Penalize Camping Killers
Comments
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I mean they technically were playing the game but strategies bottle neck that which camping is a valid strategy and shouldn't be punished for.
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so you assume everyone has every perk on every killer?
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The only penalisation is the score towards emblems atm. Who even follows that really... you cant even see the scores and half the time it doesnt make sense at the end.
If theres no mechanic they can implement then just implement a deduction in Bloodpoints depending on proximity to the hook and with how many gens left.
Killers already get tons of BP easily.
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If there's anything that's faulty here it's the opinion that "oh well you can just die on hook, or you'll eventually die anyway". As if that's a clear justification for camping being an acceptable strategy... it's acceptable because the player can purposefully die or AFK until they do die, so that means it's a viable strategy and doesn't hold a player hostage.
I think they call that a paradox
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for a game to be held hostage the game has to not progress. If your on the hook the game is progressing. Same as if you were slugged. And you also ignored the entire part about how survivors can be saved from a camping killer so watch who your calling out for faulty opinions. If we are using your logic being on the hook at all is taking the game hostage.
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You don't really get to define what a hostage is with just the game's terms... a hostage is still a hostage, whether they are stuck bleeding out on the ground or stuck on a hook for 2-3 minutes and no good way to escape or even keep playing the game. That person is being held hostage and unable to play.
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which is exactly why we can't use your logic. If we used that logic even being placed on a hook because you can't do anything on a hook and it would be considered being held hostage. The game decides what its own term for a game being held hostage is. If its not being held hostage by the games definition then it isn't being held hostage. Say a killer slugs a survivor because he sees another survivor about to flashlight him so he chases them. If we used your logic that is being held hostage. But its not. If we don't use the games definition of being held hostage that's not abiding by the rules of the game. If camping was a game being held hostage by the games definition it would be reportable. But according to the game your not being held hostage. Say a 3 man swf leaves their solo teammate to die on the first hook. Is that being held hostage? If we used your definition then yes it is. If we use the game's definition then no it isn't. If it isn't in the games definition of being held hostage then it isn't reportable. You play the game by its rules. The rule of dbd is if the game is progressing then camping or slugging isn't holding the game hostage. You're using your own rules to make camping and slugging taking the game hostage. Taking the game hostage in the game's rules would be something like the killer body-blocking you in a corner for the entire game because then your unable to play and the game won't progress. Now lets say you do this in the EGC. There is a timer till the survivors death so it isn't holding the game hostage. If you don't use the game's terms then your invalidating your own point.
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Being placed on a hook is part of the game. Camping a hook or downed player is part of the game but definitely shouldn't be, because that counts as holding a player hostage. There's no more to it than that. No justifying, no changing the terms, no amount of what-ifs and maybe scenarios will change what camping is.
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Holding a player hostage implies there is nothing you can do about it. You can save them with BT, you can have DS on if you suck at looping, your teammates can bodyblock. You can be given a fighting chance. The only exception to this is if it's a 1 shot killer like Bubba, but then it's a specific killer issue. You can also just ######### on hook. You evidently don't understand what the term hostage means. Yes, it sucks for you but if your teammates slam gens, it's going to suck for the killer.
If I hook one survivor and I see all 3 survivors on 3 gens, and then rather than any of them coming to save, they all choose to do 3 gens and be greedy. That exact scenario means they need to be punished for being greedy, and the best way to do that is to force the person on the hook to shift health states then tunnel them out of the game, or to camp them because you're probably going to lose anyway. Why should someone who never really camps be punished when they use it strategically? You're just making it safer and safer to play survivor at that point.
I don't really condone camping ever because it's boring for both sides, but at the same time it isn't like I see survivors go out of there way not to pound gens out real quick and avoid interacting with me if I play killer. That's not really fun, either.
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If camping and slugging was how the game was designed to be played then this game would be DEAD already. Why? Because its not fun for the person on the hook, its not fun for the other survivors who get no interaction and its not fun for the killer stood looking at a hook.
The reality the game has been alright because in the past and BHVR has been able to let it slide because not all games were full of camping non stop. It appears now its becoming more of an issue. If its not addressed and lets say it became prolific enough to be EVERY game, i guarantee you everyone would just stop playing because its boring.
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Is it not then your job to interact with those survivors instead of giving up the game immediately and holding a player against their will? How did you find the first survivor if not by interacting and playing the game? What changed between you downing a survivor and hooking to immediately giving up the game?
I get there are no rules to govern this stuff but that's why it's important that there should be. My objective as a survivor or killer doesnt change. I either have to do generators to escape or killers have to kill everyone before they leave. It's on the killer to find survivors and prevent them from escaping.
In no way is it fun for a player to be tied up with nowhere to go and nothing to do because your definition of "prevent survivors from escaping" means "prevent at least one survivor from escaping, because that's a win in my book"
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no just it is a tactic
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it counts as holding a player hostage to you not the game so nothing will be done.
