No Scratch Marks, No Aura, no Med kit? No problem!

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  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Right, but that just means that CoH is the same as the survivor bringing a medkit, which they're freely able to do at any given time. This is where CoH is basically just any other healing perk; it's no stronger than other methods of self-heal in the game, save for when you misuse Self Care on its own lmao

    CoH is only worrisomely strong when it's used by teammates with coordination who are utilising the speed buff properly, not when some rando decides to use the free medkit.

  • drpynz
    drpynz Member Posts: 246
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    You understand no one needs to bring in a med-kit now. right? this lends to everyone bringing in flashlights, toolboxes, maps whatever. This also stacks with other perks light We'll make it, med kit speeds and add-ons. I'm not sure if people are being disingenuous or really don't see the issue here. Admittingly, it is fun being the survivor playing these perks when the killer gets 2 or 3 "hooks" a game and then teabag at the exit and then BM the killer in chat about how he tunneled and made the game un-fun and they are like, "#########, I didn't even sacrifice anyone" and then tell them you're going to report them for not validating your feelings. It will get old and at some point and no one is going to play the killer. It's really taken a broken game and set fire to it.

  • CaulDrohn
    CaulDrohn Member Posts: 1,577
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    Oh sorry, I mixed that up. But 14 seconds is STILL quite some time, if you do that repeatedly bc the killer iq quick in snuffing it, you will lose the game.

  • xBEATDOWNSx
    xBEATDOWNSx Member Posts: 636
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    Boon's are fine honestly. As a killer, if I chase someone through the range of a boon and lose scratch marks, I make a note to come back to check the area if I lose chase/ down them. If survivors are healing in seconds, it's the same idea.


    They take 24 seconds for a survivor to set up and 2/3 seconds to snuff out.


    Now if BHVR adds a Boon that doubles as a mini Prove Thyself... Well get the pitchforks

  • OopsAllHexes
    OopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624
    edited October 2021
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    Fair but a warning: This is the DBD forums, people don't like change here, and people don't like it when the Survivor meta changes, at all. They recite streamers' opinions like religious people as well.

    People were told how to counter Legion, some very smart people explained how to turn the old Spirit "50/50s" into 80/20s. It all fell on deaf ears.

  • TeabaggingGhostface
    TeabaggingGhostface Member Posts: 3,108
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    The problem with boons is the fact that they can be relit a stupid amount of times, far more than old undying could

  • OopsAllHexes
    OopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624
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    This. It takes 2 seconds to snuff a totem, and 12 to reignite them. Snuffing a boon twice is the equivalent of 1 Pop charge. 12+12=24, Pop reduces around 25 seconds of gen progress.

    You don't need to go looking as well, just snuff a totem if it's nearby a gen being done or if you see it. Survivors will waste time reapplying them, which buys you time.

    I would actually argue that Boons are like Thrill of the Hunt and not Undying: You can turn them against the other side if you know what you're doing.

  • OopsAllHexes
    OopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624
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    I'd love boons that reduce sounds tbh. Footstep sounds are extremely loud and Reid is Jeff 2.0 in terms of being loud when injured. No scratch marks does not mean anything when there are 3 other ways of tracking Survivors. I'd argue that Shadow Step needs a buff if anything, since it's not as good as Circle and not worth running.

  • OopsAllHexes
    OopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624
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    Survivors waste 12 seconds blessing a Dull Totem. Snuff two Boons total and you basically just bought the same amount of time a Pop charge would.

  • xBEATDOWNSx
    xBEATDOWNSx Member Posts: 636
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    I do agree with Shadow Step needing a buff. A killer who understands how to track survivors will have zero issues with countering that perk.

  • OopsAllHexes
    OopsAllHexes Member Posts: 624
    edited October 2021
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    Yeah, exactly. It doesn't really feel worthy of being a Boon with all of the limitations of a Boon, since it's not useful/strong.

  • coolmacc
    coolmacc Member Posts: 70
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    No one would use it and bhvr would have wasted their time making it

  • Bardon
    Bardon Member Posts: 1,002
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    Well BHVR couldn't have anything that might adversely affect their shiny new Boon Totems...

