Decisive Strike still doesn’t feel like an “anti tunnel” perk.
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He has 40+ (discount time chase) sec to crawl away after i slug him. U clearly need to follow your advice if u never saw how survivor can crawl away into gate and he is basically invincible for u.
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This is not gonna happen.
Current DS is strong where supposed to be, at the end game. When the killer wants the kill, camping and tunneling.
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U know current DS as anti-tunneling tool makes me think i want to just tunnel one survivor and destroy his game cause i don't want to eat DS late game. It's kinda funny when anti-tunneling tool pushes me to tunnel people.
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Killers tunnel because killing a Survivor ASAP is the optimal strategy since Gens fly too fast. If you hook everyone equally you get 4 escapes.
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Leave DS alone, good lord..
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DS is literally gutted.
It's up to the killer if they want to eat possible BT and then DS because that survivor can't do nothing to progress the game.
Devs, do a favour to our member here. "If the survivor drops a pallet, fast vault, medium vault, or slow vault a window, DS deactivates."
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Yeah, DS is a GREAT anti-tunnel perk - it works so well that 4 out of 5 times I get tunneled off hook and use it, the killer will still tunnel me after successfully hitting my DS. The only time DS is ever useful is in endgame to get out through the exit gate. Using it mid-match against a tunneling killer is completely useless. If anything DS needs a buff. It should work after booth hooks and the stun duration should be increased.
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Unbeakable is literally one time use how exact you would nerf it? And borrowed time? Yeah no
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The consolation is that if you chased and hooked someone else in the meantime, yet you still get DSed, that means that survivor did nothing for those 30-60 seconds and just wasted their time.
So as the killer, this still puts you in the green, and now they've just wasted their DS on baiting it out unnecessarily, when they could have instead been healing or working a gen, and as a result means they don't have DS left for their 2nd hook.
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And that is why DS is meta. Not because it is a good perk, but because it counters that strategy and makes the game playable for survivors.
Stop tunnelling, and DS becomes garbage.
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DS is fine the way it is, I think it should disable when you’re opening an exit gate. There are still gonna be times when you get stunned even though you weren’t necessarily tunneling.
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That won’t happen. If survivors played the whole match with 3 perks, they should have a chance to use their DS just like killers have chances to use their endgame perks.
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U know dead hard exist ok? DH is more broken than ds
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Or keep tunneling and dispose of that survivor (that's actually the better choice most of the times). This perk doesn't work properly as a anti tunneling, it's still a free escape in the end game, so ironically this perks will enforce tunneling. I want to add a personal anedoct: since I was tired of seeing people winning thanks to perks that "outplay" me every time (tbagging at the exit and being extremely toxic for no reasons), I did an experiment: I started to play optimally, without caring about the fun of the others (I must also thanks some survivor mains on this forum if I started to play in that way) and I must say that it works MUCH better.
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Yeah and Dead Hard is garbage when at full health, NOED is garbage when not all gens are done, Iron Will is garbage when at full health.
Just because the perk has a condition does not make it bad. It is objectively meta and for a reason, Killers tunnel because gen pressure is too harsh. So now Survivors have perks the Killers are forced to respect the mere existence of for whatever reason, only other perk on Killer's side that comes close to what these perks do is NOED.
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Oh yeah, it having a condition doesn't make it bad. It just has a very terrible condition, that is what makes it bad. You need to be hooked, rescued, and then downed and picked up again in the next 60 seconds without ever doing anything useful for the team.
That's an incredibly stringent activation condition. Much, MUCH worse than most other conditional perks. It just gets picked because it is the only thing that counters tunnelling. And short of stripping it of its one and only function, you can't make people stop using it. No matter how bad it gets, it will get picked up as long as it counters tunnelling.
DS is not OP. It's just meta because it counters the killer meta.
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That logic doesn't really work. Pop can only be done with gens. You have a chance to use it throughout the match. You can't use it endgame. Same goes for Oppression, Ruin, or any gen perk.
