Slugging:
Comments
-
I mean, he didn't say anything about it either, to be fair.
I will agree that it isn't necessarily about fun, but I don't agree that it isn't fun for either side. Getting slugged s'better than getting ran off two hooks at five gens, again.
0 -
I didn't say it isn't fun. But if i want to try catch your teammate then I will slug u and if u played killer u should understand why it's necessary because if i choose to hook u, u most likely give up and it's game over.
But if u think only about yourself then there's nothing to talk about.
0 -
I, unlike others, do not give up on first hook.
Post edited by Pulsar on1 -
Okay, cool--you're either just being rude or deliberately misunderstanding, good to know. Get a hug from someone you love, and try this sort of thing again tomorrow, yeah?
I'd give you a thumbs-up, but I feel that'd be patronizing. I applaud your attempts to have a fair discussion and be the voice of reason; best of luck next time when people don't completely miss the point you're making and arguing.
I genuinely appreciate you, and wish you well.
0 -
If I down a survivor and I see another one, I'm going after them, leaving the first on the ground. If I see a third trying to heal the first after I've downed the second, I'm going after the third and leaving the first two on the ground. Same with a fourth.
I slug because they make me slug. If you don't want me to slug, don't try to heal and get your teammates up. By getting your teammates up, you're stopping me from getting hooks. And if you're stopping me from getting hooks, that just pisses me off. LOL
Survivor is already cakewalk-y if I go meta, so I'm not worried about if I get slugged.
1 -
Many killers don't "overlook" these "many aspects". They just don't do it because bleeding out a survivor doesn't award any points for sacrifices. There is a difference between a kill and a sacrifice, bleeding out a survivor doesn't give you any points for the effort, because you aren't doing anything.
If you were using this no point strategy to do something like stay in low MMR and bleed out inexperienced players over and over because it is "fun" for you, whatever, but it sounds like you are taking this game way too seriously. Not saying you do that, but if you do, then yeah, maybe it's time for a break.
0 -
Knock Out isn't an effective perk either. It can be good against solos. SWF ruins the perk.
2 -
To me, most of the time, threes just no incentive to slug over hook. The main times I slug are when I down someone and know another survivor is close by, or if someone pulls a Borrowed Timeless rescue right in front of me (slug the rescued survivor, go after rescuer).
I'm the latter case, I make no effort to re-hook the slugged survivor because tunneling off hook is one thing I hate when I play survivor, so Itry not to do it when I'm killer. I'm not above the slug since it forces either use it Unbreakabke or someone to leave for the pickup.
Outside of that and the odd circumstance here and there, i feel no incentive to slug because I play for Bloodpoints and I get t more by hooking than slugging. Plus grade/ rank is hurt by survivors bleeding out vs dyimg on hook, and since grade offers BP now that's even less reason to go out of my way to slug.
0 -
Is there supposed to be a point somewhere in that rambling mess of (not so) veiled condescension?
0 -
Dude you should look into the Slug Meta.
Ill give you two examples:
1. Pig; Add Ons: Face Mask + Last Will (Blindness always active when trap is on, +1 Box) Knock Out, Infectious Fright, Ruin, Undying.
Alternatives: Deathbound for roaming without crouching, Third Seal is you like hit and run.
Goal: M1 and keep them down, make survivors rush gens with ruin so they kill eachother with traps, give them zero downtime and your constant attention to down, play with them a little and watch their heads pop to mix up the 4k bleed out win. Never use Hooks. Make them want to give up.
2. Freddy; Red Paintbrush (Everyone is asleep, failing skillchecks won't wake them up, Hooking will mever wake them up because you never hook.)
Knockout, Ruin, Undying, Surveillance work great if you fake teleports often, lets you know if someone jumps off a gen and you can cancel your power and cut them off because nobody wants to risk laying on the ground for 3 minutes while everyone leaves you to die.
Knock Out may be the best option but Add Ons and playstyles are out their.
Tip 1: Doctor can find and shock the last survivor easily to tier 3 madness and they cant pick up slugs, you can mess with the last survivor and make them watch their team die while they stand their helplessly trying to snap out of it.
Tip 2: get yourself a ruler or eyeball it, pick up a survivor near the level of blood left till bleed out and line up their bars, they will bleed out at the same moment and hatch won't open. If you had them waste Unbreakable you can walk away and let them die alone without attention.
Tip 3: Watch out for Soul Gaurd, if one has it leave them for last or let them break your totems.
Tip 4: Learn how to tell if someone has Unbreakable by discovering the trick. If you figure it out don't tell Survivors. Shhh..
1 -
Sure, let me point it out for you since you do not understand. The main point is in the first and second sentence. The third sentence supports the first two. The second paragraph is a separate message directed toward you if you are demonstrating the behavior described.
0 -
Awesome on-topic post.
Thanks for the builds and tips.
1 -
You say there aren't that many Slugging perks, but I disagree. As said in many posts before, there are perks like Infectious and Third Seal that help in Slugging. Yes, they aren't DIRECTLY related, but they have many synergies with it. I would say Sloppy also can be used as a Slugging perk, since healing is slower. Same goes for Dying Light, for which you need to hook...
