The Amanda's Letter add-on for The Pig has been Kill Switched due to an issue with incorrect RBT count.
http://dbd.game/killswitch
My theory crafting about CoH worked too well
So I have played several games with and against CoH and it's just broken imo.
It gives free self-care + we'll make it to every other survivors. You have 23 perks total, whenever boon totem is active and killer just can't get rid of it. Range is double on multi-layer maps and there is still lot of spawns, that killer just can't get rid off, even if he wants to for some reason.
If you wanna know how good it is, then try to compare it to Inner healing...
Above all, it completely eliminates two main strategies besides tunneling / camping.
1) Hit&Run for snowball
2) 3-gen
1) So Hit&Run works really well with weaker killers, you just spread injuries and then start to get downs fast. It doesn't work against CoH, because every survivor can play alone. They don't need anyone, just go there, heal while other survivors are free to work on gens. CoH gives super easy way to recover every time.
2) 3-gen can be hardest thing to win against in dbd against most killers and lot of killers try to secure 3-gen from start of the game. Some maps actually need to play like that, if you want to win. CoH also destroy this.
Your plan:
Work on gen -> run away from gens when killer is nearby -> get injured -> heal alone
Every survivor is going to do that and they can do it as many times they want, so killer just has to commit on someone and most likely lose last gen for it. There is just no way for him to win this, unless survivors make some big mistake.
Possible ways to win against SWF with CoH:
You just have to play correct killer... That's it.
Plague is best, then killers with fast 1v1 like Blight / Nurse / Spirit, or exposed killers that doesn't care that much about healing.
Again, this is something way stronger for SWF than soloQ. As SWF you don't wanna have it multiple times, that lose purpose of free perks -> Max 2. Your teammates can help you find best totem spawn for it during game. Don't do this as first thing, when noone is injured -> noone can heal, so you just risk killer will find it by accident and you lost 16 seconds for nothing.
I don't wanna that effect nerfed to the ground, I actually love that perk as survivor, but it's just so brainless to use. There needs to be something that killer can do about it permanently.
I think best way to start with is let killer destroy that totem, so survivors have to find new spawn.
This way, killer is more motivated to deal with it.
It would work like every other totem requirement perk -> one use per totem. Survivors would have to think about where / when to use it and make some efforts.
Also NOED and Plaything should be able to spawn over boon, if there is no dull totem available anymore.
Comments
-
It forces you to commit to chases you should break from or else it's as if the chase never happened.
6 -
Speaking specifically about Circle of Healing...
- Very few survivors can find a totem reliably, so the large majority of survivors are going to run Small Game or something else. So most times Boons are taking up 2 spots.
- Next, let's do the math on healing speeds for boons.
- Boons take 14 seconds to bless, 16 seconds to use. So 30 seconds for a heal.
- However, you also have to find the totem, say that takes about 16 seconds. But to err on the side of caution, let's say you're really fast at finding a totem, so 8 seconds. The heal time is now up to 38 seconds
- Since survivors won't be around the totems area of effect, they will have to travel to it. I would say on average, you will have people in it about 1/3 of the time and survivors that have to travel about 8 seconds to it the other 2/3s of the time. So 4 extra seconds for travel. The heal time is up to 42 seconds.
- First Heal - 42 seconds
- The 2nd Heal would add 16 more seconds for healing and 4 seconds travel time. So 2 heals cost survivors a total of 62 seconds, divided by 2 is 31 seconds for each heal.
- The 3rd heal would add another 20 seconds, so 82 seconds. Divided by 3 is 27 seconds for each survivor.
- If the Killer breaks the totem, which the probably will before 3 people gets heals, then you add 14 more second and 8 seconds finding the totem.
Now take Self-Care and Botany Knowledge
- If you heal yourself, you are getting 21 second heals. 21 second heals is much better than 27 second heals.
- However, if you heal someone else, you are getting 10 second heals. Boon totems will never beat Self-Care and Botany Knowledge for the speed of heals and Killers can't "snuff out" Botany Knowledge and Self Care. Botany Knowledge works for the entire team.
We'll Make it
- Single perk that gives you 8 second heals. Again, much more time efficient than Circle of Healing and benefits the entire team except yourself.
Do you see why Circle of Healing isn't a big deal. You can ignore it as Killer until you are going past it and it only hurts survivors, time-wise.
3 -
It's not hard to find a totem, you have several guaranteed spawns on most maps.
Everyone healing there after it heals in 16 seconds. That's alone, without any help, without any perk, any item. Just because someone used 1 perk.
They will have to travel to it? Yeah, you don't run somewhere with med-kit? You do it in front of a killer? You always run somewhere, this just changes where you go. That range is not small, so you are not that limited unless it's really in corner of the map. So you can't really count your travel time only to CoH.
"We'll Make it"
Only if you are the one who unhooked and again you can't do it alone. So this doesn't really negate hit&run, nor 3-gen.
