Noed needs changed
It's too much of a crutch that keeps new killers from improving on their own skill and it's absolutely free. Acknowledging that it can give you zero value to a 4k, why can it not have a different requirement to activate on survivors, like hooking them a single time?
*Edited to sound less bitchy and more reasonable.
Comments
-
Because it's not that good. That's pretty much the main answer- NOED is a perk that punishes altruism at the endgame, and that's the only scenario it'll see any more value than a single down.
Changing NOED in any way that makes it weaker will result in... well, I'd say in it being a perk nobody could justify running but I really think it's hard to justify running it now outside of a full endgame build.
6 -
That's patently false. NOED often sees incredible value at the endgame no matter what the circumstance. Namely when you have a killer with high mobility. It is absolutely something that killers bring because they heavily rely on it to snowball pressure just on its own. You're intentionally downplaying it by saying its value is the equivalent of a single dying state or hooked survivor. It's a bad perk because it doesn't promote any sort of improvement for the killer. Once the survivors do their job they're immediately punished.
If the next argument is "do bones" then sure we can do that until there's Ruin, Thanataphobia, Thrill of The Hunt, or any number of much stronger slow-down perks that buys the killer even more time to chase and down everybody else. It's unrealistic unless you're incredibly fortunate to find all five totems, and even if you find all five totems there's still the possibility that the killer didn't even bring NOED in the first place.
NOED is just too strong to be free. I understand that it's an inactive perk slot until you lose the game, and I understand that second-chance perks are on both sides, but specifically NOED has zero counterplay that doesn't involve at minimum sixty seconds to finding the totems.
Yes, by the way, I also understand that you can get lucky and find the totem immediately and pop it, but luck isn't a reasonable variable to consider right now.
0 -
Your argument is so full of holes I don't even need a 'Detective's Hunch' to handle you.
Noed is fine, hoss :)
3 -
NOED just isn't that good against good Survivors.
They have a secret tactic to counter it that doesn't involve doing totems!
2 -
I'd appreciate a discussion then, bud, rather than a snide, unproductive comment.
0 -
The argument was nestled within the snide, unproductive comment.
Big yikes.
0 -
I understood what you said I'm telling you it had no substance.
Big yikes.
"Run Small Game" "Do bones" is the same argument.
0 -
If you lose to a killer cause of noed. Then you my friend infact are just bad at the game.
3 -
Detective's Hunch is not Small Game, it has considerably more uses and is way more efficient. Doing bones IS a valid tactic, hoss.
If you have time to gen rush the killer, you have time for one survivor to hit up bones inbetween each pop. I know because there are people who run Detective's Hunch every game and finish the totems every game. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too, if you're popping gens and only gens, then the Killer gets to eat the cake.
1 -
*I gen rush and don't do bones and am unhappy that Killers have a perk that punishes my mistakes, plz nerf*
5 -
but doesn’t it have something to do with totems though?????
0 -
Nope it's biggest counter is to just leave and say bye bye killer 👋😬😉
0 -
Actually NOED isn't all that different from Haunted Grounds. They both effectively can net you 1 or 2 or if you're really lucky 3 downs per match.
- Haunted Grounds gets you the downs early in the match, which can help you gain momentum and snowball, and given how eager survivors are to cleanse hexes it's very likely to go off.
- NOED gets you its downs in the last stage of the game. This can result in a down becoming a kill, which is great, but it also doesn't help you earlier in the match where you want a lot of the pressure typically. It also has a small chance of being destroyed or having no totems available by the time it goes off, so it's slightly riskier than Haunted Grounds in that sense.
So I don't actually think NOED is any more useful than Haunted Grounds. In fact I kind of prefer Haunted Grounds in the current meta and with my playstyle. 🤷♂️
1 -
I understand the difference between the perks, I was hoping you'd understand the context of what I'm saying. I do bones and I know that it's a secondary objective. I do them when the game is going too fast and I do them when there is a hex. What my point is, that everyone does not seem to get, is that you can not afford to go around breaking totems every single game when killers also bring slow-down. It is not that black and white, and the fact that nobody seems to see the nuance in that is surprising.
This is just an absolute gross misrepresentation of myself or absolute bait.
This is short-sighted.
The frustrations behind this perk seem to escape you all. I'm not so close-minded that I don't recognize NOED is by far not a meta perk. Against a strong survivor team, or against a solid SWF, NOED pales. I get that, but I'm speaking on the average soloq game where there is no communication, or where people don't have a certain DLC perk to counter it.
0 -
NOED fills the same void Deadhard does, it rewards bad play.
if one needs changing, both do.
0 -
That's a good point, though at the very least HG is designed to be a trap for the survivors to fall in. Plus it doesn't last indefinitely, which I suppose are a couple things NOED has going better for it.
0 -
I'm sorry, buddy, I didn't realize that you were lower MMR, Solo Q. But the argument remains the same, if you're willing to play sub optimally, then you should be willing to walk out the gate and leave that last person being camped on the hook to their fate.
