noed nerf when?
I understand the purpose of this perk is to help new/lowskill players to get at least some kills in the game, but it doesn't really help them learn how to properly play the game nor it does provide fair experience for survivors. Why hand out insta-downs and speed boost for little to no effort in the match? A simple time limit of 90 or 60 seconds (like Haunted Ground, imagine the latter having no time limit) would suffice even without removing Haste.
Comments
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The NOED nerf will be here in a few weeks when boon totems go live.
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They play the entire match without a perk for a chance to make a Powerful Move in the Endgame, and only If Survivors try to go fast.
They have the entire game until after Gens are Done to learn their Killer.
With Boons coming next patch Noed is going to get soft-nerfed anyway.
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Do you consider gen-rush and 90 pallets per map a "fair experience" for killers?
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Your logic makes exhaustion perks unfair
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Adrenaline Nerf when
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Never.
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I don't really see the issue at all with NOED - first of all it can be removed from the game before it's even active and secondly, the killer is down to 3 perks throughout the entire match. I'd also refute that it's used on less skilled killers, i see it used a lot on low mobility killers, which I think is perfectly understandable as those are the ones that are likely to reach endgame more.
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BHVR should hire you into balancing team imo.
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I have to agree on that one! Not even to mention the flashlight abusers....
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Probably the last thing in game make old survs scary xD
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NOED needs a rework, not a nerf. It's just a terribly designed perk in its current form.
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No, keep it as it is.
Noed is fair and balanced.
Good survivors are perfectly capable of destroying the totem.
It doesn't need a nerf or rework!
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Noed is fair and balanced
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Noed is I'd say the only second chance killer perk. That's 1 for Killer and about 16 on Survivor. If you want noed nerfed, then nerf every other Survivor second chance perk
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^ these. Although breaking the Totems takes some time, a good team can destroy all 5 very quickly. The only issue I have with NOED is the fact that the other Survivors often don't help me get them, making me have to get all 5 alone, wasting more time. But when they do help me, it's no problem at all.
Try running Detective's Hunch, a perk for David Tapp. Very good perk for finding Totems.
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Blood Warden is a second chance perk, but a much harder one to use, yet also much more rewarding one.
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True, but let's be honest it's way more forgettable and harder to use than noed
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I can 100% see the issues with NOED.
1) The only "counter" is to do all 5 dull totems. Not only is this nearly impossible to do in SoloQ, it wastes a preposterous amount of time that you could have easily spent doing 2 full generators. If you are able to cleanse all 5 dull totems and still win, then it was a terrible killer who was already going to lose. How many times have you gone out of your way to cleanse 5 dull totems, only to lose the game by 1 generator, and then find out that the killer didn't even have noed? Must feel great.
2) Bad killers use it to camp + get a guaranteed kill on good survivors. Let's be honest here, the majority of killers who use noed are just absolutely terrible at the game. They constantly lose game after game, but instead of getting better, they equip a perk that will simply guarantee an extra kill. And no, you cannot just "dO bOneS". Read point #1.
3) Playing killer with 3 perks isn't that big of a deal. Most good players will use corrupt or even lethal pursuer, which then they are down to just 3 perks after the duration. And yes, they have strong effect, but they also run out very quickly. Not to mention that hex perks can be deleted after about 20 seconds if your unlucky.
4) It has no warning that its coming. How often have you been in a chase with a killer towards the end game. The chase is going pretty well, your at the killer shack with the pallet still up, and you can get 1 more vault out of the window. Then, the last generator is completed and the killer keeps chasing you. You think to yourself, "damn, how is he getting so fast? must be bloodlust". And then he barely catches up to you with a free speedboost and an instadown that he got for losing the game. You are then facecamped in the basement. No balancing issues here guys! Let's also keep in mind that old OoO was changed not because it was too strong, but because it was unfun to play against. The same logic applies to NOED.
My Proposed changes to NOED.
1) My first proposal would be to completely delete it from the game, since it is terribly designed and doesn't belong in the game.
2) But since that isn't happening, I would suggest a tweak of the perk that not only warns survivors that the killer has noed, but also makes noed not be abused by bad killers that can't get downs normally.
Hex: No One Escapes Death - Once all 5 generators are completed, all survivors that have been previously hooked in the trial now suffer from the exposed status effect.
This version of the perk will also immediately give survivors the exposed status effect when all 5 generators are completed instead of when the killer downs someone, just so the survivors know what they are up against. I also chose the remove the speed boost, as it allowed bad killers to get hits that they wouldn't normally get. This version of the perk is much more balanced and fair, and the only people who like the NOED we have now are complete ######### at the game and want to get free kills with badly designed perks.
