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Hypocrisy in Balancing
Comments
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Hopefully they go the Mettle of Man route and nerf it after they realize how broken it is.
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We can only hope but i dont believe they are going to nerf it because of the range restriction on the totem. If they nerf it i expect them to remove 4 meter on the totem or something ######### like that
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28m is a big range for a perk that benefits 4 survivors.
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Do survivors have Ruin
Do survivors have NOED
Do survivors have Haunted Ground
In summary, Killers have hexes that do insanely powerful effects that affects the entire map, when duplicated 5 times with Undying, you suddenly have a seriously unbalanced game.
You do see how how having Ruin, NOED or Haunted Ground which effects the entire map duplicated 5 times is entirely different than having a medkit that only affects a small area.
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Just make it so that if the killer finds and snuffs the Boon totem, it becomes a Hex totem for a minute or two, DEBUFFING the survivors instead. So if they all want to run boons, you can pop 'em all and make the survivor team way, way weaker than if they just put one, well-hidden boon in an out-of-the-way corner of the map.
That lets boons stay super powerful because if they ARE discovered, the killer gets a chance to turn the survivors' perks against them.
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Not to mention on multi-level maps like Gideon's and Midwich the effects work on the level above/below the totem as well. So a killer could very well get the notification that there's a totem here, search for it, and then have it be on a different level, forcing them to now go and find the stairs and walk all the way back to the general area again to see if the totem is on THIS level now.
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Just wait. I’m sure our amazing developers will have a Boon: Anti Ruin “generators repair themselves” soon enough.
Ruin, NOED and Haunted get disabled permanently after being cleansed. Boons do not, therefore they should either (a) not have drastic effects or (b) have drastic effects but be able to get permanently cleansed.
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Exactly. Right now boons have ZERO risk or downside.
Hexes have a huge risk because once gone that’s 1/4 of your side’s perks gone for the rest of the game.
Boons are just 1/16 perks but can be relit. Gotta love the logic.
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Boon totems are a nice idea but the devs haven't done their due diligence at all on them. OP is right, the devs don't have a consistent message here.
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That's 56m of diameter. That's a quarter-ish of Mother's Dwelling, iirc. You can place them whenever and wherever you want. They are infinite and offer an extremely powerful effect.
If I could chose to save Ruin for a 3-gen and place it in some obscure spot to force the Survivors to break it while I kill off their teammates I would take that ASAP
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untill they break the totem ofcourse.
which to be fair is an argument in favor of the hypocrisy the op is talking about so touché
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That doesn't matter. You have to remember a LARGE portion of players don't play killer much or even at all. They don't care about evidence or the observable reality of how DBD truly is when it comes to game balance and design choices, or how the game really is. They are bias and only acknowledge bad ideas or things when it only affects their favored side of the game negatively. Just look at all the people rejoicing over the Spirit nerf. The viable killer pool against actual decent teams is already jokingly small. Now one of few killers in that pool is getting nerfed, and most players couldn't be happier about it.
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“The lives of the many outweigh the lives of the few” kind of vibes.
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Good sir, would you please put that back where you found it and never go into my closet ever again.
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Sorry I was cuddling a cow in a bush when I stumbled across it
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That was sorta my point with that example XD
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I mean, it makes sense though.
Companies are always gonna want to appeal to the majority of their consumers.
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You’re right = a business will cater to whatever generates them money.
But at least they could do us a favor and pretend like they’re not trying to be biased.
”Hey! Survivors have a rough time cleansing 4-5 totems so let’s nerf Undying…”
then coming with
”Hey! Survivors have a rough time not having perks so let’s make their version of Hexes reusable…”
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You know, I always said that the only way Boons would be balanced is if Survivors could only bless Hexes, perhaps with an extra blank Hex spawning at the start, creating a fusion Totem where both the Survivor AND the Killer benefits from it, and either side can destroy it to get rid of a potentially powerful perk for the other team, at the cost of destroying it for themselves.
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But you see that would make it fun and engaging in a way where you actually have to think about the risk and reward and we can't have complicated things like that in this game! This is an M1 and W holding Christian minecraft server sir!
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Oh yeah, that's right. My bad. Guess good ideas aren't allowed to exist in this game.
