, the new Killer Meta? W-Shift. Keep a high initial chase distance. Just keep stuff between you and the killer and run straight forward. No gameplay, no mikro gaming, no mindgames nothing than w shift. That's the only way to escape those types of killer.
The best way to counter those types of killer is to split out and do gens as efficient as possible. Because in a 4v1 those killer are just bad. Welcome to the new meta.
Instead of a Killer that requires mikro gameplay aka mindgames, decision making, predicting, analyzing, experience, game knowledge and also has a tool to slow down multiple survivors/gens or traveling the map very fast. Something to get map pressure as a whole. Instead of those types we get those boring unfun 1v1 press m2 and wait until the survivor will just die and be slow af Killer.
So stop complaining about the w shift meta if the killer meta is the hold m2 meta. You want the one thing, you have to take the other thing. Everyone wanted ez Killer that will win chases and here we are. And like every other KIlelr those need counterplay. W Shift is the counterplay. gg hf gl
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Yes it is for them folks. But they act as if people looping is going to give them an easy down. When a good looper can be the one to waste a lot more time, than someone mindlessly running.
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I sincerely hope this guy is just trying to parody killer mains and isn't <actually> complaining about this
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It's a serious and growing problem. Looping is being replaced by prethrown pallets and masisve W plays, meaning that there's both no skill and no interaction. That means no player retention because gameplay gets immediately stale, and less killers because it's just not fun to go against.
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Normally 110 killers have a decent enough power to stop that
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Hillbilly & Hag can handle it personal experience. Hillbilly can zoom in time. Hag just place a trap for later. With many other killers depends like Oni if there's Blood Fury, Twins if survivor is injured. Slinger and Demo can do things with there zoning. The issue with Hold W is there's a 50 split if it does nothing against one killer yet butchers another like Trapper, Myers, or Legion.
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The thing is, loops are still viable (yes even the unsafe pallets) , but survivors are so used to being in control and unable to deal with killers having counterplay that they now just run forward while the killer is miles away. I’m not blaming survivors who do this by the way. It’s something the devs need to address.
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The thing is that the game has changed over the years, we no longer have the maps we used to have, now we mostly have very unsafe loops followed by a giant dead zone so you throw the pallet and have to make a run for it, some generators spawn on a complete dead zone with not even a single pallet or structure nearby, you basically have to trade a health state to get a sprint burst and hope you make it to a pallet or TL wall, you can get a map as bad as having 2 or even 3 generators spawn on a complete dead zone.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on8 -
That part you said about “basically trading a health state” is wrong. Even on maps like Hawkins, you can outplay the killer at a pallet. Eventually they will commit to a hit. If you guess right, you get a stun and distance. If you guess wrong, the killer gets a hit. That’s how the game should be; it shouldn’t be imposing strong loops that totally eliminate killer gameplay.
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Nope you didn't listen to me, see the example above, there was no pallet on both the screenshots I showed and basically no structures so it's basically a free hit on those scenarios...
''it shouldn’t be imposing strong loops that totally eliminate killer gameplay''
Then we can make the same arguments for survivors, complete dead zones like the ones I showed above completely eliminate survivor gameplay, but apparently weak killer mains get triggered if a survivor loops a pallet, that's why devs have removed pallets/windows/loops over time and have introduced giant dead zones.
Post edited by Ink_Eyes on6 -
Dead zones are not that common in my experience. Even with that, the survivor at least gets a hit and speed bonus to reach a safe area. If a killer is in a pallet nest or the survivor is holding forward preemptively, the killer literally can’t touch the survivor. Worst case scenario for both roles still favors the survivor.
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Oh..Ohno survivors running from the killer? My lord the AuDaCiTy. How dare survivors. *Picks a card* do a basic function.
I swear which streamer you parroting off?
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Hag kinda does have exact that problem though. I don't know if you've ever played hag in a competitive or pseudo-competitive scene, but her counterplay is basically to have a couple of people harassing the edge of her web and holding W away while the others try to do gens... And then do the exact same thing but after taking a hit. It's so painful. Trials take upwards of half an hour. Me playing Hag is a roll of the dice, it's so incredibly likely I'll get one of those teams.
And Billy has to deal with indoor maps, map clutter and his post-chainsaw cooldown, the latter of which nearly guarantees a pallet or window. He does better than most killers against the W meta, but so does Bubba, Slinger, Demo and Plague.
Trickster, however, I completely forgot about and totally counters the W meta. And as much as I think his buff is a bad idea, I'm kind of looking forward to it because now I can miss 2 blades and not get heavily punished for it.