  • Shadowstoast
    Shadowstoast Member Posts: 26
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    Its good but its not OP its fine but if good survivors know how to use it they are strong but most of the time random will destroy totems and make her perk useless and also this perk is good for survivors because it helps lose the chase and have a chance

  • Leatherface1990
    Leatherface1990 Member Posts: 718
    edited October 2021
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    THRILL OF THE HUNT = PROBLEM SOLVED with a GENERIC/BASE KILLER PERK.

  • ElmosPayPig
    ElmosPayPig Member Posts: 128
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    The killer should be able to do a longer stomp or whatever to turn a boon into a hex.


    That way there's a back and forth and at least a real risk for putting up a boon.

  • Ecstasy
    Ecstasy Member Posts: 426
    edited October 2021
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    Boons are catching on way faster than I'd expected.

    Figured there're be more delay from needing BP to level them & some players waiting for sale, but with recent blood points codes and this tome challenge encouraging people to buy right away... boon aren't the future meta: they are meta.

    BHVR is clearly raking in mad cash atm... but that's probably not a very good thing if it further incentivizes them towards short term cash grab decisions at the sake of long term stability, balanced gameplay, and real growth :-/

  • Killing_Time
    Killing_Time Member Posts: 894
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    Do what I do...


    Randomly select a survivor on the match screen, find them in game, and do EVERYTHING in your power to get that specific person out the game by any means.


    Fun way to play.

  • xnicolay
    xnicolay Member Posts: 70
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    I cant understand who think this is balanced... you can see the totem aura is ridiculous OP,

    So since it's not enough as a killer I should take down the survivors fast because 2 or 3 generators pop up mmmm but yeah is a great idea cant see scratch marks, gimme them more tools to extend the chase🤡

  • ThePolice
    ThePolice Member Posts: 801
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    The line about cleansing the same had 4 times being a big much

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Right, got it.

    Doesn't really apply since that line was about Hexes and not Boons, but I see the association they're trying to draw even if it's not working.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    So you think hiding scratchmarks isn't strong. I'd like a shot of whatever you are drinking!

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    You're right. The person arguing it isn't strong needs to beam back to earth ASAP.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    I didn't say it wasn't strong, I said it wasn't that strong- which it isn't. There are killers with hidden scratch marks as part of their basekit, because it's the perfect option for making a chase a little harder without making it impossible to win.

    Straight up, if you find yourself incapable of tracking a survivor just because there aren't any scratch marks (with exceptions for maps where that is genuinely difficult, like Lery's), that's a you problem.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    So we should just get rid of scratch marks then? If we don't need them? Sure. Not that strong.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Did I say that? Or did I say that removing scratch marks is a reasonable challenge for a perk to provide?

    Some perks already did this, you know. Most people agree they're kinda bad (except buffed Lucky Break, which also has a very strong secondary effect) because it's a small benefit, typically with weird requirements.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
    edited February 20
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  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Buddy, being able to track without scratch marks is not "elite", it's a really basic skill to learn. Now, when Shadow Step is combined with other stealth perks, it does get nasty, but the likelihood of the whole team bringing a full stealth build is pretty low- and it means their perks aren't doing anything else, at least.

    You should be more worried about Circle of Healing if you play a killer that doesn't have an instadown. Shadow Step is much easier to play around and a much more fair challenge.

  • TMNoThumbs
    TMNoThumbs Member Posts: 120
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    Scratch marks are the only reliable way to track survivors around loops when you cant see or hear them. In a meta where iron will is common how are you supposed to track an injured surv in the boon totem area? It IS that strong. There is no real counter play.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
    edited February 20
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  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Alright, let's address that. Let's assume that a survivor has Iron Will and they're inside the Shadow Step radius- the first question is, where are they? Plenty of totem spots don't really provide that much ability to use that, so we're also going to assume that it's somewhere reasonable like a jungle gym.

    That's the one situation where you do want to break the totem in chase- or just leave and chase someone else, which is already a reasonable decision against someone using Iron Will anyway. Don't waste your time on survivors that'll take ages to down, regardless of Shadow Step.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Don't be sarcastic at me and I won't be passive aggressive to you, simple as that.

    A new mechanic is always going to have a learning curve. You're always going to have to learn to play around something that gets added to the game, otherwise there's no point to adding it to the game at all.