As for the reason there aren't that many perks for Slugging...:
The devs are trying to decentivize killers from Slugging. Same reason why Prove Thyself was nerfed.
I personally don't hope new Slugging perks will be added, cuz I think it isnt fun. Yes, you could say that hooking and Slugging have the same effect: it disables the survivor from doing the objective and forces other survivors to come get them. But in the meantime hooked survivors have max 2 minutes (1 minute per hook-stage), bleeding out takes 4 minutes, as I understand from posts before.
The reason I don't like getting slugged, is because I can't do anything for that time. Yes I can crawl and recover. But I can't do anything else.
Getting hooked is faster, it only takes 2 minutes to die, maximum. But you also have the option to just #########, which you do not when getting slugged.
By getting slugged you are forced to do nothing the whole game, and sit out the whole game.
So yes, by Slugging you are indeed an ass, if you do it from the start. I understand it if you did it in endgame, and then hooked everyone right after.
1 -
1) Per my understanding, Sloppy doesnt affect heal time when slugged, nor does it increase bleeding while slugged. Indirectly though Sloppy hit Survivors, if allowed to bleed by Killer or dont "mend" (which doesnt require perk/medkit or another player), will be closer to death if/when a Sloppy Killer finally decides to slug them down, permanently.
2) As I said, and you agree, Knock Out is the only slug mechanic specific perk on Killer side.
3) Whether you think being slugged is "less fun" than being hooked, is really neither here nor there. And whether its "less fun" for Survivors is cancelled by it being "more fun" for Killers, so its arbitrary. Game is ofc supposed to be "fun" but some things are mandatory, though not "fun". For example M1 on gens is arguably not "fun" either, but is required to win for Survivors.
4) The option to "#########" while hooked is a pyrrhic choice, unless you are suggesting that a slugged Survivor should be able to somehow kill themselves also.
5) The duration of hook stages to death, and slugged bleeding to death, is an interesting comparison. But its countered by the fact that if a slugged is 99% healed, pickup is nigh instantaneous, whereas de-hooking takes a few seconds and can be grabbed on the process. Either way, altruism is forced unless the team is prepared to lose a member.
6) Calling sluggers/slugging an "ass" move, and those that do it "asses" is arguably rather toxic. I dont mind you doing so, that doesnt "offend" me, especially as this is a discussion thread on a topic and not personal, but on your part its not a valid argument either on the topic.
7) Slugging is a core mechanic, snd fundamental to the game. Every single hook is preceeded by a slugging (unless rarely grabbed), THATS how integral it is. Its ubiquitous and happens all the time.
As such, its a mechanic that ought not just be ignored, but taken very seriously in balance concerns and game development of especially perks/abilities that affect it.
8) Thus my argument and point of this thread, to seriously look at what slugging is and its part in this game as a core mechanic, and not just write it off/ignore it as somehow trivial, which it certainly is not.
Post edited by Rhoska on0 -
enter new anti slug perk. every time some one is put into a dying state you heal 5% of your recovery if your slugged at the time.
0 -
"it constantly means survivors have no breathing time"
- That's kind of the killer's job, isn't it? To make sure you have no breathing time?
- Sounds like the shoe's on the other foot then, since most of the time it's the killer who has no breathing time and has to scurry around like a rat trying to scratch a few hooks together. Killers are supposed to be the power role, after all.
2 -
Im more concerned with slug perks/abilities regarding Killers, as slugging IS a Killer related mechanic rather than Survivor. Its Killers that use/need slugging to fulfill objectives. Its part of their options.
But yes, further focus on this core mechanic also opens up the potential for interesting Survivor related perks on being slugged.
Overall my purpose in this thread is to raise up into discussion this (core) aspect of the game that has seen remarkably little focus.
Its taken for granted without afterthought, and I think thats a missed opportunity for meta development also. Perhaps even at best, slugging could turn into its own form of more involving mini-game.
0 -
the problem is most players killers and survivors agree slugging is boring and unfun gameplay so asking them to focus on that aspect further then it already is, would really only hurt the game and drive away some of the player base. however I would love to see a survivor perk that allows us to speed up the bleed out process, because if i am on the ground more then 1 min I just go afk.
0 -
See the biggest issue is slugging is probably the most powerful tool in the killers arsenal infact its part of their base kit. it hardly needs more perks focused on that core aspect when it is already so strong as it is. In fact this reminds me of something I read years ago on the steam forums long before you started playing so lets see if this sounds about right?
Killers said ages ago looping was unfun game play they cried and whined and behavior has spent the last 4 years reducing survivors abilities to loop killers, exhaustion changes, reduced the amount of safe loops and has really made an attempt to rid the maps of infinites this game right now is nothing like it was three years ago and nothing like it was 5 years ago. they have focused the new killers designs on killers that are anti loop as well. and most these changes I have totally agreed with they was needed.