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Hello, thank you for at least reading through the threads and reply. I'd like to add my two cents as someone who plays both survivors and killers.
The issue with NOED is the fact that it potentially functions as a 6th gen. Let's go through a few possible scenarios.
1) The survivors fully intend on clearing all totems so NOED does not activate. There are 5 totems on the map which each takes 14 seconds to cleanse so it will take 70 seconds to cleanse all 5. This is of course not taken into account the time it took to travel around the map and locate the totem which add at least 10 more seconds in the best possible situations. To put into context, a generator takes 80 seconds to complete.
2) The survivors cleanse some totems but not all. Now let's say they manage to cleanse 3/5 totems, this would make the survivors lose 42 seconds (or 1/2 a gen) and the killers still benefits from NOED. As a killer, this is the best possible case to hope for.
3) The survivors do not cleanse any totems. Now the killer has the benefits of NOED yet it can be cleared much faster because the hex totem will be lit. This is not an ideal scenario for the killer or the survivors because at this point at least 1 survivor has gone down.
As you can see, either the survivors have to deal with a 6th gen, at least 1 guaranteed down or 5,5 gen and 1 downed survivor.
For the part about the killer having 3 perks throughout the match, I believe that if the survivors waste more than 70 seconds to cleanse all 5 totems, NOED has done its job perfectly. Would you say that a perk that add 10% time required to all generators not a good perk?
Now let's look at the equivalent of NOED for survivors, Adrenaline. The time it took for a heal is about 16 seconds plus 5 seconds of speed boost. Let's be generous and use that 5 sec haste as 30 seconds of chase. It would save the survivor 46 seconds. Nowhere near as good as NOED unless 2 out of 4 survivors have it but then you'd have 2 out 4 survivors TRULY running 3 perks all game. There are many cases where a survivor expected NOED and prepare, how many cases where the killers expect Adrenaline and prepare?
As for the part about low mobility killers, I believe everyone would be fine with the speed boost portion of NOED remaning. I have never heard a complaint about how fast the killers are, only complaints about the exposed status effect. As for solutions, I propose a few below:
a)If the purpose is to truly helps low mobility killers, perhaps remove the exposed status effect and keep the speed boost or buff it.
b) If not, I believe the requirements should be lowered to if 3 dull totems remain then NOED activates. That should cut down the 6th potential gen.
c) The last and the most light-handed change that everyone would be happy with is that NOED activates not on first hit but on last gen complete.
Thank you for at least listening to feedback.
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Comparing NOED and Adrenaline is moot. The only shared similarity between the two is requirements for activation (all gens complete). Adrenaline though has more benefits than just the heal and haste. It holds itself over through hook and carry states, this means you get a free heal off hook + haste if you were being carried or already hooked before last gen done. There is no way to halt/deny the perk, when the last gen is done the survivor gets adrenaline period.
With NOED a killer (who can't even see their own dull totems or have a counter) won't even know if the perk is going to go live or stay greyed out. Its not a coin flip its a roll of the dice. NOED is fine if not already on the weak side for a hex totem just look at the benefit/downside comparison.
NOED benefits: Speed Boost, Permanent exposure status on all survivors.
NOED downsides: Can be removed before being activated, down a perk slot for 95% of the game, can be removed after activation thanks to a glaring visual change, alerts all survivors of hex on first hit on any survivor, discourages running any other hexes because survivors will then be hunting totems throughout the trial, does not override BT or endurance effects.
The risk extremely outweighs the rewards of NOED and it honestly needs a buff by increasing number of totems in each match from 5 to 7 to match gen count.
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"can be removed" argument is invalid in soloQ and even in 2- or 3-party
"down a perk slot for 95% of the game" is invalid since it can single-handedly win you a game even after performing badly the entire time
"alerts all survivors of hex on first hit on any survivor" is a downside? lmao
the risk is non-existent, the reward is absurd
If adrenaline picked you up from dying to healthy, then we could compare those two perks, but i wouldn't complain if they removed or nerfed adrenaline as well as noed
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If you don't see the issue with NOED, you know as much about the game as the rest of the developers.
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Depends on the map? it goes from 90 pallets to 3 pallets.
Certain Autohaven and Macmillan spawns are literal deadzones with 2 double windows and 3 pallets in all map.
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You being bad at soloq doesn't invalidate any point. Don't be lazy if you see bones do bones. You worry about NOED you have counters, Detective Hunch, Maps, Count Force, Small Game.
