I Think Survivors Need Tweaks to be a bit more fair at higher mmr.
Ok, Well Let Me Start Off By Saying I Am Going To Split This Into A Few Category's. Lets Begin. Shall we?
Gen Speeds.
As you may or may not know. When you're chasing your first survivor 2 gens will most likely be popped. And gens overall just pop stupidly fast, I have had multiple survivor do all generators in 5 minutes with some survivors even doing all 5 generators in a matter of 3 minutes in the game, which sounds like a bit of time but in retrospect. It really isn't. Overall my idea is to either slow down gen speeds or make it so you have to do 7 gens and 9 spawn on the map. But a penalty for killers is that the gens are now spread out a bit more so it does even out a bit.
Maps.
Maps can be very killer sided (dead dawg, the game, Hawkins, midwitch etc) or very survivor sided (mothers dwelling, gas heaven, Badham preschool, rotten fields, fractured cowshed, Lampkin Lane). The maps can go on both ends of the scale and both should be adjusted accordingly to be more fair for both sides.
Loops.
Oh boy this is gonna be fun. and before anything I don't wanna hear any "But Nurse Blink, But Blight Rush, But Lopro chains" or any of that. This is one of the biggest issues in conjunction with generator speeds. I truly think that this needs some tweaks to make it a bit more fair. Unless you're using the nurse or hag or killers that can play around loops you're going to lose 2 gens unless you leave them, meaning you have wasted your time on them, 2 infinite loop examples (there are more) the huntress can be infinite looped in Haddonfield's house of pain, you can also infinite loop most killers at the log in backwater swamp and you can infinite loop on Hawkins. There's a bit of powerful loops in Badham with a metric but-ton more in Haddonfield. And in my opinion they should be tweaked accordingly. Which can take time. Which i do understand.
Items/ OP Add-ons/Offerings.
As you may know, in my last post I created some ways to make the items/add-ons more fair. I will post that below.
Flashlights:
Remove The Ability To Save, This May Sound Stupid But You Will See Why In A Minute.
Make The Flashlight Have Half The Time To Blind And A 1.5x Blind Duration From What It Is Now.
Toolboxes:
I Took Inspiration From Otzdarva, Actually The Whole Thing, Go To His Vid To See That. if you cant be asked TL;DR Below.
TL;DR: Full repairs instead of repairs, cant be regressed past full repairs.
Brand new part should instantly give you 10% full repair.
Med kits:
Bring Them A Little Closer To Self Care Numbers And Increase All Their Charges Respectively,
styptic agent should be 5 seconds so there is less of a window. 16 charges required to use and will take 16 charges.
Haemorrhagic syringe should not be changed expect from have 16 charges to use and will take 16 charges, like styptic agent.
Maps:
Not Much To Say On This One, Buff Their Duration and range a bit.
NEW ITEM: Tasers
This is what I have in mind for the replacement to flashlight saves. Hope you Like it!
So,
tasers should stun the killer for 4 seconds, the only drawback being you have to get close to the killer.
Tasers have 32 charges, and 1 stun takes 10 charges.
You recharge the 20% when a generator is completed.
MAX Charges With Add-ons Is 60,
NEW ITEM: Stun Gun:
You can use it up to 8 metres away. The stun gun stuns for 3 seconds, drawback being you have to reload it, limited uses, and less stun time than tasers. You have a maximum amount of 5 reloads. This cannot be influenced by add-ons
Keys:
The keys are completely fine as of next patch, I think it should instantly open the hatch though, because only 1 survivor can be left to use it.
This is really it, But with all darkness also comes light. So with all this in mind I do think killers should also take a bit of the heat so its not just a slap in the face for survivors. So here you go survivors.
Survivors should be able to 4% the hook even when all their teammates are dead.
Killers can no longer body block a pallet. Survivors should be able to drop the pallet through it.