In ANY other context, the survivors will always have time to do bones, regardless of gen slowdown. Survivors are the power role, they are the ones setting the pace of the game, it's the killer who reacts. With very few exceptions, most killers can be handled by pre dropping pallets and working your way towards strong tilesets that provide more than enough time for teammates to do objectives. You don't even need to get into loop theory to run the clock.
0 -
I'm not going to get too far into the NOED vs. DH, but DH can be baited out in two seconds, and if used for distance well there are two other exhaustion perks that give you twice the distance DH does. That's all
0 -
I play solo evey time and it rarely pops tbh.
The top secret about it is that i do bones.
You know a change always starts with you.
Do bones if you see them and it's chance that it pops gets really small, and you know where you have been should it pop and know where to start searching 😉
0 -
That's true, it only lasts 60 seconds while NOED can last indefinitely. Then again once Haunted Grounds is triggered it always lasts 60 seconds guaranteed, while NOED can be potentially destroyed in 30 seconds or less after it's triggered so it might not even last that long. Of course, again on the plus side for NOED, it does give you an extra small movement boost as well which is a nice plus.
All in all they both have their pros and cons, but overall I think they're pretty much on par with one another. 🤷♂️
0 -
I've stopped using 'crutch' primarily because of these exact sequences in how the conversation develops.
NOED is a safety net.
Does it cause people to stagnate because in the end they've both already given up and been granted an easy option? Yes.
Can it get value? Yes.
Can it be denied value? Also Yes.
NOED's frankly a balanced perk if you take away the obsession with kills - if we were scored on hooks and rewarded for spreading the hooks rather than tunnels and camps, NOED wouldn't really have a problem. The problem with NOED is game focus - so while I agree it should be reworked, maybe to 10-20% action speed boosts rather than haste and exposure, you're not going to really see a change in how it's received from either side until the devs admit it's a 1v4 game rather than a 1v1v1v1v1.
1 -
Bruh. Its a hex perk. That activates at the end of the game and gives a big notification on the hit. Not to mention you usually can tell who has noed by how they played. Also not to mention if youre soloq and worried about noed, why not make sure the bones are done yourself via map or detectives hunch or small game. Which it im not mistaken, small game is a free perk. I mean, there is so many counters to noed idk what you want from us?
If the killer gets a 4k because of noed. Then he completely outplayed you all and won the game. The game isnt over until you are out the match.
Not to mention on most maps totems are so easy to find, you would have to go out your way to not do a totem.
All in all. Soloq or not. Noed doesnt need a nerf. Its fine. And if youre hit by noed then you didnt do your job. And reguardless the game isnt over until youre at the end game screen.
1 -
No I'm sorry I'm just so frustrated. I'm not trying to come off as a bitter #########. I leave when I can if I can't get the totem. As for wasting their time and looping and all that I understand, it's just such a massive kick to the gut seeing my team get dropped like flies, or getting swatted down myself. If I'm playing defense and distracting the killer I don't typically mind, but when I'm with friends it's incredibly frustrating knowing I can't save them. Plus, in general, I try to help my team as much as I can.
I'm really not trying to sound like a salty survivor main but I guess I am literally doing that right now. I'd prefer a world where you'd have to at least hook a survivor once before they're affected by NOED. I wouldn't even care if they made the perk more relevant during the entire game if there was just some other prerequisite besides survivors doing their primary objective.
0 -
You both quoted me and didn't even seem to read the quote itself. I implore you to do so. I do bones every single game when I'm not trying to run the killer and distract him for my teammates. I try to be as useful as I can in every way because I want to be better. This is what I mean by people not seeing nuance, or maybe you simply didn't read what I had said at all before you decided to speak.
0 -
If you are playing with friends and they don't have the wherewithal to heed common sense on what is a skill that should be developed by maybe 40-60 hours of played time, then you have to let Darwinism run its course.
If Killers have to use their brains, so do survivors.
Most people consider anything greater than 2 escapes a win for the survivors. They'll be back in the fog next game.
0 -
Everyone should have to use their brains. It's the reason I don't run DH. I don't want my growth to be stunted. Likewise when I'm killer I don't use NOED.
Maybe those perks are meant to be training wheels and I'm really just letting it get to me for no ######### reason.
0 -
I'll agree with your first sentence, and the second thought of your last one.
The only reason people look at NOED like it's training wheels is because it has a disproportionate payoff when survivors make smooth brain choices. A payoff that people PERCEIVE to drop off because they can't imagine it hurting those crazy elite SWF deathsquads.
However, I would argue that a 4 man SWF styling on a killer and a solo queue that is low MMR can have the same exact # of smooth brains, and it's even more rewarding to see the former get punished for their hubris.
NOED is the great equalizer.
0 -
noed needs a time limit, like 120 seconds as it was before
0 -
No.
They let the Killer have their 1K and leave.
0 -
Couple things.
Firstly, did you know that there's a very powerful tactic for countering NOED that doesn't involve breaking Totems? It's simple. First step is keep your eyes open during the trial and remember where any dull totems are. Second step is don't be the first person to catch an M1 after gens are done. Third step if NOED activates is to bee line to the totems you saw during the match. Fourth, if one of them is now lit, congrats you found NOED. Break it and unless your team has done something very silly, you've countered the Killer's entire perk and all they got out of it was one hook state.