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That's because they're gen-based perks. Decisive Strike is a hook-based perk, not a gen-based one.
Prove Thyself, Flashbang, Blast Mine, Visionary, Better Together, Technician, Red Herring, all of these gen-based survivor perks shut down when gen 5 is done.
Conversely, Make Your Choice, Devour Hope, Gift of Pain, Blood Echo, all the hook-based perks continue to function.
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Corrupt Intervention or NOED every match is fine to you then? Or is it double standards?
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It would be fine if DS didn't activate after all gens are done. All survivors have to do is give that person BT/body block them as usual. The only difference is that if the killer can successfully play around all that, they can still kill that person, instead of DS still being active and it being a guaranteed escape for them. It allows the survivor to have a chance to escape, while also giving the killer a chance to still get a kill.
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It's not an anti-tunneling perk. If it was, they would have made it turn off when you hook someone else or when EGC started.
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Again if DS hasn’t been used before endgame, than they deserve a chance to use it. Endgame or not, survivors have a tool to counter tunneling.
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Corrupt Intervention is 100% fine. Actually could use a slight buff, so that it doesn't corrupt a weird group of generators. Which happens sometimes. Absolutely no problem with that perk.
NoED is problematic in a similar way old DS was. I feel like it could use a condition. Like any survivor who's been hooked once is exposed. Anyone who's been hooked twice is exposed and can be mori'd.
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I have people body block me while they're running DS. 9 times out of 10, Borrowed Time is on them so they abuse it to protect the unhooker, knowing for a fact that even if I wait out the BT and down them, they have 60 seconds to get away.
DS is not healthy in its current state- I don't think it ever will be, not when paired with the tactic of abusing Borrowed Time or using it to body block and have 60 seconds to crawl away and get picked up.
I've certainly also have the situation where I've hooked someone else after the person who has DS has already been unhooked, and they intentionally throw themselves at me to make me eat their DS while its still active. The HEALTHIEST DS would be is if it was disabled once another person was hooked at all, or downed while the DS user is outside of the killer's terror radius.
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Is it anti-tunnel? I think it tries to fill that space but does a mediocre job. Everyone wants to talk about narrowing DS under the guise of "anti-tunnel," but I never see any discussions about DS's effectiveness. Instead, it's always these cases of "I never tunneled, but I got hit with DS poor me!" yet what about all of the issues where you do tunnel, and nothing happens because you circumvented the perk? DS needs a significant rework, and this time the devs need to factor both perspectives and not just The Killer.
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Leave the hook alone 😂 bother someone else that's working a gen while your trying to bother the hook counters bt and D's you think D's is unhealthy bc your the kind of killer DS and bt are suppose to punish 🤡🤡🤡
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I don't think they took killers' perspectives into account when making the DS nerf. They never do. It was most likely a rare stroke of genius on their part. Someone actually asked "Why can a survivor still have DS after getting straight on a gen after getting unhooked?" Considering Dead Hard still has i-frames, I don't think the opinions of survivors is ever not at the forefront of their design decisions.
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BT into Body block. into forced slug. and you never know if they have it so they can just sit there and play horribly, but optimally because this perk exists.
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The DS nerf was specifically requested by killers, so saying it was based on survivor perspective is a really weird take.
In regards to the whole bodyblocking thing: I think BT should disable collision for the duration of the Endurance effect, just so it can't be used 'offensively'.
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I get you're trying to rile me up, but you know you're looking like a clown, right?
What am I to do, if someone follows me to the hook, unhooks the person immediatly after I hook them, while I'm 3 feet away, and then the person who got unhooked runs in front of me to eat a hit with BT?
Or, perhaps I'm playing a super territorial killer like trapper or certain hag builds; Am I just supposed to not hook around my traps and go patrol somewhere with no traps where I'm literally just a m1 killer?
Alternatively, alternatively, I could be chasing someone else, simply near the hook after someone gets unhook, and the person who has DS has an entire minute to be able to body block while I'm chasing someone else.