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''Dead zones are not that common in my experience''
I have hundreds of those so called ''not so common dead zones'' from different maps and all from recent patches.
''Worst case scenario for both roles still favors the survivor''
The pictures of those dead zones are a free down for insta killers like bubba, it's not always survivor sided...
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I really don't understand anything that's being said... Running in a straight line doesn't do anything. Why is it so complained? Can someone educate me or send a video, something? I really don't get it.
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Cool, so 5/24 killers get out a down in a deadzone. The game definitely doesn’t favor survivors….
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Move. Think. Do more than stand in place and wait for the Killer to down them.
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Sure. Just as soon as I can randomly (not predictably) down a Killer for a long period of time with well place knitting needles. Or the inability to look around a corner.
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Yes! let pallets knock the killer completely unconscious. If it happens too much, the killer gets a concussion and the game is canceled.
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you can already do that It's called DS
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The unsafe loops aren’t viable, there are a few unsafe looking loops on Hawkins that can make a larger mindgame-able loop if played right but the majority of unsafe loops are that, unsafe.
In fact with some unsafe pallets the time it takes to throw them down the killer can get to the other side & get a hit.
Also how will the devs solve “hold W”? Remember that the amount of unsafe loops & deadzones contributed to this “hold W” meta.
Also bear in mind holding W doesn’t solve everything, it still depends on where you are positioned in the map and where the killer is coming from, so it’s a lot more situational then you may be led to believe by a content creator spouting this “hold W” nonsense.
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I hate the hold W meta. I really do. So I main Blight. Survivors are forced to play tiles against Blight, and Blight is a beast at tiles too if you know what you're doing, so survivors are forced to actually play smart and skillfully against him. It's the best example of a killer that promotes killer skill vs survivor skill.
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Killers hold w just as much, if not more than survivors, but go off I guess
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Oh no, you need to do something other than looping! How terrible! Now you need to learn how to stealth or how to play around the Killers ability because he is not just M1 machete man Trapper...
Sorry but that complain about "unplayable" is just a weird statment. You have other options and you need to loop those Killers in a different way. Stealth is a mindgame and it is playable you just need to put some effort into it. They resently buffed Iron Will to encourage your stealth game even further.
Just beause your regular tactics that fooled a Trapper or a Ghostface did not work does not mean that there is no viable option.
Also Killers are supposed to get you sooner or later. That is the whole point. If you could outrun a Killer forever then you would be on equal footing with him. This is not supposed to happen as you are 4 players vs 1 because of the asymetric nature of this game, You must go down during the chase and it is your duty to wast as much time as possible.
Just to be clear: I do not understand the complain about the holding W+Shift either. On this point I agree: It is counterplay. The Killer can even counter that by chasing smart and not chasing you to a strong tile.
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Running No Mither+UP the Ante+Poised+Vigil ,that would please killers
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I said long period of time.
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People wanted looping nerfed and maps nerfed. So the devs did it. Survivors adapted by doing the only thing they can now do to extend chases. Sadly, no one realised that looping was at least more interactive and allowed for mindgames and outplays for the killer compared to Shift W
This is the exact same thing that happened with the healing speed nerf, survivors just stopped healing because it was now the smarter option. This is the future you chose when you said more killers need to counter looping.
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Why wouldn't they? So many filler junk that looping is nearly obsolete. Servers are so bad you vault and get hit anyways. They threw optimization out the window. Its just safer to run. Almost half the cast of killers are now "drop it or your dead"
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If you put the pallet down and don’t get a stun, the killer outplayed you. If you get a stun at any pallet, it allows you to run and gain distance. You shouldn’t be able to slam a pallet and force the killer to break it.
I don’t need a streamer to tell me about holding W: I have experienced it. While it’s true that not every survivor does it (most are bad at the game), there are plenty of people who do. It is especially bad on open maps since they can see you coming from a mile away.
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Yeah I played against one competitive squad which was a struggle with Hag. But, that's one game out of my dozens of games of playing against Solo Q and and some 2 mans that aren't a big deal. Like you said Solo Q has many issues. Which Hag devours. Hillbilly yeah there's that stupid overheat but it's mitigated by add-ons easily. Clutter is annoying but you can still catch up to them before a strong loop. And yeah Trickster eats Hold W I bet the devs heard the complaints and tried to make a killer to help with it.
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There is a fix, forcing the survivors to loop to outplay a killer. How ? Decreasing their running speed.
A survivor running in straight line should be caught in 5 seconds top by a killer.
SWF using W meta is unbeatable if you don't play nurse or blight.
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What’s your excuse for people who do it against every killer they’re playing against?
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