"Self-Care and Botany Knowledge"
Interesting, so you need 2 perks on every survivor to have effect of 1 perk in whole team? 8 vs 1
Do you see how it is big deal that killer can't get rid of it?
Unless you find out who has it and tunnel the ######### out of him...
1 -
It's not hard to find a totem, you have several guaranteed spawns on most maps.
This takes time and there have been several times I haven't found a totem the entire match. Running a totem finding perk is the only way to reliably make sure you can quickly find a totem quickly enough, so it's not effecting your time doing gens.
Everyone healing there after it heals in 16 seconds. That's alone, without any help, without any perk, any item. Just because someone used 1 perk.
This is inaccurate. You are not counting the time to bless the totem and you are not counting the time to find the totem. It is not 16 seconds. If you want to pretend that travel time and finding a totem doesn't exist, it's still a 30 second heal the first time you use it. If 2 people use it, the time efficiency is 23 seconds. Again, that's without counting finding a totem and traveling to the totem, which you still have to account for. If someone is running "Botany Knowledge", every heal they do is 10 seconds. "Botany Knowledge" is a single perk and works for everyone on the team. "We'll make It" is 6 seconds, about 3 times as time efficient as CoH. And trust me, if you are running "We'll Make It", you going for hook saves. 1 hook save with "We'll Make It" equals 3 uses of CoH. So you don't have to make ever hook save to get time efficiency out of "We'll Make It".
"Self-Care and Botany Knowledge"
Interesting, so you need 2 perks on every survivor to have effect of 1 perk in whole team? 8 vs 1
"Botany Knowledge" is a single perk and works for the entire team. 1 perk for the whole team. And it gives you 10 second heals, compared to 27 seconds. It's almost 3 times as time effective.
2 -
there have been several times I haven't found a totem the entire match
Then you must learn more, I guess? Only map where I can take it is Raccoon city, that map is hell for totems. I have never had game, where I would have problem to find totem. Well, I have used Detective's hunch for like a hundred games, so I just know spawns, but I just don't value perk based on someone who can't actually use it well. Yeah, if you don't know totem spawns, then it's not that good for you and use something else. With SWF you have multiple people that can search while traveling between gens and tell it to you...
You are not counting the time to bless the totem and you are not counting the time to find the totem.
That's why I said after. Your heal takes longer because of it. Not others and they can do without anything. They don't need any perk, any item and they can do it alone. If you don't have those things, then you have travel time to someone who can heal you. I am not saying it's not there, I am saying you would do it anyway.
Botany Knowledge" is a single perk and works for the entire team.
No, it works for you and when you heal someone. It's not entire team.
0 -
It wouldn't be a big deal if it only affected you. It's a perk that everyone can benefit from for just 1 perk slot. If you can't see the obvious design failure i don't know what to say.
2 -
Yeah, it's just so annoying when you know that you can't snowball by spreading injuries. You are forced to commit on chases, that you know it's bad idea to do...
Tunneling is just best way to deal with this, which I don't think is good thing...
0 -
I'm using Botany Knowledge as an example but there are other healing perks I could use as an example.
Botany Knowledge affects your entire team also. With CoH, the only difference is you go to the healing perk instead of the healing perk going to you. Well, that and the fact that, as killer, you have absolutely no control over Botany Knowledge. CoH, you can at least destroy it.
0 -
Comparing the effect of a 33%+ extra healing speed for 1 survivor to 100% extra healing speed+self care for the whole team just by spending 14 seconds on a totem doesn't seem fair to me. And not only that, it have stackable value if you add other boon totem perks on top of that.
2 -
Botany Knowledge doesn't make others heal faster. You have to be involved. So that's nowhere near same thing. It also doesn't make them heal alone, that is main problem.
You can't destroy it, you can only remove it for some time, but it also wastes your time.
0 -
The idea is different so it scares everyone, because it's never been done before. So you really have to break down the numbers to see if it's really as different as it sounds. Since we have not had something like CoH, we have to use the closest thing to it to compare it and we have to find a bases to compare it from, so lets use survivor time.
Based on my example before, 3 heals from CoH requires 82 seconds of survivors time. (I'm rarely seeing boon totems last more than 3 heals, so far, so I'm using that as an example)
Now, if a "Botany Knowledge" survivor actively uses the perk to heal survivors. It's still a single perk that the whole team can benefit from (it's not exactly the same but it's the closest thing we have to compare with). If a survivor heals 3 times with it, it costs both the survivor and the survivor being healed 10 seconds each. So 20 seconds a heal. Used 3 times, it's 60 seconds of survivors time used.
So, as you can see, the time used is relatively the same, Botany Knowledge edging out CoH in time effeciency. Again, they aren't the exact same perk and require difference conditions, but based on time efficiency, they are pretty much the same.
What I'm saying is that it sounds scary but once you compare them for how much time survivors are using, they really are pretty darn close.
0 -
Your numbers are not correct. So looks like you wanna ignore travel time, ok.
3 heals CoH 14 + 3x16 = 62s, that is alone noone else have to move from gen.