What about cases where there's only 3 survivors left, I've chased one off a gen, and I know the other one is going for the unhook? Should I just let the third person take me all the way to the otherside of the map?
Honestly, there's a thousand reasons you could think of that aren't just tunnelling or camping that DS and BT can be used (and sometimes abused) to get a second chance when the killer is making the only right calls in certain situations.
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How on earth do you think unbreakable should be nerfed? It’s literally a one time use
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Then take the kills you did get and move on to next game lol it's not a competition. Killer aren't true wins, of you get 2 kills and pip you win. As a killer main I don't need that guaranteed kill end game. I don't tunnel or camp. If I did endgame, survivors deserve counters whether it be ds, dh or bt.
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I NEVER tunnel or camp. Ever. Still get 4 ans 3ks most games. Was rank 1 before the MMR changes and still didn't play daily. It's not that hard to give survivors time in the game to play and get points.
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And I stopped caring about kills and just played and didn't try to ruin the survivors fun. Works our better for me. I still get 3 and 4 kills most games. Don't tunnel and never camp.
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Coming from a survivor main that used to bring ds every single game and couldn't live without it but never brings it anymore: I understand how you feel, but the truth is: What else can they change to it? They already added when you touch a gen it deactivates, what else could they make that would disable it? I understand your reasoning, I just don't think there's anything else the devs can do about it
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If you are afraid of DS, re down the survivor and pick them up. You either get the hook or eat ds. It's a win win for killer 😞.
We really need to talk about BT deactivating whenever they unhook a survivor (since I don't think it's deactivates by doing this).
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Just make it a zero time use. Ez /s
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It's DS and BT everyone has been playing around them since they came out it's not that hard to wait 12 seconds or slug a bit or just hit the guy with bt let him run and mend
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Ds should deactivate if you're healed by others, it should deactivate if you go into a locker, and ds shouldn't work on self unhooks. Then it might be balanced.
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I personally eat a DS as soon as I can, I play nurse so 5 seconds doesnt really matter to me and ill down them and hook them anyways. camping and tunneling is a very viable way of playing now because of how imbalanced the game is so I would say get used to it. It may not be fun for you but its infinitely not fun for them since its against the survivor rulebook for killers
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Thats why I have adopted Spook N Jukes mindset on tunneling, camping, and noed. if they arent okay to use why can you do them and why are they there? yes you get a bit punished for it but I personally find it more fun to proxy camp for the inevitable sucker to come by then leave and maybe get 3 hooks a game. since doing this my 4k rate has gone up significantly and I feel like im in the power role again. survs finished 3 gens before you got 1st hook? time to camp. they still get unhooked? time to tunnel. survs set that pace for the game, you are just adapting to it accordingly and if they dont like it, you dont like 3 gens being done in 2 mins either so they can shove it.
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Only issue i have with DS is that its still active when gens are all done. Multiple times ive had still all 4 survivors alive and i cant even secure 1 kill because everyone and their mothers nowdays use DS. I think it should deactive when gens are done.
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Oh, thanks Captain Obvious. It doesn't make it fair or balanced that I just have to play the game in a really awkward and inefficient way in order to maybe put a little bit of pressure on the team. If the DS+BT combo wasn't in most people's kits, and if it didn't let the person who just got unhooked body block and tank hits for their team, this wouldn't be an issue.
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Leave hook alone and you wouldn't be in that position pro tip from captain obvious 😜
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Hmf, people DOESN'T DESERVE such kindness. Maybe I've a mmr too much high, but you can't play chill with survivors. Every single game I've (toxic most of the times) people who use the usual small pp build with instaheals and toolboxes with BNP, while I play with brown addons... actually I'd rather do few points but kill everyone IF the survivors that I faced were toxic or play to win instead of chilling than leaving everyone alive by playing fair... You reap what you sow
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I dont leave everyone alive. I rarely give hatch. I just don't camp and I very rarely tunnel. I don't let survivors get to me.
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