Simple Yes or No - Is anyone else ok with the MMR details?
Comments
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No. I'm very disappointed that after so much time instead of a complex, functional, skill-based system all we got was that over simplified... thing
Post edited by White_Owl on1 -
No.
They lied to us all.
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At first no but after thinking about it yes.
Not ideal but it should do what it's suppose to do.
People just need to get it out of their head that high mmr is good and low mmr is bad.
It's not measuring your skill. (Despite what the poor name suggest) it's just looking to give you 50% escape rate no matter how your playstyle is.
If you loop the killer for 5 gens and die at the end then your mmr will lower so next game you can loop the killer for 5 gens AND escape
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Yes.
It should be called KBMM or EBMM, but I am fine with it. I only think they should improve some aspects and make the decay harder or interduce a reset from time to time. But overall I have good matches right now and a more mixed basket. Sometimes I stomp, sometimes I get stomped, seems fair for me.
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Yes.
The MMR system in placed is based upon balance, which in a game like this is simply win vs loss. Now we understand what that is, then we conclude a 50% escape rate = balanced and a 2k = balanced.
What I feel is being confused is balance vs fairness, and that's because there are 2 separate systems; 1 for each.
Fairness comes in the form of being rewarded for putting effort in, and that's the Grading system. Putting effort in is doing well in all aspects of the trial (the emblems) and time dedicated to the game. It rewards you by the end of month reward system.
As balance cannot accurately mean the same as fairness, this dual system where MMR is not included in rewards but the effort of Grading is, MMR is now simply about grouping people with others to improve the chance of escaping only and add a rewarding experience for the trial, whilst Grading rewards effort, partaking in all aspects and playtime.
Overall, the problem is calling it "skill-based" when it's actually result-based. But actually it males a lot of sense to me. Still confused as to why it took 2 years, but I guess takingbin data, trialing various systems, gaining feedback and changing makes some sense.
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Yes.
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No for survivor, there’s much more to it than just escaping.
Yes to killer as despite the system being odd it seems to work.
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No, bring back the fun to dbd and remove this trash system
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Yes.
Ask a killer what a win is. Most will say 3 or more kills. By that token, a loss must be based on escapes.
These are the rules we use, so we shouldn't be surprised they are now used for matchmaking.
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No. It took them a year to make a worse system than both previous rank system
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Of course not.
At least the emblem system breaks the game down into different activities and says "doing these things contributes to how much you did in a game," it may not have been flawless but it's better than reducing the entire game to "did you leave at the end."
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Yes.
It's already immensely better than the old system.
The game is too complex for a defined assessment of skill, there's multiple ways to play and a lot of RNG, but this really is the closest we're going to get.
People have been begging for a definite win condition for years, well now we have it, kills/escapes.
Ultimately, if you're consistently getting a lot of kills/escapes (regardless of how you're getting those kills/escapes) then you're playing above the level of your opponents, so the system should recognise that and increase your MMR.
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Except it didn't.
I was stuck with a never ending bardage of sweaty seal team teabags as a killer under the old system.
Now my games feel fair.
So something must be working.
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"Something must be working"?
After all of this you want to rely on faith that "something must be working"?
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I prefer to go more by results than feelings.
You can feel bad about this system as much as you want, but it's working.
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From what I've heard its only based on escaping and kills.
NO.
didn't dude say something like "you can be the best but if you die you die. You'd hope you could run the killer for years and do hundreds of gens, but if you die. Aw well. Better luck next time. You'd like to do all that and escape, but you can't always get your way . Too bad".
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No.
In the video it sounds as if mmr only exists because previously it 'was rather counting your playtime' which is what the grade do now. All while what was tooted as 'skill based' only counts how scummy you can play (as by, going by the explanation, slugging at 5 gens and hooking everyone then earns you more points than 11 hooks at letting the last person go. as does waiting for everyone to do, do nothing and then escape through the gate. that isn't 'skill' or anything that should be rewarded)
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Thank you for the all the input thus far.
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No.
I don't agree with the fact there is only one condition for both side to win MMR. Escape/kill, we don't care if you hide the whole game doing nothing/facecamped.
The fun isn't about escaping/killing, but about interactions. And I feel interactions don't appeal anymore but the results now.
I think I'll be low MMR soon as it's more important for me to save a teammate in the end game than saving my own ***, unless I really have no chance to make the save.
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No.
Anyone who says yes is just objectively not understanding skill in this game.
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No.