Lol being down a perk for a vast majority of a game isn't invalid if survivors derp around, can't see a lit totem or feel the need to be hyper altruistic instead of just leaving the game. If you are losing the game to NOED alone you've 9/10 lost the match prior to last gen being popped.
Yes, alerting the entire opposing side to a perk is a downside. It even gives you a splash name saying its NOED. A killer can't down, pick up, hook, and run to both exit gates before you either 99% or fill on escape. 1 kill < multiple escapes and at that point its greedy survivors trying to soak up as many BPs as possible from an already won game.
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More like noed nerf why? It's a weak perk nowa days just keep track of dull totems go back to cleanse the lite one if your trying to save a mate. If not just dip give the killer his 1 kill. Only thing I hate is a facecamper that gets 1 camper 1st down first hook for no reason then gets a second bc of noed
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You may not, but some of the players definitely see the issue with it. When I do SWF, every match we have that has noed activated at the end always goes from us having a fun time to immediate frustration. But just find all the totems right? Well that isn't always a likely thing to happen in every match. Yea there are items and perks to help us find them, but should we have to make them a permanent loadout just in case the killer is using noed? I have spent half the match or longer trying to find totems just to see my team get taken out before even half of the totems are cleansed. The problem with noed is that it gives killers too much end game power despite how they played during the match and all they need is 1 totem up to get it. The perk needs to change.
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My issue isn't it's power, because it has plenty of counters, but that it really artificially inflates kill counts without improving performance. You are only getting one hit while hasted, but if someone is already on the hook, and you are playing solo survivors, most of them are just going to ditch the other two. Now a 2-3 hook game has become a 2 kill game, which really misrepresents how well some killers can do. Deathslinger is a great example of a killer I see beaten often, 1-2 hooks all game, then he has NoED and one totem wasn't found, and bam, two people are down. I am not hunting down that last totem with an instant shot Slinger, so those two are just going to have to die, despite having perfect performances all game. That Slinger didn't actually play well, but the game registers him as getting two kills.
The above can happen to a LOT of killers. Anyone who doesn't rely on M2.
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Can we get Mandy as the new head of the balancing team? Thats the first time I see a real answer and speaks from both sides.
1 The game is balanced around solo que. Thats why swf is such an unbalanced mess. I use the perk counter force which does an excellent job at doing totems. Theres alway small game, a map and detectives hunch. Before the "I shouldn't be forced to run a perk" excuse think about the other 16 perks the killer has to go against. Doing them isn't hard you can do them just walking gen to gen or early game when the killer is looking for a survivor. You shouldn't be the only one doing it your team should help.
2. If the killer is camping, you have enough time to do totems. A camping killer isn't a problem to most people if you know how to counter it. Only killer that is a guaranteed camp is bubba. Other than that do totems if the killer is camping. In a real match the killer might get 2k at most if they camp unless you give them the free down or don't look for the totem.
3. Being down 1 perk can have a huge impact on a match. Think about how many times ruin got cleanse and how fast the gens flew. Being down a perk hurts alot even if their good players they will struggle.
4. If you're ignoring the totem everytime you go do a gen who's fault is that? Yours. Don't be lazy cleanse the totem. And heres my problem with people saying noed is too strong. You had all game to do it. If they're a god nurse blight dh or ph most likely they won't have it. But if you can tell right away that the killer is inexperienced then you should now right away that this killer has noed.
But your idea of balance is i didnt do totems it shouldn't be my job to do totems im just going to rush the gens and get out asap. Oh the killer has noed? They must be bad even though i died to them. The perk is too strong let's nerf it even though the killer uses only 3 perks, can be deleted early game and late game and there's plenty of counter perks. Yup. Nice balance.
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what you fail to understand is imbalance between requirements and benefits the perk provides, suggesting running around searching for 10 objects instead of 5 hints at you being relatively new to the game - read the comments above. Detective's hunch would be a solid option except it's hidden by paywall and (what's even worse) enormous grind to enable it on other characters - again if you were playing the game long enough, you would notice it, that's another issue worth its own post - the rest of the options you listed are unreliable at best making you permanently a perk or an item down the entire game (including endgame).
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Uh. Boons? Your welcome, enjoy? Maps, Detective's Hutch, Small Game All perks still are used by HIGH MMR before the adjustment. So... figure out the rest I guess?
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Dull Totems are not an objective, generators are. I'm not saying I like that, but that is how it is. You seem to not want to bring up that you can easily lose a game by just doing 5 dull totems and then find out that the killer didn't even have noed. You also are afraid to bring up that it can guarantee terrible killers a free kill on a survivor who should have escaped.