If the killer camping a survivor for longer than 20 seconds they teleport to a new hook. if you're tunneling, you should move slower than the survivor if you chase the survivor that has just got off the hook (unless you're using nurse as she is already slower, blights power mitigates this too. and Oni's dash etc).
Feel free to share your thoughts, this is a conversation to discuss thoughts and thus should not have any toxicity involved.
Comments
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Gen Speeds.
As you may or may not know. when your chasing your first survivor 2 gens will be popped. and gens overall just pop stupidly fast, i have had survivors do all 5 gens in a matter of 3 minutes in the game, which sounds like a bit of time but in retrospect. it really isn't. overall my idea is to slow down gen speeds or make it so you have to do 7 gens and 9 spawn on the map. but a penalty for killers is that the gens are now spread out a bit more so it does even out a bit.
Okay, but only if every survivor gets a third hook state, and 15 secs on every hook state. To even that out.
Maps.
Maps can be very killer sided (dead dawg, the game, Hawkins, midwitch etc) or very survivor sided (mothers dwelling, gas heaven, Badham preschool, rotten fields, fractured cowshed, Lampkin Lane). The maps can go on both ends of the scale and both should be adjusted accordingly to be more fair for both sides.
Because of killer varierity and perk varierity, you cant just "adjust" it and done.
Loops.
oh boy this is gonna be fun. and before anything I don't wanna hear any "But Nurse Blink, But Blight Rush, But Lopro chains" or any of that. this is one of the biggest issues in conjunction with generator speeds. i truly think that this needs some tweaks to make it a bit more fair. unless your using the nurse or hag or killers that can play around loops your going to lose 2 gens unless you leave them, meaning you have wasted time on them, 2 infinite loop examples (there are more)the huntress can be infinite looped in Haddonfield's house of pain, you can also infinite loop most killers at the log in backwater swamp and you can a infinite loop on Hawkins. there's a ton of powerful loops in Badham with even more in Haddonfield. and in my opinion they should be tweaked accordingly.
Chasing and looping are a core part of the game. For both sides. Survivors should have the oppurtunity to loop someone, thats the point. To waste time. If you are a good killer or play a killer to anti loop, it shouldnt be a problem.
Flashlights:
Remove The Ability To Save, This May Sound Stupid But U Will See Why In A Minute.
Make The Flashlight Have Half The Time To Blind And A 1.5x Blind Duration From What It Is Now.
Blindness itself isnt even that good, killers hear much and more blindness would be less fun than actual save someone.
Also to safe someone with a flashlight is a high risk and it should be rewarded with a safe.
NEW ITEM: Tasers
This is what u have been waiting for,
Tasers should stun the killer for 8 seconds, the only drawback being you have to get close to the killer
tasers have 32 charges, and 1 stun takes 10 charges
MAX Charges With Add-ons Is 60,
NEW ITEM: Stun Gun:
this will be a bit less effective than the taser because you ca use it up to 10 metres away. stuns for 4 seconds, drawback being you have to reload it, and you have a max of 5 reloads, influenced by add-ons up to 15 reloads
So you want less loops and no flashlight safes, for tasers?
Also with multiple charges?
The killer will love this.
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I like the idea of tasers but they should get charges from completing gens so they dont get over used
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Tasers made me think you have no idea about game balance
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That sounds like a good idea!
Post edited by ShadowNurseZFX on0 -
I do? I mean maybe not for 8 seconds but I think it adds more items and more variety.
Post edited by ShadowNurseZFX on0 -
not at all, I want less powerful loops, they can stay as loops but need some tweaks, and yeah because it does not make sense that flashlights make the killer lose grip of you, tasers make more sense, "also with multiple charges?" I do not know what you mean by this
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Comments above ^ I have adjusted it accordingly.
Post edited by ShadowNurseZFX on0 -
items stunning killer is ridiculous concept. We have much more balanced flashbangs that just blind, require gen repair and precise timing to get killer blinded. And you just like "shoot that guy for 4s stun lol" or for 8 if you're close. 48 secs per survivor. 192 sec at max.