Im more concerned with looping perks/abilities regarding Survivors, as looping IS a Survivor related mechanic rather than Killer. Its Survivors that use/need looping to fulfill objectives. Its part of their options.
But yes, further focus on this core mechanic also opens up the potential for interesting Killer related perks on being looped.
Overall my purpose in this thread is to raise up into discussion this (core) aspect of the game that has seen remarkably little focus.
Its taken for granted without afterthought, and I think thats a missed opportunity for meta development also. Perhaps even at best, looping could turn into its own form of more involving mini-game.
see asking for something already so strong to be buffed even further is just outright nuts.
0 -
This makes no sense.
I addressed this earlier, in that this line of your "reasoning" regarding Survivors committing deliberate suidice to get out of the Trial, is already reconciled in that you can leave match or DC, whether hooked, slugged or not.
I dont think you are understanding that you are defeating your own argument and unduly complicating what this actual topic is about, which is core slugging mechanics and perks/abilities related to that.
0 -
Loops and that mechanic are an entirely different topic, and have nothing to do with slugging, which is the topic here.
Please try to keep on topic, specific to slugging.
Your transposing of, and "mirroring" what I said verbatim, substituting "looping" for "slugging" is irrelevant and off topic.
They are two completely different things.
Post edited by Rhoska on0 -
Because there is actually gameplay
1 -
How is hooking more "actual gameplay" than slugging?
Remember, that each and every hook is preceeded by a slugging (unless grabbed, and in which case the Killer can drop the grabbed Survivor also, thus slugging).
Slugging thus IS actual gameplay, and a core mechanic.
0 -
If you are on a hook you can struggle to ######### or choosing to wait for your team to save you.
I know slugging is real gameplay, I was just exaggerating how boring it can be for the slugged survivor.
0 -
Hooked can struggle, perhaps get off.
Slugged can crawl and hide.
Arguably its not "fun" for any Survivor to be in either state, but thats also what is "fun" and necessary for the Killer.
Its the Killers choice to hook or slug, its part of the actual gameplay.
1 -
@Rhoska Just play more survivor and then find out how much fun the games are that are played with your approach.
Then maybe you'll understand what some here meant by "it's not fun for the other side".
Don't get me wrong, play how you want if it's not against the rules, but you're taking away a lot of elements of the game that are fun for you and your opponents when you drive this "strategy".
1 -
I play Survivor/Killer 50/50.I swap when either makes me rage. Usually play about a week before switching.
Note: I NEVER SWF with voice comms.
You however, your entire modus stinks of Survivor bias.
You are still stuck on the fallacy that slugging is "not fun" for Survivor (whereas its in many senses preferable to being hooked, as you dont get hook stage and have somewhat of a chance even to manage crawl/hide till pickup, and you are COMPLETELY ignorimg that slugging can be fun for killer and is a core mechanism of Killers.
2 -
Hey I too get in a slugging mood occasionally ... its best for me not to read chat those days lol. Yes its valid and fair.
0 -
I only play solo q when I play Survivor, very rarely together with my wife. I have never played DbD with Comm.
I play 50/50 and for my part I try to spare my opponent play styles that I personally do not enjoy.
And as a killer, slugfests just aren't fun for me. I'd rather hook in, collect my points, and go hunting for the next one. In my eyes - and I make it clear once again what I also said in the previous post: Play how you want, if it's within the rules - that's the way I want to play and enjoy the game.
You asked for opinions. That was mine.
And finally, a question: when you're out as a solo survivor, do you enjoy Slugfest?
Everyone should play how they want - but everyone should be able to respect other opinions on a topic.
0 -
1) Glad to hear you also dont use voice comms to abuse the game system.
2) Glad to hear also that you also split 50/50 between Killer and Survivor. Its the best way to play this game for many reasons, and to enjoy both "sides" of what it provides.
3) As to slugging, hooking may earn you more BP in the short run, but slugging can win you the match when hooking wouldnt, and/or more BPs in the long run. And BPs arent necessarily the end-goal anyways.
4) The "fun" factor for Survivors or Killers of slugging is arbitrary. As Survivor, only rarely have I been slugged for long (either Killer comes back to hook, or a Survivor picks me up), but as Killer, I have capitalized on it as a mechanic, and thats the whole point of this thread/discussion.
But flat out I will say, that running matches as Killer in which I specifically remind myself that I dont "have to" hook dying Survivors, have been some of my more memorable and interesting. The "hook" mechanic is an optional crutch, and it can be very satisfying to ignore it in part and just focus on knocking down everything that moves.
As a Survivor, paradoxically, I much prefer being slugged to being hooked. Each hook makes me static, forces teammates to dehook me and makes me closer to death, whereas when slugged I can atleast crawl around, pressure is less immediate for others to pick me up, and I dont get 1/3 closer to death by hook.
5) I want to promote discussion on this core mechanic and what is involved in it. Im aware of Survivor concerns regarding it, but its integrally a Killer mechanic, and whether its "fun" or efficient is in the Killers purview.
0