Escape-Based Match-Making is just the rank/pip system but dumbed down and devalued.
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Where are the MMR details at?
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It's one of the first things they talk about.
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Honestly. I don't care anymore. It's not like they will be able to make a perfect mmr system. It's an asymmetrical game, and I am good enough at the game to face good survivors. So I play normally against people of my skill level, and then go easier on the potato's I face on the off chance.
I play survivor how I always did. Aim to pip. Escaping or dying doesn't matter.
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No
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Yes.
Surviving and killing are the best metrics by which to measure success in this game, and will also more closely than anything else indicate performance and skill levels over large enough sample sizes. And even fun levels.
The only thing I'd prefer is if survivors were treated as a team toward the survival end, rather than individually. Imbalanced aspects of the game such as over and underpowered killers, add-ons, items, perks and tactics on the other hand are things that have to be addressed on a case-by-case basis, a matchmaking system can never solve those issues.
That said, I do think hooks could make for a better metric than kills, but that would have to go along with a comprehensive reworking of the game to actually be about hooks rather than kills.
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Say that all survivors will incur a 400 point penalty for losing. Survivor 1, who dies first, will incur the full 400 point penalty. Survivor 2, dying next, will incur a lesser penalty- let's say 10% less, for a deduction of 360 points. Survivor 3, who died next, would then recieve 25% less, for a deduction of 300 points, and poor Survivor 4 dying last would recieve a penalty of 50% less for minus 200 points.
^That's a community member summarizing survivor MMR for a loss
It would depend on the ratings of the Survivors you've killed.
- If you and the Survivors all have the exact same rating, your rating wouldn't change.
- If the Survivors that you killed have a higher rating than you, you gain more rating.
- If the Survivors that you killed have a lower rating than you, you gain less rating.
- If the Survivors that escaped you have a higher rating than you, you lose less rating.
- If the Survivors that escaped you have a lower rating than you, you lose more rating.
- Hatch escapes are a null (it's as if that Survivor was never in that match, you nether gain nor lose rating from them)
So when you kill 2/4 Survivors, your rating change is the sum of each 1v1 matchup. I'll use some made up numbers as an example here:
- Kill "better" Survivor: +20
- Kill "equal" Survivor: +10
- "Equal" Survivor escapes: -10
- "Better" Survivor escapes: -5
So in this case, 20 + 10 - 10 - 5 would leave you net positive with a +5 gain.
^That's a dev summarizing killer MMR
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No.
It's not measuring skill and it isn't even working if there even is any sort of "MMR". You're still getting mixed survs/killers just like ranked matchmaking.
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It's measuring the end result of several skills.
I do think that the survivor side of matchmaking would be better as a 2 escape/2 kills but I see the good points of this MMR also.
At the end of the Day, a Killer wins by making kills and a survivor wins by escape. You use all of your skills to achieve this goal, so it makes perfect sense to base it on kills vs escapes.
And if you look at the forums, most people like the new matchmaking system.
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I'm happy that they share info with us, this is all good. As survivor I don't like this because I play "everything for my teammates" games and always do everything to save people until the very end. This system will probably make me more selfish.
Don't play killer that much but I think it's pretty good because either you kill survivors or you don't. As killer you are alone so playing selfish is a given. So for killer this system is fine by me!
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It doesn't take into account anything you bring or do to make the escape/kill goal reachable. You did all gens or did no gens is the same thing. You brought a medkit or toolbox or nothing? Same thing. Did you bring a map offering to get sent to somewhere favourable? Well the system won't judge that. Nothing you do matters, just the end result.
You know what matchmaking system didn't take those things into account? The Ranked MatchMaking system.
If Hatch escapes don't count as a Win in MMR then why are the Hatch and key changes being worked on? Killer players already dismiss them as saying they are a tie and BHVR just confirmed that aswell. So if they don't count towards MMR then why are the Hatch and key changes being worked on? Because they do count. They count for the Emblem System therefore they count towards progression therefore they must count towards MMR and therefore they are making the Hatch & Key Changes cause Hatch Escapes do count and they're just trying to hide that like they are hidding MMR.
Ask yourself how can it not count as an Escape for MMR? Why would they make it an exception? Isn't the hatch there to give survivors an escape? If so how can it no count... Makes no sense.