Let's stun killer for 21% of the game
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also, loops are insanely powerful right now if you can run them well. its really only a big problem at higher mmr, so the whole 7 gen thing with the weaker loops should be mostly for higher mmr to help the killer cope better. cuz higher mmr is really the only issue, and the only reason I have this issue. SBMM ######### up my experience and if they cant at least change some things for higher mmr then I don't even know what i am gonna do next,
TL;DR Survivors are balanced at low to mid mmr, and are a problem at high mmr. should have put this in the thing. I'm going to do that right now
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How you're putting it makes it sound a bit busted to be honest.
Post edited by ShadowNurseZFX on0 -
I did not read the whole thing here is another follow up.
For the third hook state and 15 secs every state that would be a minute to die if I'm correct, or 45 seconds, that is completely fine.
Now for your point about the maps.
This is 100% true and I do not expect it to come overnight and at the end of the day every map will have a loophole, but I do think they should at least try to bring some of the killer/survivor sided maps to be a bit more fair if they can, which I will say again, wont happen overnight.
This point is also very true, and in retrospect I'm only aiming at Haddonfield's insane loops with 1 infinite loop and the swap infinite log loop. and I know it is to waste time but I feel it wastes a bit too much time, then again it can be a misplay on my part sometimes so I tried to refrain from making this but I think that misplays should not be as punished as much as they are.
I don't think you read the flashlight part and only read the flashlight cant blind part. I said it should blind 2x faster and 1.5x blindness duration as compensation.
And yes for the tasers I think it should be 4 seconds like the stun gun except the stun gun only reloads 5 times not influenced by add-ons
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I'm sorry I can' keep reading this, the constant misuse of "your" in place of "you're" makes it hard for me to take anything you type seriously. If you can't take the time to check your grammar how can i trust you've thought out changes to the game?
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;-; what?
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I changed it. Happy now?
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I had been working on a reply to your first response but got a game so then when I come back from that I see you responded again.
I refresh to check and you didn't even fix the very first one that was wrong and removed the one that was correct in that sentence AND you have an incorrect usage later on now that I don't think was there before (" if your tunneling"). Is English not your first language? Any time you would say "you are" is when you use "you're".
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I am aware, and can I just say. Why do you care so much about spelling and punctuation? It does not make any sense.
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It shows me you are inconsiderate with your words, so why would I think you've considered what the changes you want to make would actually do to the game?
There is no rush to type a forum post, especially if you are the original poster. You've shown me that you didn't take the time to read though what you typed and make sure it was correct so how can I trust that you took the time to think on your suggestions?
You not caring that your grammar is wrong is another red flag, because if you don't care about that what else do you not care about? What part of game balance are you willing to ignore to change something else? It might be a small thing, but small things matter and I find this one important. When making a forum post your are trying to get others to agree with you, being inconsiderate with your words is not a good look for that end.
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Well, yeah I agree, this is true. One thing though is that I really spoke from the heart and what I have seen and what I believe in. I should have thought about my words and I will make sure to try better next time, the issue that I have is that I can easily confuse "your" with "You're" even though "Your" mean your house or like something that's well... Yours. with "You're" which is you are. i should know one by the other but I confuse them easily.
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honestly the flashlight things not totally bad they could just do an add on pass on flashlights and make different add ons do different things to the killer/survivor. how about a flashlight add on that don't save on blinds but instead grants a health state to the carried survivor the next time they land on the ground. or maybe if blinded the killers movement speed is reduced by a certian amount till that survivor is no longer being carried.
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i liek this idea, thought out, not complaining and explaining their idea. 10/10 and honestly I could see this being a thing
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The issue I Have with your overall idea, and this the problem with balancing in general is killers that are powerful, are so much more powerful then those that are weak, and nobody really wants to address this. Sure a trapper with say only one gen slow down perk lets say has a strength of 1, and will lose 95% of matches. But a nurse of spirit running(Corupt, tinker, undying ruin, ECT) is actually absurdly powerful. They would have a strength of say 15. It is ridiculous how strong killers can be, and lets be honest unless you are playing in a team that can coordinate, is really hard to beat. Do they lose at high mmr? Yes but they need to be realistically beatable by a team that is not a 4 man SWF. Either all killers need to be brought up to to the same strength as a nurse/ spirit, or the Nurse and Spirit need to be brought down to at least Bligh, before balancing anything else.
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Gen Speed
Boring. Don't touch number of gens, or speed. It's the most boring ######### and I definetly don't want more.
Maps
You can't just balance maps for everyone to be fair. You make them shorter, oh enjoy playing against fast killers like Blight, or Spirit. You make them bigger, yeah RIP 110% killers. You make them open, oh try to surviver Nurse, or Trickster. You make more line of sight cower, enjoy stealth killers.
You just can't.
Flashlights
Flashlights are fine.They are fun and sometimes fun to use. So no need to change. Don't fix that isn't broken.
Taser
Well, when I talked about broken -> this is super broken. You are really bad at theory crafting when you created something like this. This takes all value from your whole post. That's how broken it is.
the only drawback being you have to get close to the killer. Oh, wait, because killer doesn't need to get close to you, right? So not really an issue to do...
Let's have some fun math.
Tasers have 32 charges, and 1 stun takes 10 charges.
So you are going to have add-ons for duration, let's say extra 8 sounds possible.
So 40 charges.
4x Streetwise will get you 80 charges.
Build to last will get you to
238 charges, which is stun for 92 seconds, with 4 players running this build it is overall 368 second stun.
Oh, that sounds so much fun to play against.
Med-kit and toolboxes are just copy-paste from Otz, I agree with med-kits, but I don't know how I feel about toolboxes, that would need to be tested. It might be really effective counterplay against 3-gen.
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So my first comment was just feedback, let's see about how I would do it.
Gen speed
Would never try to touch gen speed as just number. That's really bad idea.
What would help without survivors suffering?
Fix spawns, survivors always spawn together and we can give them all offering that change spawns. That alone would help a lot and fix your 3 gens for 1 down problem.
Otherwise I would buff passive regression to 150% and nerf Ruin to 150%. That would bring more options for perks, so more variety in games, which is good thing.
Maps
Haddonfield -> remove that possible spawn of window above basement, that makes that map super broken.
RPD -> Badham approach. Split it into 2 maps at least.
Items
Flashlights are fine.
From Otz changes I really like: Offerings, med-kit and add-on changes. I don't know how I feel about tool-boxes, but it might be good enough to counter slow-down stacking.
Otherwise
Buff weak killers -> more variety in high MMR
Buff weak perks on both sides -> more variety in high MMR
Buff soloQ -> give them information that is easily shared for SWF, so it's not that bad experience.
Lower grind -> more noob friendly game.
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I agree that gens are a problem, but just making survivors have to do more of them doesn't really solve the issue. Sure it'll make them take more time, but that only translates to them holding M1 on more inanimate objects far away from you. In my opinion, gens should be harder to do and they should put you in danger, they should never be as safe as they currently are. Either that, or they need to have another objective that is more aggressive, where they actually get to outplay the killer instead of holding a button far away from everything.
I think that most survivor sided maps are way more survivor sided than killer sided maps are killer sided. Hawkins is going away anyways sadly. Dead Dawg is still quite powerful if you know what you're doing as a survivor. Midwich can be abused by W against any killer susceptible to it. I wouldn't even know how to begin addressing this issue, other than maybe the devs should really consider talking to better players of this game and having them do some playtesting of new stuff and different maps and taking the feedback honestly.
When it comes to loops, I think there is no good reason for safe loops to exist. Long wall jungle gyms are way too safe against too many killers. House of pain and the "i" loop in mcmillan and farm are ridiculously safe, it's not even joking. Shack should remain as it is, even if it is that safe. God pallets should not exist period. There is no reason this game should allow survivors to just predrop pallets, and have the pallets be so strong that all you can do is break it, not with the sheer amount of resources survivors have to stall you. It should be like this: "You wanna stall the killer? Make good reads and actually outplay them." Not "hold W for a bit, then safely press Space, then hold W some more and would you look at that 3 gens popped and you didn't have to you use your brain a single time."
