Visit the Kill Switch Master List for more information on this and other current known issues: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/299-kill-switch-master-list
Get all the details on our forums: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436478/sign-up-now-to-receive-a-recap-of-your-2024-dead-by-daylight-stats/p1?new=1
Actually SBMM did a pretty good job IMO
It made lots of killer main streamers who get use to play with potato baby survivors realize that this game is absolutely survivor-sided.
Especially new Spirit's father Scott Jund.
Can't wait to see his new Spirit video against high MMR survivor.
Or we will never see it?
I'm looking forward to the update. :)
Comments
-
Maybe it did on the high end, but the system is extremely broken.
For example, I am a new player with 60 hours into the game as a killer and I am constantly being matchmade with 1.5k hours survivors.
If you think that's a good system, its not, it just drives new people away from the game and is very broken.
You cannot tell me that a 60 hours killer is the same skill level with 1.5k hours survivors.
13 -
Scott already knew the game was survivor sided in higher levels.
8 -
SBMM mostly just pairs killers with survivor teams of vastly higher skill level, it's not really a very good system in any way.
6 -
Perhaps.
He didn't do anything until SBMM go lives, then made bunch of videos about complaining the environment (look at the medkit video).
Apparently he can't analyze this game objectively.
He just feel, then talk.
4 -
Anyone with any game sense can see the game is objectively survivor sided. Anyone who said or continues to say the game isn't is blinded by their own skill at killer.
5 -
Or their own skill at survivor, really.
3 -
Most streamers I've seen say the game is killer sided are insanely good hardcore killer mains who stomp most of their enemies. They're good at killer so they think everyone else is too for some reason lol.
7 -
I don't think I've ever seen a good player say the game was killer-sided, personally.
4 -
Oh I promise you people think like that. A few of my favorite killer streamers have said it before and I just gotta pretend I didn't hear it.
0 -
And SBMM puncture their pink bubbles and grab them back to the reality lol
2 -
Anyone who has played against competent Survivors could tell you the game is Survivor sided, SBMM is just shining a light on this issue which had been present for years.
3 -
The game is globally total garbage. The game design is flawed to a point i don't understand how some features, map, perks are still in the game.
Honestly, at that point, i would really like to discuss with the chief game designer to see how the ######### he/she could have validated so much bullshit into one single game.
- Half the maps are completely survivor sided to a point you can't do anything as a killer when you face a competent team : 0 line of sight, buildings, pallets, windows, objects everywhere
- Some perks are broken and have too much a game changer power : Noed, Devour hope for exemple
- Hex regressing perks are useless and are cleansed in 30 seconds at a fairly good mmr
- Fact that survivors can all equip full meta perks is dumb and unbalance the game even more
- Aim assist on PC that ######### your aim up half the time
- Survivors' items are broken aswell, unbalancing the game from 70/30 to 90/10
Atm i'm learning nurse. I'm terrible with her and so i'm bad everytime in any circumstances but it allows me to clearly constate the game's flaws, especially because i'm so bad that everything is exacerbated. Some feqtures are here for years now, unfixed even though we have asked the devs to fix their damn game.
What i saw is that killer queues are now instant no matter the time you play while as a survivor you have to wait for 10 minutes (EU region). It shows how the killer playerbase is massively quitting.
Also, their 50% kill rate is bullshit. I have a 50% kill rate, i get stomped one trial with 0k to 1k then i stomp the whole team the next one with 3k to 4k. Every trials i play are totally unbalanced and unfun but averaging them makes it look "balanced" on the paper.
With DbD we are far, far, really far from the quality standard fixed by Valorant, Counter Strike, L4D, old Battlefield etc...
8 -
The peak players number will soon be under 50k. It will happen end of this week or next week.
Last time it has been so low was in early 2020. 🙄
We can clearly see the massive decrease after a long constant playerbase, 1 week after the last patch release.
Post edited by JohnWeak on4 -
Depends on your mmr. You are only just learning nurse meaning your mmr is low. Survivors are compacted at the low ranks because they have no reason to get better, and surviving is optional for their gameplay since most just want chases and to make saves etc.
Killer will kill survivors by just playing normally. They have no other objectives or reason for playing so are concentrated at higher mmr making q times longer the higher you go.
0 -
Fact is i think my MMR with nurse is not low 😂.
I mean, you know they have tweaked SBMM like "if you are a high MMR killer with Blight (for exemple) then your first game as a nurse will be at a MMR of 0.8 x Blight MMR.
So i'm learning nurse against average++ survivors... And that's atrocious as i can't properly learn the TP...
About killer queues, BHVR has said that there were more killers than survivors on High MMR = longer queue for killers. It was like 2 or 3 weeks ago, and yes, as a killer my queue times were around 5 to 10 minutes but now it shifted completely.
0 -
valorant
quality standard
idk about that one
not necessarily true, if one of your killers had high MMR at MMR launch then they decided every single killer should be astronomically high
apparently being a good wraith means i'm an insane huntress and pinhead (killers i've barely touched)
1 -
Is this a sbmm or a scott jund thread? I can't tell.
