No Scratch Marks, No Aura, no Med kit? No problem!
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Right, but that just means that CoH is the same as the survivor bringing a medkit, which they're freely able to do at any given time. This is where CoH is basically just any other healing perk; it's no stronger than other methods of self-heal in the game, save for when you misuse Self Care on its own lmao
CoH is only worrisomely strong when it's used by teammates with coordination who are utilising the speed buff properly, not when some rando decides to use the free medkit.
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You understand no one needs to bring in a med-kit now. right? this lends to everyone bringing in flashlights, toolboxes, maps whatever. This also stacks with other perks light We'll make it, med kit speeds and add-ons. I'm not sure if people are being disingenuous or really don't see the issue here. Admittingly, it is fun being the survivor playing these perks when the killer gets 2 or 3 "hooks" a game and then teabag at the exit and then BM the killer in chat about how he tunneled and made the game un-fun and they are like, "#########, I didn't even sacrifice anyone" and then tell them you're going to report them for not validating your feelings. It will get old and at some point and no one is going to play the killer. It's really taken a broken game and set fire to it.
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Oh sorry, I mixed that up. But 14 seconds is STILL quite some time, if you do that repeatedly bc the killer iq quick in snuffing it, you will lose the game.
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Boon's are fine honestly. As a killer, if I chase someone through the range of a boon and lose scratch marks, I make a note to come back to check the area if I lose chase/ down them. If survivors are healing in seconds, it's the same idea.
They take 24 seconds for a survivor to set up and 2/3 seconds to snuff out.
Now if BHVR adds a Boon that doubles as a mini Prove Thyself... Well get the pitchforks
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Fair but a warning: This is the DBD forums, people don't like change here, and people don't like it when the Survivor meta changes, at all. They recite streamers' opinions like religious people as well.
People were told how to counter Legion, some very smart people explained how to turn the old Spirit "50/50s" into 80/20s. It all fell on deaf ears.
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The problem with boons is the fact that they can be relit a stupid amount of times, far more than old undying could
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This. It takes 2 seconds to snuff a totem, and 12 to reignite them. Snuffing a boon twice is the equivalent of 1 Pop charge. 12+12=24, Pop reduces around 25 seconds of gen progress.
You don't need to go looking as well, just snuff a totem if it's nearby a gen being done or if you see it. Survivors will waste time reapplying them, which buys you time.
I would actually argue that Boons are like Thrill of the Hunt and not Undying: You can turn them against the other side if you know what you're doing.
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I'd love boons that reduce sounds tbh. Footstep sounds are extremely loud and Reid is Jeff 2.0 in terms of being loud when injured. No scratch marks does not mean anything when there are 3 other ways of tracking Survivors. I'd argue that Shadow Step needs a buff if anything, since it's not as good as Circle and not worth running.
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Survivors waste 12 seconds blessing a Dull Totem. Snuff two Boons total and you basically just bought the same amount of time a Pop charge would.
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I do agree with Shadow Step needing a buff. A killer who understands how to track survivors will have zero issues with countering that perk.
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Yeah, exactly. It doesn't really feel worthy of being a Boon with all of the limitations of a Boon, since it's not useful/strong.
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No one would use it and bhvr would have wasted their time making it
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I posted the second part of this in another thread earlier but that one got banished to the wastelands of the suggestions forum to never be read again. I very much need to post my declaration here for people to scoff at now so in like three months I get to toss out some epic "told you so," albeit in a haze of bitterness without even the mild satisfaction of being right given how the horrendous imbalance it inflicts upon this already troublesome game will ultimately plague all of us who enjoy both sides of this game.
First an extra observation though:
Perks that are much too punishing for new/learning survivors to handle: old ruin (for its skill checks that are basically the same as any skill checks)
Perks clearly of no concern for new/learning killers to handle: a freaking AOE scratchmark deadzone that's effectively infinite & applied party-wide so each survivor with the perk can compound coverage zones that totally remove one of the most fundamental gameplay mechanics the game was designed around, and finally providing insane synergy with iron will as something that's already meta level powerful for eliminating one of the other most important means of tracking.
Now consider this delightful little perk design with the same weight of balance all the other scratchmark hiding perks get and you'll find their strengths to be gauged in seconds, extremely situational, and exclusive to the perk holder. But hey toss all that out and I'm sure the perk is still totes fair and not a scummy move to sell more DLC.
I'm calling it straight here: boons are the future for as long as they go unchecked here. This is the new meta.
The community as a whole just hasn't figured it out yet because the intangible results of what's not happening over on the killer side aren't so readily apparent. That will change in time though. It's all downhill once players start catching on to the real power boons hold & the time delay required to grind them.
The people trying to claim boons are even remotely balanced are either (A) in extreme denial, or (B) outright lying to further their own agenda favoring something as stupidity OP and broken as boons obviously are.