Just because you feel like the game is balanced around Soloque doesn't mean SoloQ is hell on earth with 0 communication with your teammate who you rely on. Most good players play with their friends, and that will never change unless they completely remove SwF from the game. Which is never going to happen.
1) No, you should not be forced to run a perk, especially since the best totem counter perk is a teachable (detective's hunch) and new players wont have it. And don't bring up killers being "forced" to run slowdown perks, because I also agree that it is dumb that killers have to do that too. Being forced to run perks is an issue, don't just accept it and tell other people to fall in line.
2) The NOED totem can easily be right next to the hooked survivor, or extremely hidden on a large map, and if you are already down 1 or 2 teammates, and your last teammate is on the hook, good luck getting that totem. A lot of killers with m2 powers can easily hide their noed until they are able to snowball next to an exit gate.
3) So ruin needs a buff? My argument was that getting at least one free kill is at least worth a single perk slot. Yeah, obviously 4 perks is better than 3 but saying you only have 3 perks when you are running noed is like saying you only have 3 perks if you use corrupt intervention or blood warden, which is a completely ridiculous argument
4) I swear you are just ignoring my argument at this point. I don't not cleanse dull totems because "i'M lAzY", its because it wastes SOOOO much time that you NEED to use on generators to escape. Games against really killers are often very challenging, and there is ZERO time to do 5 bones across the map which can easily take upwards of 2 minutes, which is one and half generators.
The bottom part of your post is completely ridiculous and leaves out all of my arguments and you just beat up a strawman that you made yourself. Personally I don't care if I go down to a good killer who has noed, the issue is with ######### killers that could never down me for a million years suddenly get a speed boost and you get one shot. Not to mention trying to take a hit for my injured teammate only to find out that he has noed. I don't understand why killer mains get so angry when survivors do their only objective. No, actually, I dont need to spend 3 minutes doing bones just to find out that you didn't even have any hex perks. What a boring waste of time.
I know that you like to ignore my arguments, so I'll spell it out for you right here:
1) TERRIBLE KILLERS SPAM NOED IN EVERY BUILD BECAUSE THEY CANNOT GET A KILL WITHOUT IT
2) YOU CAN EASILY THROW A WINABLE GAME BY CLEANSING 5 DULL TOTEMS
3) NOBODY SHOULD BE FORCED TO RUN A PERK BECAUSE YOUR PERK FORCES ME TO RUN ANOTHER PERK. THAT IS TERRIBLE GAME DESIGN
4) TALK ABOUT MY PROPOSED REDESIGN OF NOED AND ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN WHY IT IS A BAD REDESIGN
Thank god Mandy isn't in charge of perk balancing, things are already bad enough.
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Dull totems are a objective. You just can't admit it which is fine. People will use any excuse to nerf a perk. Being "boring" "no skill" etc. You shouldn't be the only one doing totems. Its a TEAM survival game. Its your team letting you down. You're afraid of admitting that you don't want to do totems because you just can't be bothered with it. Just rush gens as much as possible but get mad at the killer becuase you failed to do the second objective lol come on bro. Get real.
Solo q will always be bad. Unless your team knows what you're doing. I play solo q all the time and I know I'm a decent looper. If your team is bad then thats your team. Again its a TEAM survival game. Swf imo needs a nerf. It offers too much info with 0 downsides hopefully one day. But who knows maybe or maybe not. But I'm sure you think swf is balanced.
Right now killers are being forced to run 3 slowdown perks. Thats the meta. Gens fly by so fast that its frustrating when you only have 1 gen slowdown. God forbid you have to touch a totem. Also small game is a totem counter and you can locate totems using them. But you don't want to use it right? Can't take of DH, DS, BT and IW.
You know how you could've prevented that totem from being next to the camping killer? Doing the totem early game lol.. you know noed activates when gens are all done right?
If you're really going against a good killer chances are they aren't using noed. Baby killers who just started the game have little experience use noed because it gives them a chance to compete against survivors. You're talking about not "wasting time" "I could be doing a gen" yeah evey survivor wants to gen rush and get out asap without the killer getting a chance. But yeah those evil killers using the op noed. Yeah you're right gens are a objective just like totems. But it's still a lazy excuse not tk do totems because "you waste too much time". Ok lol. Throwing a game over a totem? Maybe you just need to learn to loop the killer longer.