1 -
I would not compare DbD with symetrical games. Matchmaking and MMR in games like League are easier than for DbD because of the nature of the game. You can just throw in 5 people on either side who are closly even in MMR and expect the match to go a normal way. This is something that can not be done for DbD.
That is way this game is not "garbage". It has issues as any other game. Just that asymetrical games have other issues that symetrical games.
The decline in players you show has multiple reasons. First of all we had an all time high with the release of Nemesis. This killer is a powerhouse of marketing and has no doubt attracted many players to the game. Then the pandemic is coming down thus enabeling more activities over all aside from sitting at home. Also Cenobite was well executed but not that hyped compared to other Killers. He was releases and now we face the usual mid-chapter decay in player numbers.
I would argue that the playerbase is still shrinking because of SBMM. However not as much as the curves suggest. Maybe a re-evaluation would be in due after the release of the mid-chapter patch.
You pointed out some good things however: Hex: Ruin is not a good solution for map size and Killers. The slowdown should be individual per Killer in order to adjust their performance. A Killer like Myers should have other slowdown as a Killer like Nurse.
Also the problem for the Killer side is that you do not have any good slowdown on the base Killers. Hex: Ruin and Pop are the most prominent perks for slowdown. Neither is avaiable for new player thus making the entry barrier higher than it should be.
The map problem is also down to this. A big map should impact both sides the same way: Survivor have longer travle time when going from generator to generator and saving other from the hook. This should in theory impact them just as much as a Killer. A fact is that it does not.
This however comes down to spawn points. Maybe you saw that video of Scott Jund elaboration about spawns? He used Leath Pursuier to show how survivors spawn and how that impacted his match. The conclusion was that a spawn where all survivor start seperated is a problem. The Killer can start one chase but 3 generators or 1 1/2 generator and 2 hexes will pop, leading the Killer to a very bad match. Now if you loose because you made a bad decision this would be fine. But even with a perfect chase the Killer will be in an uphill battle leading to a loss.
Quick messures to fix this?
Well, change spawn points and add a slowdown perk for new players. Lower the entry barrier and make Killer a more satisfying role to play.
1 -
Just like the title.
It's a article which praise SBMM.
0 -
I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to? I have been saying medkits are the strongest things survivors can bring for well over a year. In fact, here's proof:
MMR hasn't changed any of that. I don't really know what you're talking about. I've also made videos about map design being a problem, survivor spawns being a problem, DS Unbreakable, like what do you want man. You can't just ignore all of the killer sided stuff I make and then say I'm survivor sided.
0 -
Not going to lie, the schadenfreude from watching all of the egos shatter made mmr worth it.
2 -
Dude I didn't say you're survivor sided. After all you're a famous killer main. I said you can't analyze the game correctly before you play against pretty good survivors frequently, it means you play with lots of potato survivors before the SBMM, resulting in miscalculation in balance. Anyway, I still look forward to your Spirit video. Please use the clips which against really good survivors.
2 -
I agree with you on many points.
What is sad though is that an asymetrical game like Evolve, which was way more balanced and fair than DbD died because of unbalance... DbD is in a terrible state now, it should have improved throughout the years but it didn't, it just worsens.
I will check the video you are referring to :).
0 -
SBMM actually extrapolated all the flaws of the game.
Before SBMM, there was one toolbox/medkit, now you get 2 green toolboxes/full addons with 2 yellow medkits/full addons.
Before SBMM you had some funny survivor build, now you get DS, DH, Unbreakable, BT, IW...
1 -
Some other players constating exactly the same thing than me about the bs 50% is balanced :
It's obvious that the devs are creating artificial balance to show great numbers on the paper while actually nothing is balanced and they auto-congrate themselves like "the game has never been so balanced, we are an awesome team".
I'm wondering if those guys even read twitter, youtube comments/see youtube contents and read this forum. 80% of the visible community has exactly the same mind about SBMM...
1 -
Well by that logic every content creator opinion was irrelevant before SBMM so why single me out
2 -
The reality unfortunately is that SBMM imo as both killer and survivor has added absolutely no value. In fact i would say i probably escape less as a survivor than if im paired with a randomly skilled killer or rank based killer, and as a killer i got more kills against survivors with the old system.
I actually was optimistic about SBMM but i can categorically say it just doesnt do what its meant to.
I have about 100 hours of 1500+ playing killer and i go against people with 2k hours and get stomped. Just doesnt make sense.
If they wanted to make it 'feel' more fair then i think the best thing they could do is make the secret SBMM values much more impactful after each game so you get a significantly harder or easier matchmaking depending on how the previous 1-3 games went. This way you could at least see the difference SBMM makes.
I believe the current values are so minimal in difference after each game that it could effectively take hundreds of games of losses or wins to even remotely find a 'fair' sweet spot. - something i dont think is possible as theres too much assynetry and RNG influencing each match.