Secondly, did you know that collection of perks for Killers that are general or teachables from free killers are pretty darn bad? Now it will get better once Demo's perks join the general set... but it still has got nothing on the Survivor's set. NOED happens to be one of the best of that bunch. I do happen to think that NOED could use some telegraphing. SOME mind you. Not much. However I also think that NOED shouldn't be changed until Killers don't have 10 out of 29 of their easily accessible perks as quite literal garbage.
Starting off as Killer is hard enough as it is.
2 -
This is pretty much the best case scenario for survivors once NOED is activated.
I won't argue that, I share pretty much the same sentiments though I'd still say NOED is seen in lower MMR lobbies because it can at least get you one kill when otherwise you wouldn't have gotten any.
0 -
Believe it or not I do these things, but circumstances change dynamically and you can't always guarantee you aren't the first one hit. Especially if you like running the killer like I do. (Which, in that instance, getting hit with NOED is fine. I dont' care if I'M the one kill he gets.) You don't always find every totem on the map and unless you always run a totem-hunting perk then you're bound to not find one unless you've absolutely memorized every totem spawn on every map, which most people most certainly have not, right?
As for default killer teachables yeah the selection isn't strong as a whole, but as you play the game you're able to unlock things in the shrine and original characters with Iridescent Shards. At the very least you can do that and unlock perks that way. Seeing a situation like a wraith with no other perk than noed doesn't bother me, because I understand the selection for new players isn't exactly the best at first.
0 -
You aren't entitled to a 4-man escape.
A 3-man escape is still a win for your team and a loss for the Killer.
2 -
I'm not entitled to escape at all. I'd rather be the one guy on the hook that NOED gave him
0 -
Then what's the issue.
1 -
Don't worry about it if you don't want to spend your day reading the past several posts on this thread. I've already said my piece on it I think.
0 -
Sounds like you agree with me. It's slim pickings for newbie Killers. NOED is one of their few good options and shouldn't get nerfed/changed until more of their current garbage options aren't garbage.
1 -
I absolutely do agree with you.
0 -
i'd personally just nerf what it can and cannot dodge.
hatchet from the back? no.
hatchet from the side? yes.
trapper traps? no, because your not jumping over your shoving forward.
puke? lul wut how can you dodge liquid being poured all over your back?
doctor zaps? no its an AoE yet can be deadharded.
see what i mean?
if it can only dodge basic attacks and projectiles not connecting with your hitbox it would be a far more balanced perk. maybe throw in 10 seconds of oblivious as the risk factor of using the perk and i can see deadhard being in line with how NOED impacts the map.
it can solve alot of problems, be countered, isnt a cure all end all solution.
0 -
I'm going to forgive your ignorance and simply say to read the thread.
0 -
its a bad hex perk. and devour outclasses it. and one of the only hex's if not the only he that can be de-activated before activation. its completely fine as is.
0 -
Unless the survivors are paying attention to what gens they are doing the game should get progressively easier for you as a killer as less and less generators are completed. Find a three gen and protect it. As for not worrying about it, I doubt you have the insight to know whether they were in communications or not, and whether they all were running something to track totems. In the average game this is not the case and NOED sees incredible value. Sometimes, of course, NOED gets taken out immediately, because that's how the cards are dealt at times.
Devour Hope is so much better than NOED, but it also requires you to have multiple hooks and to be a certain distance away from the unhook as it happens. As for NOED, yes it can be deactivated ahead of time if the entire survivor team is coordinated. However, like said above, that's not the case most of the time. I'm sure you can only think of a small number of times that your NOED was countered before endgame when compared to all the times you would run NOED. Generally speaking all five totems do not get cleansed because people are being chased and on generators.
I'm not sure why the quoted post you guys supplied didn't reflect my edit, because initially I was extremely frustrated and not thinking calmly. I understand NOED does nothing for you during the whole game, but it can do immensely well once it is activated. It's an indefinite one-shot, and if your whole team (who, again, on average do not do the optional objective) is not doing them or paying attention then it's practically guaranteed to give you one kill, but often times even more than that up to a 4k.
0 -
i might be kind of a crazy outlier here but is anyone else actually thrilled to go against noed when killer's having a rough time (which is usually the case when they don't have a way better perk setup) and suddenly feel 'oh damn there's still an actual game to be had here'
ooh well, still an opportunity to plug my rework idea that'd work even better as a pseudonerf in boonpocalypse, nobody ever cared about it anyway
1 -
This is really interesting actually. I'd be totally okay with this. It isn't a surprise and it's still really useful.
0 -
it was always a bit odd to me that it wasn't an 'all or nothing' in regards to hex totems, it's certainly often used like it and from the thoughts people fling around they seem to want it to be that as well so that's what i came up with back then (even if they had it keep the stealth until revealed aspect like devour has, suddenly walking by a hex totem in the endgame or one that was not lit before would be a big red flag)
0