I dont really care about a "strawman" argument im sure you parroted that from someone. Either way I bring an argument that you don't like but I'm wrong because you don't agree with it. But noed isn't changing anytime soon so bring a perk or use a map. Also your idea of a "perk balance" is make the killer work twice as hard giving survivors too much information while survivors don't have the same treatment just press E for a free life. I'm glad you're not part of the balancing team the game would be dead in the water bro. (Also noed is used at lower ranks at high mmr noed is non existent fyi)
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Did you even read my response ? You didn't respond to any of the points and we actually agreed about it being stupid for killers being forced to run so many slowdown perks. The post you just made has so many contradictions it puzzles my mind, along with even more strawman arguments about me using 4 meta perks every round? I have no idea where you are getting this from.
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How about this.. as mainly a survivor these days.. I say buff NOED… make that unholy hex invincible, resurrect every dull totem and apply it each one, allow the killer to sacrifice all potential bloodpoints earned to call upon the entity to trap a survivor attempting to leave through the exit gates so they can be mori’d. Do it… buff NOED… Make things more interesting BHVR;)
Come on Mr. Cote. Lets spice it up a little eh?
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Noed is not that good, its a risky perk, maybe 1 kill, but good players will either cleanse it or simply escape. Also with boon totems even worse. Actually i say I play better without noed, it's such a risk for just 1 kill....
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jesus christ this, how is it possible for survivors to have such an amount of double pallets in coldwin, jesus. specially this map with the big buidling with hay.
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These NOED threads man 😅
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People hate noed cause they get killed, and lose because of it, therefore salt comes.
Honestly give the killer a break, if he's bad, oh well, let him have his fun. This game is survivor sided anyway.
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even great killers run it too. But I love running NOED and surprising healthy survivors with it at exit gates lol.
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I used to use noed, but not anymore as my perk build is set, the only thing I could change is Shadowborn, but im addicted to it
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I've played this game for longer than I care to admit sometimes. At this point though its like a brick wall arguing against a brick wall which isn't healthy for the game, the forums, or the community.
So hold your opinion that NOED is OP and ill hold mine that its actually under powered. ✌
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So I just had a match on the Midwich map where the killer had noed and got an undeserved 4k because of it. The only totem perk I had was counter force during this match. I spent a lot of time going around the map trying to find totems and did not find a SINGLE totem the entire time. Meanwhile my team was getting hooked and close to death, so I decided to stop looking for totems and work on gens. We got all the gens done and sure enough noed activates. The killer downs 2 survivors while the 3rd died on hook. Both were death hook so I felt my only chance was to either find the hatch or go for the door when the killer went looking for the hatch. Well the killer does go looking for the hatch, so I go for the door. Sure enough the hatch spawned very close to the exit gate I went to and I ended up getting downed too. All of this happened because of ONE PERK and it was NOT because I didn't try finding the totems. Anyone who tries to find totems on Midwich knows it feels like a lost cause unless you have perks/maps to show you where they are. When matches like this happen (and they happen a lot) I can't tell you how frustrated I get at the game.
NOED is an overpowered, unfair perk. The killer is given too much power and too much end game advantage all because the survivors didn't cleanse all the totems in time.
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Idk man, sounds like a Skill Issue, once you saw the exposed effect you should have cleansed the totem or escape, ur fault not the player's or the game's.
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Honestly i barely die to noed unless im first to die, once i saw exposed, no more waiting. Hurry tf up and don't attempt to loop.
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I do get your frustration but dbd is a survivor sided game anyway, so, noed is kinda like a last redemption. But very risky as it can be cleansed or escaped.
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Noed. The anti altruism perk.
1) if a killer has noed. Open the door and escape. Just leave. Go. Disappear.
2) if they camp, find the totem and cleanse it. You have 4 minutes to infinite time to do that.
3) they have 3 other perks. Unless they are the legends of aura perks your fine hiding and finding the totem.
4) survivors already have things to counter hexes. Use them. Stop making excuses. Use them. You already use DS, BT, DH, Prove, etc. Use them. Stop complaining.
5) if noed is used by bad killers and you get killed by it, your garbage. Trash, low tier. Got gud.
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Should've brought in more than just a single perk then 🤔.
But it was undeserved because you didn't bring in any other perk/item. Or didn't level up your character. 🤷♂️
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Haven't heard so much truth in my life oh god especially the last one xd, but fr, noed is just like adrenaline or hope for killer, but more risky and better in some sort.
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Implying exhaustion perks aren't unfair rofl
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Right... because I spent millions of blood points on multiple survivors just to keep a permanent anti totem build in every match I ever play. I guess I should also bring a map every match too and make all the points I spend on other items worthless. Unless you're doing SWF and can have someone on the team be on totem duty then its always taking a risk on what you will be playing against.
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