Botany knowledge heal is 12 second, so 24 * 3 = 72s
It's based on wiki, but I am not sure if it is 12 / 10, but it doesn't matter that much...
Problem is that it works only if both survivors have Botany knowledge. Just 1 is not enough.
So, you can see, the time used is not same. CoH edging out Botany Knowledge in effeciency
2 -
33% of 16 is 10.72 seconds, looking at the page it does say it's "approximately 12". With Botany Knowledge, survivors would general find each other at gens, so travel time would be in Botany Knowledge's favor, but lets ignore that. However, I would say you need to add the time finding a totem. If you don't have a totem finding perk, you would spend much more time finding a totem, than if didn't. I'd say, without a perk, it's going to take you 20 to 40 seconds finding a totem. With a perk, it will probably take about 10ish. However, lets ignore that also. We'll just go with your numbers.
62 seconds compared to 72 seconds is pretty much equal.
I would argue that Botany Knowledge really wouldn't have travel time because survivors usually find each other at gens. Also, time finding a totem wasn't added in for CoH. But even with your numbers, I'm not seeing how it's a big problem.
0 -
You usually find totem while traveling between gens, so with that logic both doesn't matter.
It's still just you vs whole team. What if you are the one injured all the time? What if you are on hook / chase and other players need to heal?
Everyone in your team have to use med-kits and multiple perks just to get effect of 1 perk.
1 -
1- I don't get to use botany knowledge on other survivors every game, in a good one i'll maybe use it for 3 heals.
2- You are not taking into account that it GIVES self care, you don't need to find another survivor to heal
3- You count the time you need to get to there and heal but you dont count the time you need to find a survivor to heal and coordinate, that seems oddly convenient
4- You are still ignoring that even if it was true that self-care + botany was better than circle of healing on an individual case, it takes 8 perk slots, Circle of Healing takes only 1 slot. Do you see how stupidly imbalanced this is?
1 -
If CoH is a problem, the Developers will fix it. I'm sure they're watching it closely. I just think a lot of Killers have "Lucky-Breakitis". The numbers just aren't on the Killer's side.
2- You are not taking into account that it GIVES self care, you don't need to find another survivor to heal
If someone heals you, compared to healing yourself, does it matter if the time works out to the same.
3- You count the time you need to get to there and heal but you dont count the time you need to find a survivor to heal and coordinate, that seems oddly convenient
If you are talking about coordinating with an SWF, you just tell them what gen you are at, run to it. If you aren't, survivors are always at gens. Heck, if the survivor that unhooks you doesn't have a single healing perk, he can still heal you in 16 seconds. That's 96 seconds for 3 heals off hook compared to 82 seconds for CoH. That's a 14 second time different without even using a perk.
4- You are still ignoring that even if it was true that self-care + botany is better than circle of healing on an individual case, it takes 8 perk slots, Circle of Healing takes only 1 slot. Do you see how stupidly imbalanced this is?
You can get healed off hook for 32 seconds without a single perk compared to 42 seconds with CoH.
I'm not saying CoH is a bad perk. But I am saying that it's not a meta perk. You can get heals from anywhere in DBD. You can't get DS, BT, UB, Exhaustion Perks, Adrenaline, Iron Will, etc from anywhere.
0 -
"DS, BT, UB, Exhaustion Perks, Adrenaline, Iron Will"
Yeah, imagine that everyone can use those perks instead of stacking self-care +botany knowledge...
"If you are talking about coordinating with an SWF"
So now we talk about SWF? Then your whole argument about problem with totem is just not valid. That's really not an issue for decent SWF.
You don't always have an option to heal with someone else, but you always have option to do it yourself. That's the biggest difference.
The fact that everyone can play alone, that is nightmare of every killer.
3 -
Again, ignoring the value of selfcare. Selfcare was a solid A tier perk because it allowed you to heal yourself without the need to waste time looking for a teammate and coordinate a heal, in point 2 you are completly dismissing the time saved by selfcaring instead of finding a partner. It's extremely convenient that you take the best case scenario to count the time on your cases and take the worst case scenario to count time for circle of healing, 42 seconds to heal with CoH really? and just 32 without perks? like you could just instantly summon a temmate in front of your face and then teleport thim back to where he was?
And you didn't adress at all the point of the perk slots (the most important of all and gamebreaking), i'll repeat it: 1 perk slot for a perk that effects everybody, 8 perk slots for having a similar value with botany + selfcare for everybody.
2 -
Yeah, after few games vs these perks my fears are confirmed. Nearly instant heals if you break chase.
1 -
That's not how rates work. 33% of something is not the same as a 33% rate increase. The formula is:
(100%/sum of rate increases in %)(16 seconds) = heal time
100% base heal speed + 33% from Botany = 133%
(100%/133%)(16) = about 12 seconds.
2 -
Thank you for info, I wasn't sure about this, so didn't want to argue that much about this part.
0 -
With botany knowledge, you have to find the other survivor, but with the boon, you just have to be near the boon
2