Ask yourself why is there 20 Grades, same number as Ranks, if Grades don't matter for MatchMaking. Can't we have less Grades then? The Emblem system works the same no matter Ranks,Grades, Ranked MatchMaking, MMR, why? Why is progression exactly the same for both systems then? The Emblem system suffered no changes to reflect what is considered good or bad performance in a match, so you can have good Emblems and not up much in MMR but you'll go up in Grades. How can you get Iridescent Emblems and your MMR not change much because of who you faced? Ranks rewarded you for doing well against any and everyone. YOu got Iridescent Emblems? You rank up you face people in higher ranks. All The Rank MatchMaking needed was a stricter gap in matchmaking. Reduce the gap to 2 Ranks and then make ranking up harder in early stages so less skilled people don't get boosted early on and start screwing up the middle and high ranks. Also SWF does not belong in any sort of ranked/competitive system. Make SWF fuse with KYF and create a seperate playlist.
Regarding people on Forum tT's easy to assume most would enjoy it. Most are low MMR which is normal, not everyone plays DbD for hours and has all the experience and drive to play the game. So for those people MMR is helpful it lowers the chances of them facing good killers players or survivors, unless an SWF includes a really low MMR player to manipulate the average MMR of the group. The worst that can happen is facing smurfs or reverse boosters.
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It does take into account everything you bring in to make escapes or kills. Medkits, Toolboxs and Maps contribute to escapes. Since Medkits, Toolboxes and Maps contribute to escapes, and escapes are counted in SBMMR, then those items are taken into account. You have to realize that the end result is caused by everything you bring in, offering you choose and killers you play.
Escaping or making a Kill are all a result of what perks you choose, what you do during the match, items you brought in and maps. Everything flows into that one condition, kill or escape.
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Yes.
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Hell no
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No. But mostly just because they for some reason revealed how MMR works. But... why? I can now expect more survivors to leave instead of going for end game saves just so their MMR stays up. That's boring. Immersed Claudette's that do nothing and die last are better rewarded than someone being chased for 4 gens.
Honestly the old bloodpoint system would probably work better. I can't remember the exact BP you needed to black pip, pip and double pip but let's just go back to that system :).
Perhaps adjust the BP pipping threshold a bit if needed and change the rank reset to a colour above your current rank and you're good to go. (I genuinely wouldn't mind the old ranking system despite some of its problems).
Edit: I'm actually now remembering the issues with the old BP pipping system such as killers which gain BP easily being used to pip easily. And a few other issues... but yeah...
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That's exactly what happened before though. It's why I stopped solo queuing a long time ago. Players in this game, most of the time, are incredibly selfish. Even if you risk a lot to save them, they couldn't even return the favor for not even a quarter of the risk. So let's not act like this is something new. That's a player problem that's ALREADY existed before any MMR. Same with hatch campers. This is nothing new.
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Seems like the majority of people are neutral/don't care given that the population didn't drop off.
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Yeah
But the system in how it works is functionally stupid imo
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Based on escapes not skill if a survivor just runs around doesn't do any gens and escapes they get positive MMR while someone who does all the gens loops the killer but dies first loses the most MMR....escapes should not be the only thing that goes towards MMR. Yes if you die you should get negative points to MMR but other things should be considered.
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Hard no
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Okay.
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No
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I'm not okay with them revealing what increases or decreases your MMR.
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BIG F-N NO!
How is the simple act of escaping considered the item of skill, when the players that get carried get out, and the ones who run the killer, unhook, take hits, and keep the killer engaged are considered unskilled by this metric.
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Why. Would. Anyone. Try. To. Increase. Their. MMR?
Everyone keeps saying "there's no incentive to play fair because you can increase your MMR by playing cheap for easy kills/escapes" or "there's no reason to play as a team because selfishness increases MMR."
But increasing your MMR does nothing for you!
That's why it's hidden! It's not a goal, there is no prize, there is no incentive.
You're all insane.
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I just play the game and do my dailies/ tome challenges as they become available.
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No
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Well I suppose the main reason to increase your MMR is so that you have supposedly better teammates, not the equivalent of rank 20's at low MMR. Another reason would be to play against more challenging opponents and to feel like you're progressing in terms of skill.
I used to watch Tru3Ta1ent and with the old emblem system he always wanted to pip, seemed to always check if he had. If he didn't, he'd be disappointed. He's competitive. Some people are competitive like him and will do whatever to increase their skill level... in this case their MMR. Hopefully this answers your question.
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This is how I feel about the MMR
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NO.
I can't believe they spent at least 1 year and a half and 3 test for such a basic system.
Post edited by Avilgus on1
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