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I'm really surprised we haven't seen @MandyTalk or another mod in here yet. Hopefully one can drop in and help clear up this confusion on what is and isn't "hostage taking"
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They aren't coming in because you're the one getting off topic. It SHOULD be when they do it the whole game and facing while slugging is their mo instead of actually playing the game.
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What did I type that was off topic, specifically?
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Because you say we don't understand and we all are saying we do and it needs to be changed.
Calling for an admin to stop discussion just because you disagree isn't it, even less when you clearly are not grasping the concept of it needs to change.
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Well it's not going to change at least significantly. The devs have stated they want to keep both as strategies
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i seriously don't understand why the killers play like this, is it not boring? i always question what happened to them before the match, good god
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And the player base is saying that's not working. Toxic is toxic and it has no place when people should be allowed to play without being stuck on hooks with facers the whole game.
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Who is this we? Got a mouse on your keyboard?
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that's not at all camping if survivors were nearby and the killer knows it. but i've had way too many games where the killer would just stare at the first guy they downed at 5 gens for no apparent reason - that's camping and it needs to be penalized. i really don't care that the killer had a terrible game previously or if their real lives suck, ruining the game for a consumer is just bad business for bhvr.
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Not_queen said that camping is a strat but its not liked by any means, same with slugging
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I think like two people agreed with you.
The playerbase obviously doesn't agree.
The facts aren't on your side either. All you have is your own opinion. Stop trying to force it on everyone else.
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The reason is to secure the kill as fast as possible. It makes the rest of the game much easier. Trust.
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yeah thanks sherlock, that's got nothing to do with what i said
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Ah yes, vaulting through the same window was annoying/frustrating, therefore block that window because that was abusing the system. It was bad behavior.
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It doesn't and it's not bannable even if u disagree.
Holding hostage was multiple times discussed and it's a situation when player A block player B from moving and leaving game in any other way than Dc.
If i find u, body block in corner and wait hours watching u, its holding hostage. If i face camp u, it's not cause I'm securing my potential kill and u will die in around 100 sec.
Also someone mentioned good point before, people in Action games don't complain about how they got killed. So i wonder if u die in game like Cs, for example, 1sec after u spawn, will u complain how unfair it is because your playtime was 1 sec and now u are forced to 10 min spectate. I don't think so.
And here same idea. If u screwed up and killer got u, don't cry if he decides to kill u.
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Damn those generators holding you hostage, sitting in one place, forced to hit skill checks and required to do that for 80 seconds straight... multiple times.
Being on the hook is actually part of the game play loop for survivors. Do the gens, run the killer, get downed and placed on the hook.
Regardless of how you want to twist the reality to suit your narrative, if the game progresses and that includes you slowly dying! You aren't being held hostage.
The goal of the killer is to sacrifice survivors to the entity, it is on the survivors to work together and prevent that.
Just because your opponents use tactics, means and actions you do not like does not mean that they are toxic, bad players or malicious. They are trying to win at a game, killers don't like all the tools, tactics and tricks that survivors do either.
Being run for 5 gens isn't fun for everyone else in the game either other than the single survivor doing it. It is preventing the killer from getting hooks, it gives them no good way to kill the survivors and denies them their game play loop. It forces the other survivors to sit on gens and not interact with the killer.... is that the killer playing badly, the survivor playing well or is the survivor now holding the game hostage and being toxic.
Slugging, tunneling, camping, proxying all have a spot in the killers toolset. Use them mindlessly and survivors will and can punish you. Those here complaining about it, are just like the killer being run for 5 gens.
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You said there was no apparent reason. And now the reason is so apparent that I am sarcastically being compared to Sherlock. Such a sudden shift in tone...
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Bleedouts net no points. In fact your sticking it to them by bleeding out.
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The fundamental issue is that as a survivor, if you get hooked, you are not entitled to be rescued. You were found by the killer, you lost the chase, got hit twice, game over.
Camping is a valid tactic, it's not a very fun one, and it shouldn't be an effective one, but it's valid nonetheless.
Frankly, if survivors play smart, camping isn't advantageous to the killer.
If you do gens, then the killer is only securing a 1K, and 1 hook at that.
To win a decent game as killer, you need multiple hooks and at least 2 kills.
So killers are already "punished" for camping. They end a game with 1 kill, 1 hook, proximity penalty, and likely less than 10k BP.
As a killer, I'd consider that a failure.
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however valid and punishing (in terms of bp) this tactic is, it nevertheless robs all players from any gameplay because other survivors are forced to do nothing but hold m1 on gens so they aren't getting many bp or any fun whatsoever
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Well I dont think progressing the game by doing generators even comes close to camping hooks. Like I said before, it is the killers job to stop survivors from working on generators and eventually kill them all before they can leave. My job as a survivor is to work on generators, not hunt for the killer immediately and hope he doesnt kill me first.
Camping should not be included as a valid strategy because of the effect it has on the match as a whole. The only person enjoying themselves in that scenario is the killer. It is a very negative aspect of the game that needs to be looked at and seriously reconsidered. Whether you like that or not is also irrelevant.
