@The_Crusader said:
The devs just decided survivors should have flashbangs instead. From the design team that brought you Decisive Strike.

Tough love, we're used to it.

@Dreamnomad

1

You seriously need to learn to paraphrase. That fact that you actually break your post up into "chapters" says everything. Make your point and be on with it.

My chapters are not the same as a chapter in your favourite novel. Every subject could've been it's own post. This post is also not about "making my 1 point", because it's about making all the points surrounding the topic of flashlights, meaning that if there's anything concept introduced to the game due to the flashlight being added, then it's covered in this post.

For the amount of points (not singular) that I made in this post, I think I did things quite brief.

2

Anyway, this little snippet is just bizarre. Killers already have ample answers to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor. It isn't easy to sneak in range of a killer picking up a survivor especially since you don't know which direction the killer will actually face while doing so. Even if you do, timing it just right so it blinds after the survivor is all the way on the shoulder isn't very easy.

So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high. The killer has multiple answers including finding and chasing off any nearby survivors with flashlights, facing into a wall or opposite direction of the would-be savior so they don't have time to get into position, or using perks such as franklin's demise or lightborn if flashlights are shown in pre-game lobby. So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.

Killers already have ample answer to being flashlight blinded while picking up a survivor? Like the one already being mentioned in the post?

You cannot be dependant on Balance's Mercy, thus there goes Lightborn.
A survivor dying near a wall is also something survivors control, not you.
Being forced to slug, requiring you to chase a survivor is also in their control. And why you attempt the scaring away, that survivor gets healed behind your back.

In other words, there aren't a lot of answers, and the answers that currently are their are only availably if the survivors decide to make them so.

So the skill and difficulty level for the survivor is already quite high.

Most of the flashlight difficulty comes from the awkward mechanic and having to aim your beam. This is not the healthy form of difficulty, because when these requirements are always met, there really isn't much drawback.

So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed? It's already in the killers hands if they give survivors the opportunity to flashlight save.

We already showed why this is not the case. The presence of the flashlight alone, even when aware already mandates you to slug and is thus fully in the hands of the survivors, not you.

So why should this aspect of the game be nerfed?

Because we buff and nerf the flashlight in the most perfect way: That both the killer and the survivor have a fair chance to use their flashlight.

Normally the use of flashlights depend on abusing a technicality of the Devs forcing your neck to be stuck during an animation.
That's not what I call great gameplay;
Remember when Laurie Strode blinded Myers in Halloween, because Myers neck got stuck while he climbed through the window?

Instead of building on top of this weirdness, we replace both the Flashlight-Escape and Flashlight-Save on something that is conceptually sound:
The the unsuspecting survivor used their flashlight against the killer, they managed to blind them and run away!

This means that you can't blind during most of the animations, and only during the pick-up animation when you are the "unsuspecting" survivor.
We also make it possible to blind during chases without the locked neck abuse. Since the new flash-time is so quickly, when you run around a corner and shine towards an unsuspecting killer, you can actually blind them because in order for them to be able to react, they needed to be alert, but this too is something that the killer gets to respond to, creating more dynamic scenario's other then: You vault --> Me Blind You.Exe

That is why certain things need to be nerfed and other to be buffed (:
Allowing the noobies to have fun with it too.

@ReneAensland

Act like you’re about to pick the person up

Oh yes, act.
Against the ######### I play at Rank 1.

Act. Ok. Look down.

The funny part is that this could actually WOULD be a valid strategy IF the 90% version was implemented because then you'd have to be ready at the start of the animation and not at the near end.

It's hard to fake it when you have the fake the first half of your pick-up animation before they would be required to do something xd

Yes, there is indeed a wall / anything that will block the survivor from getting a FL save almost 90% of the time. Tree, wall, debris...

This is only the case when the survivor screws up and is not in the killer's control. If a survivor doesn't want to die near debris, they don't.

So if we believe your overestimated number of 90%, what is this supposed to suggest? That because the 10% is so low, the flashlight mechanic should therefore be allowed to be dysfunctional?

Because against good survivors, this 90% = 10%, or as Ochido puts it: "Crawl away from the wall crawl away from the wall!".

You could always just check your surroundings and make sure that there are no survivors nearby. Faking pick-ups also exists. If you do find them and chase them away and immidiately return and turn your back, there is no window for the survivors to do a FL save.

This was also mentioned in a comment above and we already covered this one. You can only "Fake" picking a survivor up insofar you are standing on top of them. It is still the survivor's behalf to screw up.

It's also really hard to fake the first 50% of your pickup animation because only at the end of the animation do survivors need to be beaming.

I don't understand as to what you mean "balance's mercy".

Chapter 1, Section 1 Subject: For easier reference.

The way to counter FL saves or flashlights is Lightborn / Franklin's, and you can equip those in the lobby if you see survivors with flashlights. If they last second switch, that's too bad and the devs should fix that. Or you can just use the methods above.