*Sigh.*
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Exactly! You take that fun and critical thinking nonsense out of here! Go on now, git! Now go stand in the corner of the basement and think about what you did.
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Perhaps another way to balance Boons is to give them a time limit. Say after 3 mins of burning, they auto snuff out, and would require more survivor attention to reactivate. I agree that Boon's effects are strong, but we have to keep in mind that if it were not strong, there would be no incentive to activate them. The infinite blessings requires someone constantly refreshing the totem.
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And again...there are -4- survivors total. The work can be divided among them.
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It's 28 meters, and yes actually. If you made hexes exactly like boon totems, where they worked only in a specific radius, but you could reapply them and use them whenever you want, I'd 100% take that. Adjust the cleansing and hexing to be proportionate for killers since there's only 1 killer, so like a full 5 seconds to hex or cleanse a totem. I think that'd be completely fair and more fun.
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the difference is you are alone as killer so you will lose the entire momentum of the game and all your pressure just to deactivate a perk that can be re activated at any time with barely any sacrifice from the survivor side, since its just 1 survivor who has to bless it, meanwhile the 3 others can still do the main objective (gens). The Killer therefore has to make a decision to give up on the main objective or not.
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I've said it before. Boon totems add an extra 1-2 perks to your whole team, while only costing one perk slot. It also only costs 20 seconds of a single survivor's time, of which the killer now has no idea they're doing it, to both cleanse a hex and give there whole team in the area an extra perk. That's not balanced
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Survivor perks are almost have no counter-play and often tend to be flat advantages. Just look at meta perks. Dead hard for distance, Borrow time(Buffed), Iron will(Trumping Stridor). Its not that they're hypotrecal, Its that the survivor perks are so strong that in order for a survivor perk to be meta, they have to have zero drawbacks like current meta perks + be stronger to be used.
I don't think shadowstep will be used because Iron will is far more consistent option when it comes to removing sounds, however I think circle of healing will be power-creep self-care that everyone will run. They might do a small tweak circle of healing to have lower radius like 10-12 meters to prevent stacking use cases but the perk is likely to be meta healing perk for rest of the games life cycle.
historically, they do not like killers being able to counter survivor perks. For example Enduring used to work on decisive strike at one point, so people used Enduring to counter decisive strike, than the dev weakened enduring and buffed decisive strike stun up to 5 seconds. They do not want killers to be able to counter survivor perks because it often leads the survivor perk in being lackluster/ineffective. Its just how survivor perk balance goes.
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Just a Devil's Advocate thought here: Undying was originally overpowered, but then nerfed from patch notes 4.2.0 to 4.5.0. So they ultimately changed it, most probably based on feedback and data. Since this is a ptb when it is first being tested, it currently isn't fair to compare it as Undying was out for a while before being changed, and this is the first time a Boon is being seen in action. Like a tester.
I'd say it would be fairer to make that comparison if they have not altered Boon totems at least between now and when "Hour of the Witch" is officially released. Because a ptb is for testing and the Boon has not been made live, it's worth reserving judgement.
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DS is still 60 seconds, and Pop was put down to 45.
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Well...they need crazy perks something to sell a DLC whiteout any killer.
Remember Ash and MOM.
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Base Progression (one survivor)- 1 charge per second
Bade regression- .25 charges per second
And that is why Killers are using multiple gen regression perks... namely Ruin and Pop
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It’s more about how BHVR likes to contradict themselves when something doesn’t make the game “fun for survivors”.
My listed quotes of their official statements are a reflection of that hypocrisy:
Cleansing totems is too much work for survivors, but it’s okay for killers to have to waste time snuffing Boons all game long.
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And I agree with the fact that killers having to snuff out totems continuously would not be healthy for the game. But sometimes when people test things, they may test something in its most overpowered state to see whether that has potential or if it will not work. The sheer amount of feedback received from both forums and videos on YouTube and other services may help dictate to them how it's ridiculously strong, and with data they can amend it before it becomes live.
It's healthier for sanity to realise a ptb is just that and when the game goes live to hope the data and feedback received makes them fairer.
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We can only hope.
BHVR doesn’t have a good track record of releasing a well balanced product on a consistent basis.
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