There's zero value in "stepping away from the stale meta" if the only reason people leave behind their extremely powerful perks is because now they'd hardly ever use them when it's often easier to outright avoid getting downed by usually ducking into one of the hide & seek zones.
All the claims about boons actually "wasting time from gens" are as intellectually dishonest as any claim could be. One survivor wasting 12 seconds on a totem they stumbled across is nigh ALWAYS going to break even with the time it'd takes the killer to track down & snuff that totem. For a competent player, that's basically your worst case scenario. Even a single boon usage from there is a net gain as far as the time tradeoff goes, where the value generated wasting killer's time is so, so, so, so much more valuable than survivor time required. Advocating for boons outright ignores this game being 4 vs 1, not to mention the extreme impact of just 2/16 well placed perks can have on the 4 survivors. The average gains per boon applied are a whole lot more valuable with these being the "risks" to the reward potential.
To consider boons balanced basically requires imagining them in some vacuum so "time away from gens" can be treated as pure cost. In truth, it's blatantly an investment (and an incredibly secure and insanely lucrative one at that) generating returns by impeding killer gameplay that would otherwise (and indisputably) pull more survivors off generators for far longer. A game might go on longer with the boon impacts pushing the survivors back into their safety hubs rather than slamming gens, but unlike typical games the killer isn't gaining footing the longer those games go on. It's almost the opposite, where survivors are free to carve down gens while largely containing killers to failed chases and reverted health states in a stalemate. Boons are so much more powerful than people realize or want to admit.
Hell, now I'm seeing the boon-boosters fall back on conjecture and anecdotal evidence of people being stupid with boons, as if stupidity is some unique, inherent challenge to setting boons. Sorry, but no---the mere possibility of any given person spending the whole match looking for a totem only to end up distracted by the shiny until the killer gets them isn't the same as a meaningful drawback. That's selectively deploying the same excuse applicable to anything; I mean every killer is underpowered for a player bad enough that they can't hit anyone. You've got to assume reasonable competence when talking balance.
Some people are behind the curve now due to newness/ownership/grind/etc, but that won't be forever. Barring major changes, the OP's game is the new meta we'll see.
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Well BHVR couldn't have anything that might adversely affect their shiny new Boon Totems...
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Its good but its not OP its fine but if good survivors know how to use it they are strong but most of the time random will destroy totems and make her perk useless and also this perk is good for survivors because it helps lose the chase and have a chance
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THRILL OF THE HUNT = PROBLEM SOLVED with a GENERIC/BASE KILLER PERK.
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"Do them bones" is not at all realistic.
As survivor, you do 5 bones and you never have to think about it again.
As killer, you could do a million bones and still have bones to do. The fact they can relight infinitely is just mind boggling.
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The killer should be able to do a longer stomp or whatever to turn a boon into a hex.
That way there's a back and forth and at least a real risk for putting up a boon.
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I would do that
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Boons are catching on way faster than I'd expected.
Figured there're be more delay from needing BP to level them & some players waiting for sale, but with recent blood points codes and this tome challenge encouraging people to buy right away... boon aren't the future meta: they are meta.
BHVR is clearly raking in mad cash atm... but that's probably not a very good thing if it further incentivizes them towards short term cash grab decisions at the sake of long term stability, balanced gameplay, and real growth :-/
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Do what I do...
Randomly select a survivor on the match screen, find them in game, and do EVERYTHING in your power to get that specific person out the game by any means.
Fun way to play.
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I cant understand who think this is balanced... you can see the totem aura is ridiculous OP,
So since it's not enough as a killer I should take down the survivors fast because 2 or 3 generators pop up mmmm but yeah is a great idea cant see scratch marks, gimme them more tools to extend the chase🤡
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The line about cleansing the same had 4 times being a big much
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Right, got it.
Doesn't really apply since that line was about Hexes and not Boons, but I see the association they're trying to draw even if it's not working.
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So you think hiding scratchmarks isn't strong. I'd like a shot of whatever you are drinking!
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You're right. The person arguing it isn't strong needs to beam back to earth ASAP.
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I didn't say it wasn't strong, I said it wasn't that strong- which it isn't. There are killers with hidden scratch marks as part of their basekit, because it's the perfect option for making a chase a little harder without making it impossible to win.
Straight up, if you find yourself incapable of tracking a survivor just because there aren't any scratch marks (with exceptions for maps where that is genuinely difficult, like Lery's), that's a you problem.
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So we should just get rid of scratch marks then? If we don't need them? Sure. Not that strong.
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Did I say that? Or did I say that removing scratch marks is a reasonable challenge for a perk to provide?
Some perks already did this, you know. Most people agree they're kinda bad (except buffed Lucky Break, which also has a very strong secondary effect) because it's a small benefit, typically with weird requirements.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on0
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Buddy, being able to track without scratch marks is not "elite", it's a really basic skill to learn. Now, when Shadow Step is combined with other stealth perks, it does get nasty, but the likelihood of the whole team bringing a full stealth build is pretty low- and it means their perks aren't doing anything else, at least.