We already covered why the Anti-Build (Light-Born) is bad game-design and doesn't work. The game should not malfunction for you not having a specific perk.
Survivors not being able to last second switch doesn't solve the 2nd aspect of balance's mercy: Flashlights through chests.
The flashlight simply has to be a proper mechanic in the game.

The other methods above: Wall staring, slugging do not work and are also in control of the survivor.
Since the anti-build is invalid, staring at a wall is in control of the killer and slugging forces you to deal with a 240 timer while someone else heals the survivor back up while you hunt to other survivor and it becomes tick-tack-toe.

You lose by the fact of them wielding a flashlight and you shouldn't. Both players should have an interplay between choices that they have in order to create interesting back and forth.

Again all of your points and my responses to it were already mentioned in the Original post.

Please make sure that when you comment, you show how my reasoning against a certain claim is invalid instead of bringing up the same points I brought up in the original post and already refuted;

Argue about how the location where the survivor dies IS ultimately in the killer's power, etc.

@Dreamnomad

It's not about the frequency at which it happens. It's about it being a flawed mechanic and the fact that it can happen at an incredibly high frequency.

I don't know what your point is when you first attempt to refute what I say, while quickly adding an ""It doesn't happen frequently" along with it. Is your point that it's not a problem? Is it that it is a problem but not worth it because it doesn't happen frequently?
That is what arguing for the sakes of arguing looks like.

This really isn't a big issue at all.

You say this due to your inability to understand the DBD rank system and the effects that it has on frequency of toxic methods, but that is worth a thread in itself.

Most of your points prove that you are either bad at playing killer or just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Giving the full list of counters to flashlights in DBD is an indicator of me not understanding the game/being bad it it? My list was more complete that commenters that tried to debunk it managed to came up with. xD

Unless the survivor runs away from any objects and stands there and waits for the killer to knock them down then the survivor isn't in control of where they get knocked down. The killer chooses when to attack. Just because you can knock a survivor down now doesn't mean you shouldn't wait 3 seconds for them to get near an object.

Yes, this is what happens when survivors actually try. When they realise they are going to die they make sure they do so in an open spot. You don't have a choice.

If you move toward the survivor they will run and be out of position to get the save.

Evidently untrue. Rhetoric doesn't convince anyone. What is convincing is the multitude of video evidence of good survivors consistently managing to INDEED reposition themselves.

It doesn't take long and while the survivors are dinking around failing to accomplish anything, they aren't working on generators.

Rhetoric rhetoric and more rhetoric, and again evidently untrue.
Then again, you keep assuming survivors deliberately play bad and keep pointing out frequency, thus playing repeatedly into the Rank-Matchmaking-Fallacy.

As long as you don't understand that Rhetoric =/= Empirical Evidence, as long as you don't understand the DBD Rank-Matchmaking-Fallacy, then I'll keep pointing it out to you.

It is both not a problem and it doesn't happen frequently.

It is a problem and it happens very frequently at a high level.

Using lots of words doesn't increase the value of your argument.

The part that I referred to was 3 sentences. Are 3 sentences too much or do you have an attention span problem and want a subjects scattered in separate posts?

It is very rare for survivors to have and use that kind of insight.

It is completely not rare. It is only rare among bad players.

This isn't a matter of "rhetoric". It is physically impossible for survivors to reposition themselves to flashlight blind after being chased by the killer properly. Feel free to link any video you think proves otherwise and I'll explain how the killer screwed up.

4:43 - 5:09

The survivor in this example is positioned near a wall, but for the sake of exemplifying; By the virtue of that flashlight existing, this player was unable to pick up the survivor and despite this being nurse, the team was able to heal the downed survivor up to full before the chase was ended.

In any example like:

where there would be 2 flashlights, survivors could already completely remove the idea of "chasing away", as all you can do is play back and forth between the 2 flashlight survivors.

Second Example shows you wrong with there only being 1 survivor.

7:03

Not only is he not able to get a hit. He is literally not able do down her even with TIER 3.
The flashlight again by the virtue of existing already prevented the killer from picking up a survivor.

(Perhaps for this power, we should have the battery drain for the mere fact of you holding the item, jk)

In the video his luck comes from the fact of 1 survivor being dead and the other not coming to the scene to pray on the abusiveness of the flashlight.

Now to take your example and lets PRETEND that you even get to get a hit off and assume the survivor cannot reposition themselves, they still have ample of time to reposition themselves by the mere fact of only having to be present at the END of the animation.

You can find the perfect example of an injured Ochido dead harding all the way from behind a killer to get the flashlight save. It's somewhere on his channel in I think his most recent (last 2 months) videos in a green-tinted map near a giant Yellow vehicle with a window.

While everyone agreed with changing the slow pick-up animation speed that this game once had, they all silently agreed with my solution, including the devs;
Being able to give players ample time to reposition themselves s unhealthy and breaks the FOV Wheel aspect of the flashlights.

So how much time should be granted? the 10% covered here in this post (: