Toxic killers and contradictory rules that allow them
This isn't under anything important because it doesn't matter, just a point that has made me unwilling and uninterested in getting into DbD further.
First week I joined DbD it was great, played all the time, quite literally. So much so that my first altercation was someone calling me a liar about starting earlier that day and playing into the wee hours of the morning... And possibly pulling a 24 hour day to be able to keep playing. This was looking like my next obsession.
My first toxic players were actually fellow survivors getting mad at me for skill checks on my literal first day lol No big deal if they got too ugly I do what I always do, take out the trash by blocking. Point was it didn't bother me because the game was still fun even when I died. Legit I vote on those matches and 100% thumbs up killers who wiped my whole team and didn't *at the time I thought* cheat.
Then recently I kept getting stuck with killers I thought were breaking the rules, turns out the same things they say isn't allowed **literally listed under the report buttons** is IN FACT allowed by the Killers. Lmfao, just why? We were given the definition of the behaviour, agreed it was incorrect for fun gameplay THEN ALLOWED IT ANYWAYS LMFAO
I have made my ticket and asked it to be looked at, doubt anything will change but there is some seriously shady business going on when at first these players were few and far in between. Now you can't escape them. This game could of been my main one and for a minute there I thought it would be.
If the game creators do something REAL about the Killers quite literally taking advantage of game mechanics, camping, and griefing survivors ON HOOKS then I would really like to come back.
Until then, if you're a new player and you don't have a team of friends you can talk to, this game prolly isn't for you because after a while, like I said you get nothing but poorly skilled killers with cheap tactics that suck all the fun out.
On that note this game shouldn't be fun to only killers when there are four other players in the match.
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I suggest getting at least 100 hours on each role to get better understanding why something happens, because it is not always for the reasons you might think.
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I see absolutely zero reason to camp hooks constantly and block them. People won't even get me half the time. Pinhead, wraith, Huntress, Trapper, etc they have all done it.
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That's not really acceptable from either side? I can see how survivors can be toxic but comparing hook humping to teabagging *my example which is the most complained about thing I've seen in for killers* doesn't make sense because one prevents players from playing and the other is childish abd should be reported.
As I was pointing out, it's to the point where it's no fun because you're not even getting to play as a result of it, the toxic part don't even matter to me. I just want to play.
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You failed to mention what the rule was broken.
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And you failed to read it.
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Point it out to me. What was the rule that was broken?
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Again you didn't read it to figure out the conclusion then this is a you problem, it's still up there.
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Go play some killer to the extent you played survivor, you are coming across as entitled and naive.
Camping 100% at times is simply the correct move. You might not see it, but there are legit reasons to do it. Just some simple examples, end game, positioned within a 3 gen, noticed multiple survivors in the area, etc.
Slapping you on hook, if that is the griefing you speak about is the equivalent of tea bagging.
You have been enjoying the game have you not, so how is the killer the only one having fun.
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Which paragraph specifically? I've read it twice and you haven't made it clear what the killers are doing that's against the rules. Is it smacking people on the hook? Camping? Those aren't against the rules. Are they holding the game hostage?
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Fourth.
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I have. My position still stands. The only way to get a fun game in these days is to play the killer. There is no reason to face to face survivors on hooks, it's not the same as teabagging which has zero effect on the killer where them hook humping definitely gives then an edge.
I can let go camping and even tunneling, knowing certain maps REALLY well has helped a ton in that area and I've even started using sabotage kits/ flashlights to help.
Neither of which did anything to save me or my whole team when I had offered something to make the hooks further apart and I have insane unhooking speed when the hook guard. I'm decent at timing too if they are hitting but they ALWAYS down me then I'm on the hook. At that point everyone knows what they do and I am abandoned. Even waiting to let then handle it, usually just dead quicker with no unhooking boost. Like I even have slippery meat and still man, it's ubreal or i wouldn't be nad because it's a fub game. But not if I dont get to actually play which is 80% of my time in match now.
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""Then recently I kept getting stuck with killers I thought were breaking the rules, turns out the same things they say isn't allowed **literally listed under the report buttons** is IN FACT allowed by the Killers. ""
This one?
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Yes where it says I figured it out and ties into the point of why it's contradictory.
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Okay, so what were the killers doing?
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No. You can read it, that is also listed.
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I did read it and I'm not seeing it. So, if you don't care to tell me, I don't care to continue on with this. Best of luck with your games.
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If you read it then you wouldn't need a play by play. Just say you don't agree and move on.
We were given the definition of the behaviour, agreed it was incorrect for fun gameplay THEN ALLOWED IT ANYWAYS.
You do not get to derail a discussion about contradictory rules *the topic* because you didn't want to read it. Have a good day and goodluck getting through any other post you "try" to muddle through.
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I've read it several times and asked for specifics so that I could understand. Since you'd rather not make your message more clear to me, I'll stop trying to "derail" your discussion by asking for more information. 🤷
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Asking for clarification on things clearly listed in asterisks is you not trying or derailing. I thought you left already?
People who interrupt gameplay like hook guarders should be penalized and contradictory rules should not be what is protecting them.
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So, face camping was the issue?
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Actually read it and you'll find out.
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Outside of holding a survivor hostage in a corner, there is nothing a killer can do that's unfair, maybe not fun, but nothing unfair.
Their task is to kill, how they do so is the aspect that allows for fun in that role.
If you feel your being deprived of play because of getting hooked, that's a result of your inexperience not killer toxicity. Everything before your failure in a chase is your opportunity to play based on personal ability. Once hooked it is for the most part entirely up to teammates to provide any additional chances for that match.
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I'll just assume there's no real rules being broken since you refuse to tell me. Can't say I didn't try to get you to help make it clear.
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There is no chase therefore no way to escape when they are facing and keeping survivors on or near that one hook. Can't run from a killer looking right at you and neither can the person you just saved. Even if you manage to take the hit for them, that's two hooks one person and they know you are trying. It means one person does not get to play which is using game mechanics to play toxic. It's not inexperience and that is not a solid excuse to keep people from playing the game.
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******_"Then recently I kept getting stuck with killers I thought were breaking the rules, turns out the same things they say isn't allowed **literally listed under the report buttons** is IN FACT allowed by the Killers. Lmfao, just why? We were given the definition of the behaviour, agreed it was incorrect for fun gameplay THEN ALLOWED IT ANYWAYS LMFAO"_******
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So the hitting on hook: That is toxic but that helps the survivor's more then the killer cause they go through a hit animation which allows the survivors to unhook and even making it safe if they have BT.
As for the Camping: If it's early on I can understand but if it's like 1 gen or all the gens are done there really isn't any point to leave the hook.
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You state it gives them an edge, meaning you are just being entitled. Face camping isn't even that good, if I would do it in my killer games I would lose. Survivors that are good can deal with a face camper as a team, Bubba is the most difficult to face and makes it nearly impossible... yet some teams can pull it off.
80% of the time you get face camped, seems unlikely and if it is true most definitely is due to your own abilities. I am nowhere near a good survivor while I get face camped at times the majority of games it either costs them the game or my team can save me.
If you are trading are you doing this at the start or do you use the time on the hook do also do gens? To me it sounds like you are hook bombing and expect the killer to not defend it. Flash lights, Sabo kits... all showcase that you are hovering around the hook, giving them zero reasons to leave. You are the reason it gives them an edge, you are the one that makes the tactic work...
Sorry, but the killer isn't supposed to throw the game for your benefit. They aren't there to make your game enjoyable, they are there to try and win. They can use any tactic they choose and face camping only works if the survivors let it.
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I'll be honest, I've come around on camping only because people are right it is hard not to when you KNOW those survivors are in that area. Tunneling too tbh, neither are a problem.
And LOL I WISH XX I only made this post because it's so bad they are doing it the WHOLE GAME.
Like I kid you not the worst was the lady with traps, a whole team wiped after her facing and slugging the survivor with all her little things that make you run and MISS the hook by a lot. So even if she had a cool down she guranteed the kill and that first person NEVER got off the hook.
I had that quick unhook and heal because of unhooking, an offering burned that made the hooks further apart, AND a hook sabotage kit that only confused her for a second. She ignored me to chase the injured person. Still got them on a hook even after a pre-emptive sabotage. It's unreal.
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You support toxic, game breaking, and people not being allowed to play on the off chance that your opinion changes our insane experiences I've also been having with facers. It doesn't change that it has happened often and it has cost the fun of the game because of perks and traps.
It's not entitled or naive to point out that it's broken and prevents gameplay of one player. Basic of basic, players should be able to play and denying it just shows how badly you want to do it. If you don't then why are you here?
Already said camping and tunneling is strategy sometimes that the killer has to do so your only issue is me calling out behaviour that is against the rules but for whatever reason is not penalized in killers. That should change.
You want to talk entitled then act the very definition of it my friend, do better.
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Ok this is a bit hard to read so I might be wrong. So what your saying is a hag (Lady with triangle trap that spawns her phantoms) beat your team and tunneled? If so then that means you had a very uncoordinated team including you. Granted your playing by yourself and not with friends so it makes sense especially if your new. That's kinda Hag's thing being a pub stomper.
As for the tunneling: If the killer is tunneling there are multiple things to counter them.
Decisive Strike, Borrowed Time, Doing gens efficiently, and running the killer for a long time. Tunneling is effective but it becomes significantly weaker at high level.
The fact that it happens every game probably means your at the lower MMR or at the higher MMR. Your most likely at the lower MMR cause High MMR is literally just Blight, Nurse, and Spirit.
Side Note: The offering that makes hooks further apart does almost nothing on most maps,
Side Side Note: You have We'll Make It (The quick heal unhook perk) but you sabotaged the hook first?
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Then you don't understand the game. Do you see zero reason why a smaller football team will play very defensive against the best clubs? It's to have a chance to win the game. A killer that is not the best will camp to win instead of getting looped while the others do gens and then leave. The killer have every right to play how they want and need to do just liks survivors do.
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Yes to Hag and a little bit of the randos n strangers not being able to communicate and causing bad maneuvering.
She found me and her obsession right away while we was working on a gen and faced them on the hook when she caught them. I had killed a totem so she didn't see me right away but I was right next to the gen too. Didn't even hear a heartbeat but that was prolly tunnel vision on my part. I sabotaged the hook she was heading to because I was hoping to head her off then ran away. She went to next closest one and I never was able to get them off the hook because of the traps AND the facing combined.
Killer chased me for a hot minute beforr giving up and fair. She found my teammates trying to next fix gen and I sabotaged hook when she went towards them when i realized she wasn't coming for me when I vaulted and stayed on the hooked person (had the perk that let me see the kikler when they took someone so I know when they aren't moving). I went to unhook one she caught, injured from last encounter. Get knocked down this time and so does team mate I just saved because the killer was just standing ther slapping again. I'm hooked now and try to get off, using up all my slippery meat and fail all because the one teammate is still working on gen, pops it and runs our way. Killer facing me and using traps again like with first one who died. In comes only standing teammate and yes this was bad maneuvering, grabs me but killer hits me because i rub right into one of thos traps and INTO A CORNER XD and that's death hook so she chases other person. Gets them while they are trying to heal downed person very close by.
I would of preferred tunneling tbh, I agree there are ways around it. It's hard but not enough to where you feel you didn't get to play.
The offering information makes me big sad and explains A LOT -.-
And tbh you're right it almost never happens with friends but they are ALL veteran players so makes sense. Also getting randos to heal you even if you healed them is hard because they want to hop on the gen instead of help you keep running interference with a healing.
And yes, sabotaging the hook makes it so I don't have to take a hit for them if the person on the killers shoulder escapes. They are randos and i am tryna live too lol If they hook them them I can still unhook quick but can't do the heal part if they standing right there. Not that it matters apparently the hooks don't change distance -.-
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You just stated yourself that they are strategies that sometimes needs to be deployed. This showcases your entitlement, as you claim it is only to be used if rules 1, 2 and 3 have been met. That isn't how that works, if it is a requirement some times it means it can be used at any time that the killer believes it would benefit them. Who are you to dictate when it is or isn't a valid option?
You claim it stops someone from playing the game, but hanging on the hook is part of survivors gameplay. It is literally part of the game, it isn't the most engaging just as holding m1 on a generator... yet is it now toxic to do generators? You are sitting in one place and helping the team. If you hang on the hook and keep the killer busy, then you are contributing just the same.
What exactly do you do to ensure the killer has a fun game? You admit to try and deny them their first hook with flash lights and sabo setups, do you think that is fun for them? You are a hypocrite, only caring about your own fun... this is a PvP game, your opponents are not trying to make you have fun and they aren't toxic for trying to win. You think being looped for 5 gens is fun? You think losing 3 gens in the first chase is fun? Does that mean doing gens is toxic, looping is toxic... get out of here. People try to win games, they use tactics and that isn't toxic. If they are toxic, then you are as well!
Against the rules... you might want to read them, it actually states that it is allowed! They aren't denying you anything, if you don't like the survivors game play... don't play it. Look at your team to save you, don't try and dictate how your opponents should play to give you a higher chance of defeating them... how entitled can you be.
Btw. If you read my post you would have read that face camping from the start would lose me games, not win them... the survivors I face actually know how to respond to it.
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Toxic behaviour and it is blocking someone playing the game, reporting system itself defines it as against the rules then turns around ans allows it. If survivors get blocked from vaulting too much then so should kiklers when they face too much. Games are meant to be played and writing me a very long message that says nothing but "I support killers who don't really want to play" over and over.
It deserves to be penalized because it's the only one that actually goes against their own rules because it controls the game like devs say not to. Stay mad, still gonna rally for it to change because as I stated before it's toxic and has no place in gaming when it breaks it.
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So, you are toxic for sabotaging a hook? You are preventing the killer from hooking the survivor, which is playing the game? They are not blocking someone from playing, as being hooked and being there is part of the gameplay.
The killer most definitely is playing the game as well, as hooking a survivor and sacrificing them by those means to the entity is their goal.
It is a tactic which can be punished by the survivors. You however hook bomb into it and are around from the down... You are the one rewarding their strategy, instead of giving them some space, placing pressure on them by doing a generator and coordinating a save or trade later on.
You don't understand the meaning of actual toxicity and make claims that are false. Being on hook is part of the survivors game play, as in literally. The fact that the rules and the developers state it isn't reportable nor toxic.
By the logic you have, you are just as if not even more so toxic than the people you face...
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The chance to play comes before the hook. It's on yourself to avoid, hide, repair, cleanse, and escape the killer before they can accomplish their goal of removing you. Once on the hook, you have already failed and the play time in your control is forfeit unless teammates give you another opportunity.
It's not denying the survivors a chance to play, it's ensuring the kill to alleviate time pressure and attain control. There is no reason for the killer to let you go and make the match more difficult for themselves.
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It's also apart of the game to unhook other players and it still breaks the game in the same way over vaulting did. Toxic behaviour that is not playing when they can in fact find people right at the start of a match and DO use it to their advantage to keep that player from actually participating.
Vaulting got blocked when it was abused, so should slugging and facing.
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You're not playing if you're stopping all gameplay for others. Which is what facing does. It's toxic and clearly didn't prevent anything lmfao It happens constantly and is the main reason public matches are quick and pitiful.
The same reason the vaults are not allowed to be abused is the same reason that facers should be penalized. It's being abused.
I clearly said she didn't even see me but you ignored that so i was not in fact "on top of her" and never do that because it irritates me when my own team does it. But nice way to try and gaslight to avoid the topic.
That sabotage tactic came BECAUSE they keep hook guarding and i used it the second I saw she was doing it and it did not work both because of the over trapping and the facing. That is a broken game mechanic we are supposed to be able to save other survivors. Toxic and needs to go. Trying to say I'm toxic when it never stops the killer is completely off the map. You just want so badly not to be penalized for something that is abused just because you claim you don't do it. It's still a problem bad enough to ruin the game and why are you arguing for it if you don't abuse it? Lol
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I'm not sure why you are expecting the opposing side to play in a way that is favorable to you.
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Only they say come here if you disagree. And I do, as do many other people at least on facing because it breaks the game.
You can still say it should be changed but telling someone it is what it is doesn't work for me when facing has practically ruined the game. They stopped over vaulting then there is zero reason they can't do the same for facers.
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I'm not, i am expecting them not to abuse facing and slugging while someone is on the hook when survivors aren't allowed to vault too much. Which as I have said multiple times, facing is the real problem when they don't move.