I completely disagree with your idea for Flashlights. Flashlight saves are one of the few things survivors are asked to do in this game that requires some semblance of mechanical skill. You need good positioning, you need good timing and you need good accuracy. We need to encourage more things like this instead of ruining them.
For toolboxes, I absolutely love Otz's idea of full repair. Although I think there should be a cap on how much a gen has been full repaired and maybe even some indication to a killer that a gen has been full repaired to a certain amount.
I like your idea for medkits.
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Your idea for tasers is broken. 4 second stun is 16 meters a survivor can get ahead of you just recovering from the stun. Thats 26 seconds of holding W on M1 killers just to catch up again. And you're saying each survivor can use it up to 6 times? I don't think you understand how much time a single stun like that that ends a chase can damage a killer. Maybe a second or two at absolute most and you need to need to aim it for at least 0.3s, and the hitbox is as thin as deathslinger's harpoon with slower travel time, and you get max 3 uses or so with addons, and no recharge on gens, then we're talking.
That item would still be extremely powerful, cuz think about what you could do with it. You'd be able to guarantee saving yourself from a Blight rushing at you and force him into a cooldown, you'd be able to stun nurse out of a Blink, Wraith out of cloak, You'd be able to stop a Bubba from using his chainsaw which could serve really well to stop him from camping, maybe get a spirit out of phase, release a teammate from a Deathslinger and force him to reload, a legion out of frenzy, etc. It's so powerful that killers really need to be able to avoid it somehow.
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id say if every killer was on nurse, hag and blight and spirits level that would also suffice
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holy crap I never thought of tasers like that. #########. that slipped across my mind. yeah I guess you could make it so the item isn't affected by BTL as its electrical and its only source of getting charges back is 10 per gen done then you have about 90 charges 9 killer stuns per killer which is 36 per match, and the stun is 4 secs and 36x4=144 seconds and the fixed charges is 10 and cant be influenced. but I am not entirely sure, though I never took streetwise and BTL into account
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i like your idea. and as a way to buff soloQ make a game chat for survivors, not killer just the survivor's and that would hep a lot
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I also like this idea. and I agree with the taser idea. and the thing where no more flashlight saves and its taser saves would indirectly nerf lightborn, and the flashlights have incredibly stupid angles at times, which annoys me. I know I can just run lightborn but even though they're annoying I still feel its a waste of a slot. and they can repurpose the flashlights, quickly blind the killer, also they can use flashlights to cleanse totems 1.5x faster by shining at it then cleansing as light gets rid of dark, or like flashlights can be repurposed another way, I just don't feel like it makes sense, and that's why I asked for this change, but they can keep it i just think they should consider repurposing flashlights and making a correct item for the saving purpose
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You don't think 144 seconds stun is still broken?
DS is to be 16 seconds with limited condition to use and that is ######### perk.
You gave this way more than that and they can use it whenever they want.
Thing is, you wanted it instead of save with flashlight. With flashlight you need to time it really well. This? Just walk towards a killer na stun him any time you want and killer can't do a ######### about it
Even if it was 2 second stun with 1 use, it would be super hated.
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hmm. I guess so. there really is no in-between. I mean the thing that makes me want them to remove it is that its unrealistic and some angles you can save at are utterly ridiculous
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Main difference between dbd and other asymmetrical horror games is that in dbd you can't really attack a killer. So experience is way better for new killers and they are most likely to keep playing. You really don't wanna change that.
Flashlights can be countered, just look into the wall. Against this, even with 1 use, you will have to down 3-4 survivors before you will actually be able to hook anyone. That is not good experience.
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Ah, I see you've given the survivors a gun. This will end well.
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yeah. its optional
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