  • TMNoThumbs
    TMNoThumbs Member Posts: 120
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    So you are saying the counter play is to drop the chase. Wow, what was i thinking. I guess having to give up chase on an entire section of the map isn't THAT strong. Not like killers dont already have to do that on certain busted map tiles. Say, we should give survivors active camoflauge too. As sight is now the only way to track survivors, cant have that.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    ONE counter play is to drop the chase. Another is to snuff the totem. It's also possible you've got a way of tracking survivors that isn't reliant on aura reading, like Doctor's shock or Legion's killer instinct, things of that nature.

    Also, that doesn't mean you should drop the chase instantly whenever you realise Shadow Step is present. Only if you know the survivor you're chasing is going to make good use of it, or if they're leading you away from the rest of the objectives.

    Basically, the counter play to Shadow Step is to use your brain.

  • Fuzzels
    Fuzzels Member Posts: 449
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    Try running the house of pain when it has an active shadowstep and you might reconsider

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    Why on earth would you choose to run the house of pain? That's a dropped chase right there, that structure utterly sucks.

  • slendermansmoom
    slendermansmoom Member Posts: 544
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    or you could play doctor you can't hide from a doctor even with calm spirit

  • slendermansmoom
    slendermansmoom Member Posts: 544
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    especially if they have the infinite terror radius build like i run every game

    plus whisperers

  • slendermansmoom
    slendermansmoom Member Posts: 544
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    love when BHVR creates a new stealth perk and i don't have to care because you can't hide screaming it's always shown

  • TMNoThumbs
    TMNoThumbs Member Posts: 120
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    Wow. Convincing arguement. So the counter is to use one of a selection of trash tier killers, who struggle in most matchups againt a good surv team. Or as an altetnative i need to "use my brain" against a perk that robs me of base game tracking. Amazing. Also, is it necessary that you come off as insulting. Do you think it makes you sound smarter?

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    I'm really not- the point is that Shadow Step makes an already busted tile worse to run. Big woop? The house of pain needs fixing regardless of any perks survivors use to run it.

    My point is that if you struggle to track without scratch marks, there are a lot of tools in the game to aid with that- again, because removing scratch marks is a very reasonable challenge. It's strong, but it's not unbeatable, it really just feels like a lot of people want to be able to "counter" new things by not changing anything about the way they play the game.

    I'm not trying to be insulting, and I apologise; that was a little too glib.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    You were straight up rude and disrespectful. End of. I didn't direct anything at you, but you chose to do so to me.

    But sure. Its laughable that you think all of the benefits boons offer is not a significant switch in balance to the survivors. I'm experiencing it every match. So how about maybe listening to the experiences of a killer instead of choosing to be rude and nasty.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,274
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    I tend to respond in kind, and you can hardly deny that you've had a rather derisive tone this whole time. Still, change starts somewhere and I'll scale back, I apologise.

    I'm also experiencing it every match, and they are strong- but they're the kind of strength you change your approach to accommodate, not the kind of strength that breaks the game.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    I apologise too. Sorry for being a little too defensive myself. I'll go back and read your posts again with an open mind.

  • Rey_512
    Rey_512 Member Posts: 1,620
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    Survivor mains be like:

    mAKe BoOnS cOvER tHe wHolE MaP THen

  • drpynz
    drpynz Member Posts: 246
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    When the game first came out, scratch marks were an integral part of the base game. The game is literally built around part of this. People have stated other perks offer the same thing and that is true. Lucky break offers it, but it's one time and for one survivor. This perk benefits every survivor. Also, the argument people have that it takes 14 seconds to boon a totem and how much time that wastes the survivor when they could be doing a gen. What about the number of people who lose the killer when they are injured and dodge a hook, the survivors that run to that area and heal themselves while others are on gens. You have to fill out the whole equation to get the result the boon totems are very strong. They are too strong. There isn't an argument that can be made the way they are implemented today that can suggest otherwise.

    People suggesting good killers don't need scratch marks is bull. When a killer loses a line of sight how do they find out the general direction of the survivor? Remember, the base game was built around this concept. The best killers can't read survivors' minds 100% of the time. They look at crows, scratch marks and grass, and a general whereabouts the survivor may have gone. Not being able to see aura's and scratch marks is so game-breaking. I don't know if people that are supporting it saying it's not strong or git good are being disingenuous or baiting, its objectively game-breaking.