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The window blocker only happens if you vault a window 3 times in the same chase. Resets if chase gets dropped. It really only exists to prevent infinites as killers are meant to catch survivors eventually.
You have anti slugging perk options if the Killer slugs and face camping can be dealt with by rushing gens.
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I appreciate the support and tbh that's how it will continue to go if we don't start actually pushing for it. I'm not looking for agreement, I'm looking for options and people willing to give their opinion on this when it gets abused the way it does.
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If killers are made to catch then it's even worse that so many of them face while slugging people. That literally contradicts the point of the chase mechanic if they stay in one spot. Abuse is abuse when it makes the game harder to play and not in the competitive sense.
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Slugging is for pressure because you can't just chase into hook every game as you will lose if you don't play to the speed of the game.
No one is abusing anything. You are just getting upset over losing in a video game.
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Big difference between obnoxious spamming and counterable situations.
It's not denying play, it does limit your options after failing multiple aspects of survivor. It's up to teammates to overcome the situation, solo or swf.
How much you engage in the match is in your own hands as survivor. Completely on yourself to avoid the killer long enough to accomplish more than that first chase.
I find Slugging is no more restrictive than being hooked. Camping is the result of a survivor failing to win a chase and the killer using them as bait. The killer is risking gens in hopes that they can negate 2 more time consuming chases and lure in another survivor.
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They are not stopping people from playing, as being on the hook is part of the game play loop of survivors. You have the ability to try an unhook, not advisable and you will get skill checks to hit to extend your time on the hook. The fact that it isn't the most fun part of being a survivor is irrelevant, your feelings of that part of the game play is not a definition.
Vaults can be abused if you know how to chain links and use them. Limitations are placed on you, just like skilled survivors can unhook even in the face of a killer. Once again, you are not being objective... go watch some competitive level survivors and see how they deal with it, because guess what camping is part of the competitive scene. Face camping is mainly successful based on the actions of the survivors!
If you are talking about hag, you realize she is a defensive killer right... that places traps around to defend pressure points, which includes hooks and setups a web. To be honest this sounds more like you have no idea how to play against a hag, she plays very differently and yes is very territorial and defensive by nature. Learn to crouch, flash lights to disarm her traps, trigger them when she is locked in animations, actions or unable to come toward you and learn to trigger, 180 turn and run.
You can act like a single game, a single anecdotal evidence isn't a reflection of the actual balance. You claim she didn't know you were there, yet you are unable to know. Sound, Scratch marks or even simply being paranoid can make people act in specific ways.
The hypocrisy is so transparent, you go like the sabotage tactic is because the tactic used by killers. Killers camp and tunnel based on the balance of the game and securing kills is one of the best ways to win. You claim to care about preventing others from playing the game, while your actions are trying to prevent the killer to play their game loop.
Why do I argue in favor of being able to do it? Simple; Sometimes it is a necessity if you want to stand a chance as a killer. End-game camping is literally the only good move. Getting free unhooks is really not warranted and defending the hook is part of the game. It can already be punished if people know what to do, the suggestions people make to resolve this will negatively impact others and be abused by survivors against people that don't face camp! Survivors at decent-good skill levels are already at an advantage, they really don't need a free buff because new and less skilled players are unable to deal with it. So... if you have a valid solution feel free to share, but you have to consider all situations that can occur and how it doesn't hurt killers and giving away all their pressure for free!
Btw. I guess you hate survivors that run the killer for 5 gens! All other survivors can only do gens, sit there in one spot and hit skill checks... they are stopping all gameplay for others, how toxic? The killer isn't having fun either, imagine...
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Pressure doesn't stop gameplay like facing and slugging the whole game does. It's broken that it's allowed and should be penalized for abuse just like survivors get blocked for vaulting too much.
It has nothing to do with upset and everything to do with wanting to play the game, choosing to ignore that for toxic gameplay is wholly a failing of your own. People are meant to get unhooked too. Controlling the game with facing and slugging is still defined as against the rules yet they are allowed when survivors can't do such things, (crows above the head, vaulting, etc) they should not be able to do it the whole match. Stay mad that your little privilege is being pointed out when it does not contribute to the game unless you count unskilled toxicity.
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