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Actually how much progress you make on the generators is irrelevant to the killer actually as long as they can sacrifice you before the trial ends all is well.
The effect it has on the game as a whole? You mean that if played properly as a team of survivors they do the gens and can leave? The same effect as running the killer for 5 gens, just the person not having fun is the survivor instead of the killer.
How killers should play isn't for the survivors to dictate, because guess what... they are not interested in them having a fun time and they don't want to die. There is most definitely a need to camp at times in the game and if used carelessly can lose you the game.
You haven't brought forth any objective reason why it is invalid nor how you would be able to compensate for the shift in power if removed. Survivors are already the more powerful side, good teams can counter the tactic and therefore it doesn't warrant a blanket nerf. Consider the other side, actually go try... how exactly will you punish face camping without punishing most killers.
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Theres no shift in power needed 😄 camping should have been penalized from the get-go. Not sure why you're still talking about generators because I think we both agree they are irrelevant to camping.
Camping has a tremendously negative impact for many reasons. Survivors get nothing out of it, and killers never learn to play better. Camping is, by and large, a form of giving up the game in favor of one kill. Sometimes this tactic snowballs into two or more., but the principle is the same from match to match.
I'm also not dictating how a match should play as a survivor. I'm dictating how the game should play from a standpoint that positively impacts survivors and killers both. My best games playing killer are against survivors who are better than me, which in turn helps me learn to play against better and better survivors.
Camping gets nowhere until it does and then it becomes a serious problem. Overall there is ZERO objective reason for why camping is a valid strategy. I think first and foremost you should try to explain why camping is a valid tactic before we go any further.
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The survivor had their gameplay up until the point they got hooked. They can hold out for the duration of the hook timer to give their teammates a chance, and punish the killer that way.
It's basically getting sniped early on in the game. It happens.
Sometimes you just lose.
The killer equivalent is getting looped for 90s and suddenly 3 gens pop. You know you're not recovering from that scenario.
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people need to accept the fact that nothing is gonna be done about camping it’s here to stay in the game. The devs have tried everything to punish killers but it was always abused by survivors.
Sounds like they have something new down the road that’s “promising” but I wouldn’t hold your breath.
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maybe if survivors did gens instead of hanging around the hook trying to do the impossible. Every time i get face camped, I'm more frustrated at my teammate than the killer who is getting a free 4k. Even if I slap on Kindred, the best anti camp perk, survivors would rather watch the killer getting free pressure.
You hate getting camped? don't suicide and don't dc! That's the best thing a camper can get.
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There is no point talking to you, because you don't actually care about facts. Regardless of whether you believe it should always be punished or not is subjective. It is in the game and actually good killers will use it when the situation calls for it.
I proxied a guy to death just yesterday, had them hooked in the middle of a 3 gen. My best play was to stay there. Not run to the other side of the map where nothing is to pressure.
Ignoring the fact that camping, tunneling and slugging actually have a place in the game and contributes to the balance is naive and ignorant. It is a tactic just line any other if used properly is beneficial for the killer.
You only care about survivors idea of how the game should be played. It is so blatantly obvious. There are actual very clear objective reasons to why one should camp, end game, good positioning, a game plan made around it... because yes you can do that as well so blatant examples basement builds on trapper, hag, bubba.
The fact is simple you don't like that style of play, but it doesn't mean it is not legitimate. Maybe you should play it and see how good survivors dismantle it. So you can become better as survivor.
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lol my bad, but cmon, to me, a killer camping at 5 gens seems more like they wanna ruin the guy's day rather than win. but if the other survivors throw themselves to the hook then i guess thats one reason...
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Camping being a strategy that can favor the killer is subjective all the same. I asked if you would provide me some objective reasons for camping being a legitimate strategy.
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Reducing the number of living Survivors quickly slows down the rate at which gens can be finished, which can give the Killer a significant amount of breathing room to defend the gens from there.
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Quickly? It takes something like 3 mins to die on a hook
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Two minutes, and as far as accomplishing the goal of killing Survivors, two minutes is quite fast.
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How long does it take to fully repair a generator
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One minute and twenty seconds, assuming one person, no abilities/items augmenting repair speed, and hitting every skill check with zero great skill checks.
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And you're saying this is a quick method to regain control of the map?
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That is simple:
- You have selected an area of the map you want to defend, get someone on a hook in it and camp that area.
- Using the person on the hook to lure in more people, so you can kill them. Do it in the end game for instance as the doors tend to be safe areas, having them on a hook pulls survivors back into the map.
- Use the person on the hook to lure in better players, because it can be used to get them out of position. Bank on their altruism and capitalize on it.
It is a legit strategy, because it can work and pan out. I think one of their devs one called it interesting and a high risk reward tactic. You are giving up a section of the map for immense pressure in a specific area. If it was not working out, if it isn't a valid strategy... you wouldn't be complaining about it.
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I think people dont mind killers who camp the area, it is the ones that camp the hook. If you camp the area then their is an opportunity of the survivors saving. With killers who just stand by the hook, these are the ones that need to be punished.
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