At least with a big 'score' change in SBMM you would feel like youve played a couple bad games then had a couple good ones, and ultimately that feel good factor is better than the current system which is wishywashy and doesnt really achieve anything.
0 -
Now playing for just one killer it happens like this, I lose the first game and the next time they give me a weak one and I win it 3-4k, then the next time they give me a strong team which I lose and don't even do 1k, and then it starts cycle. This system cannot give me balance.
0 -
Sorry to let you feel be singled out.
You are the most famous guy in my DBD friend group for some reason idk, so I take you as an example.
0 -
The game isnt survivor sided, it's SWF sided.
Stop paying so much attention about what streamers think/say, and start playing the game for yourselves.
5 -
and what if I play the game for myself and come up with the same opinion from my own experience? what then?
0 -
Then you dont play solo Q enough and probably dont have many hours in it.
2 -
Not really.
4 single A- survivors still can destroy an A+ killer.
By the way, I already retired from killer and play SWF.
It actually brings me pure happiness.
Playing killer only comes with pressure.
2 -
Oh so you just said you play SWF. Not sure if you're new to the survivor side, but SWF and solo is quite different.
And people like to say they see a lot of 4 really good solo survivors in their lobbies, but that's not really the actual reality of 80% of the games.
5 -
and what if I do play solo Q enough and have plenty of hours in it? what then?
0 -
Clearly you don't
2 -
It should be illegal to call this game "survivor sided" for someone who hasn't played at least 500 hours as a solo survivor.
5 -
I'm not just seeing. I really do it.
Got both R1 since 2018 so I think I'm not new to this game , and I am an A- survivor.
I used to solo with other solo fans in a streamer's KYF game, which Blight was chosen.
This streamer usually got 4k before SBMM, and we got easy 4e in that game.
So I think if survivors are good enough, not even to the best, they can destroy any killer without a doubt.
1 -
Wait Spirit is Scott Jund’s daughter? That means that Scott Jund is my father-in-law.
4 -
Wake up!!! lol
0 -
So am I...i want to see how long survivor lobbies will get once killers leave🤗
0 -
So that's the skill problem not balance problem
0 -
It did change from "you only see teams like this once in hundreds of games" or "dbd tournament isn't real dbd" to "I hate going against sweat squads with meta builds, items, and map offerings every match."
2 -
The same guy that calls you "little pp" if you use ruin.
1 -
He called pre-nerf DS Unbreakable small pp and Ruin Undying Tinkerer small pp. He never said you have a small peen if you just use Ruin, and even then he never said small pp build = small pp, it was just a name for the builds for being absolute crutches.
I don't think you've watched his content.
0 -
I would go further saying that 4 single B survivors that are not dumb and know the basic "spread and do gens" can outplay a S killer if it's not a nurse.
2 -
Basically, if nurse don't use distance addons, she would still be outplayed by gen rush.
Outplayed by gen rush sounds really weird...
1 -
I don't know which killer streamers you watch, but the ones I do still dominate the vast majority of their pub matches. Pretty sure Scott also still wins most of his. Public matchmaking is still killer-sided.
In fact, let me look at Scott's recent games to make it obvious for you:
Wraith - 4k
Plague - 3k (preventable hatch)
Plague - 4k
Blight - 2k
Demo - 0k
Demo - 4k
Pig - 2k
Pig - 4k
Leatherface - 3k (preventable hatch)
Myers - 3k (preventable hatch)
Ghostface - 1k
Billy -4k
Billy - 0k
Billy - 4k
Nemesis - 4k
Trickster -2k
Leatherface - 4k
Demo - 4k
Demo - 0k
Demo - 0k
Demo - 1k
Demo - 2k
Demo - 4k
Myers - 2k
Myers - 2k
Myers - 3k
Oni - 1k
Blight - 3k
Blight - 4k
Blight - 0k
Wraith - 4k
Demo - 4k
Demo - 4k
This comes out to an average of 2.6 kills, or a 65% killrate. So he's overperforming, even without playing the strongest killers or using the strongest add-ons. What can also be noted is that this does not even account for the amount of hooks he got in the games - he doesn't usually camp or tunnel hard, so he has games like the Oni 1k where he had 9 stages, meaning everyone that escaped was one hook away from death. The same is true for most of the non-3/4k rounds. So yeah, if his MMR experience would actually lead him to believe the game is "absolutely survivor-sided", he must not be very objective. Of course, he knows that the core balance leans toward survivor from the one-in-a-thousand-matches occurrences where he actually plays against a group of 4 survivors each as experienced and competent at the game as he is, but that's still vanishingly rare an occurrence in MMR. Besides, tournaments have shown time and again that even against 4 highly-skilled and highly-coordinated survivors on voice comms, highly-skilled killers can absolutely get 2-4 kills, even with killers other than Nurse, Spirit and Blight (with which they can do so consistently). The game is just not nearly as survivor-sided as people make it out to be.
1 -
Skill on survivor is.... almost non-existent when they can just run second chance perks to make up for their mistakes while also having items, fast gen speeds, etc.
1