You should be more worried about Circle of Healing if you play a killer that doesn't have an instadown. Shadow Step is much easier to play around and a much more fair challenge.
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Scratch marks are the only reliable way to track survivors around loops when you cant see or hear them. In a meta where iron will is common how are you supposed to track an injured surv in the boon totem area? It IS that strong. There is no real counter play.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on1
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Alright, let's address that. Let's assume that a survivor has Iron Will and they're inside the Shadow Step radius- the first question is, where are they? Plenty of totem spots don't really provide that much ability to use that, so we're also going to assume that it's somewhere reasonable like a jungle gym.
That's the one situation where you do want to break the totem in chase- or just leave and chase someone else, which is already a reasonable decision against someone using Iron Will anyway. Don't waste your time on survivors that'll take ages to down, regardless of Shadow Step.
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Don't be sarcastic at me and I won't be passive aggressive to you, simple as that.
A new mechanic is always going to have a learning curve. You're always going to have to learn to play around something that gets added to the game, otherwise there's no point to adding it to the game at all.
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So you are saying the counter play is to drop the chase. Wow, what was i thinking. I guess having to give up chase on an entire section of the map isn't THAT strong. Not like killers dont already have to do that on certain busted map tiles. Say, we should give survivors active camoflauge too. As sight is now the only way to track survivors, cant have that.
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ONE counter play is to drop the chase. Another is to snuff the totem. It's also possible you've got a way of tracking survivors that isn't reliant on aura reading, like Doctor's shock or Legion's killer instinct, things of that nature.
Also, that doesn't mean you should drop the chase instantly whenever you realise Shadow Step is present. Only if you know the survivor you're chasing is going to make good use of it, or if they're leading you away from the rest of the objectives.
Basically, the counter play to Shadow Step is to use your brain.
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Try running the house of pain when it has an active shadowstep and you might reconsider
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Why on earth would you choose to run the house of pain? That's a dropped chase right there, that structure utterly sucks.
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or you could play doctor you can't hide from a doctor even with calm spirit
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especially if they have the infinite terror radius build like i run every game
plus whisperers
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You're dodging the point.
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love when BHVR creates a new stealth perk and i don't have to care because you can't hide screaming it's always shown
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Wow. Convincing arguement. So the counter is to use one of a selection of trash tier killers, who struggle in most matchups againt a good surv team. Or as an altetnative i need to "use my brain" against a perk that robs me of base game tracking. Amazing. Also, is it necessary that you come off as insulting. Do you think it makes you sound smarter?
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I'm really not- the point is that Shadow Step makes an already busted tile worse to run. Big woop? The house of pain needs fixing regardless of any perks survivors use to run it.
My point is that if you struggle to track without scratch marks, there are a lot of tools in the game to aid with that- again, because removing scratch marks is a very reasonable challenge. It's strong, but it's not unbeatable, it really just feels like a lot of people want to be able to "counter" new things by not changing anything about the way they play the game.
I'm not trying to be insulting, and I apologise; that was a little too glib.
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You were straight up rude and disrespectful. End of. I didn't direct anything at you, but you chose to do so to me.
But sure. Its laughable that you think all of the benefits boons offer is not a significant switch in balance to the survivors. I'm experiencing it every match. So how about maybe listening to the experiences of a killer instead of choosing to be rude and nasty.
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I tend to respond in kind, and you can hardly deny that you've had a rather derisive tone this whole time. Still, change starts somewhere and I'll scale back, I apologise.
I'm also experiencing it every match, and they are strong- but they're the kind of strength you change your approach to accommodate, not the kind of strength that breaks the game.
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I apologise too. Sorry for being a little too defensive myself. I'll go back and read your posts again with an open mind.
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Survivor mains be like:
mAKe BoOnS cOvER tHe wHolE MaP THen
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When the game first came out, scratch marks were an integral part of the base game. The game is literally built around part of this. People have stated other perks offer the same thing and that is true. Lucky break offers it, but it's one time and for one survivor. This perk benefits every survivor. Also, the argument people have that it takes 14 seconds to boon a totem and how much time that wastes the survivor when they could be doing a gen. What about the number of people who lose the killer when they are injured and dodge a hook, the survivors that run to that area and heal themselves while others are on gens. You have to fill out the whole equation to get the result the boon totems are very strong. They are too strong. There isn't an argument that can be made the way they are implemented today that can suggest otherwise.
People suggesting good killers don't need scratch marks is bull. When a killer loses a line of sight how do they find out the general direction of the survivor? Remember, the base game was built around this concept. The best killers can't read survivors' minds 100% of the time. They look at crows, scratch marks and grass, and a general whereabouts the survivor may have gone. Not being able to see aura's and scratch marks is so game-breaking. I don't know if people that are supporting it saying it's not strong or git good are being disingenuous or baiting, its objectively game-breaking.
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